Open mind, open wallet, about Blue Chip picks

[DavidKOS]

Well, even after all I've said about being happy using regular picks, a buddy and I were discussing Blue Chip picks and he had gotten some of the traditional shape one, and raved about them. Yes, the ones with a pointy end like a normal Fender guitar pick.

So I ordered one to try, mostly for Gypsy jazz guitar, but who knows?

Like the many users on this forum, my friend said that he used the same Tortex picks for years, ones I use at times, and after the Blue Chip, the old pick "felt like it had velcro on it!"

So I opened the wallet to try, big spender, one. We'll see.

I also got a couple of the cheaper but very popular Gypsy Jazz guitar Wegen picks.

3 picks that cost more than any other bags of picks I ever bought!

[Relio]

When I was first in the market for a high end guitar, I played many with a cheap fender pick. At one nice store I the Chicago suburbs (full of Collings, Bourgois, Santa Cruz, Martin, H&D, etc.) the owner gave me his personal BC to try them out, and wow, what a difference. The tone and volume the BC pulled out of the guitars was much more pleasing to my ear. For mandolin I like Wegen and BC. Currently, I'm using a BC.

[Bob Clark]

I have been a BC skeptic for a long time now. I have wanted to keep using cheap picks because they are, well, cheap. That way I could have an abundance them so if I misplace them from time-to-time, no big deal. I have used a number of mid-priced picks as well, but my go-to picks were Jim Dunlop Celluloid Heavies.

My current instructor is a BC user and suggested I give his a try. I tried it and was quickly convinced that there really are benefits to BC picks. I bought one (a TP50) and now I use nothing else. I have been won over. I went from long-term skeptic to convert pretty quickly once I actually gave one a try. That's my experience, but YMMV.

Best wishes,

Bob

[Douglas McMullin]

All I can say is that your mileage may vary. I have owned three BC picks, and have given (yes given) all three away. The new owners are thrilled, but I was never happy with the tone I got or feel of that material. I know others who have had similar experiences, so you cant expect universal appreciation.

I should add that I do not regret getting them. Given all the discussion, it was good to try a few variations out myself to see if I would like them. Obviously I didn't convert, but now I know and they made nice little gifts.

[Hudmister]

I should add that I do not regret getting them. Given all the discussion, it was good to try a few variations out myself to see if I would like them. Obviously I didn't convert, but now I know and they made nice little gifts.

Nice gifts indeed. Since you didn't convert what might you're preferred pick be?

[Douglas McMullin]

I think my standard is a Wegen M200. Thick and fairly blunt all all three points. Something about that material works for me.

[grassrootphilosopher]

I think it depends on the instrument and on your playing style (also). I´ve seen Steve Kaufman (3 time Winfield guitar contest winner - in succession) use a - what I would call flimsy (0.8 mm?) - pick that sounded great with him.

The better the instrument is, the more will the pick change the tone.

I have a BC. I tried it out. It´s a normal TD 40. I did not like it at all on my expensive mandolin. It sounded flabby. It did not produce a nice tone. It sounded like plastic etc. My trusty old Strad-O-Lin did not take kindly to the BC either. I usually use a Clayton Tortex Ultem 1.(something) mm pick. It did not do the trick on my 40ies Gibson and not on my new expensive guitar. It does well on my 1990 Martin D-16M. This is whining on a high level though. The comparison has been a Tortoise shell pick (lovely for my guitars both old and new (expensive) and my lesser but loved D-16M, not so much on my mandolins), a Wegen pick (a regular bluegrass pick does a very fine job on all mandolins at about 1.2 mm) a Red Bear pick (I love the style B with a bevel [this B style is the best pick size for my taste]) and a Hense pick (https://www.martinsmusikkiste.eu/zubehoer/plektren-picks/hense/4769/hense-standard-h-happy-turtle-pick, which is as good as the Red Bear and easier to come by). Also my son´s guitar teacher, who is very particular concerning picks (being classically trained) loves the Wegen, despises the BC and also dislikes (much to my chagrin) the Hense pick. He plays a (more expensive) Striebel (http://www.striebel-gitarrenbau.de/Striebelguitars/Flattops.html) guitar (nice, even though I like mine better).

My go to pick on my expensive mandolin is a Wegen Jazz (given to me by my son´s guitar teacher who couldn´t deal with the thickness; it is very clear to my ears; before this one I would - and still could - use a regular Wegen Bluegrass Pick 1.(some) mm). I just looked up what pick I was given. The Wegen Jazz pick has 3.5 mm. That´s an atrocity! The bluegrass police should bann such thickness. But it sounds good. It is just thick. I equally like the Hense pick. That´s very close to TS. True enough the BC does not wear.

Is it not funny how we all try to get better by trying new fangled things out (it´s fun, too).

[DavidKOS]

I have owned three BC picks, and have given (yes given) all three away. The new owners are thrilled, but I was never happy with the tone I got or feel of that material.

It's good to know not everyone is happy with them, thanks for the other opinion.


I think my standard is a Wegen M200. Thick and fairly blunt all all three points. Something about that material works for me.

I'll be trying Wegen too, but something more pointy, I can't play with round picks.



I think it depends on the instrument and on your playing style....
I have a BC. I tried it out. It´s a normal TD 40. I did not like it at all on my expensive mandolin.
.... I usually use a Clayton Tortex Ultem 1.(something) mm pick.....
My go to pick on my expensive mandolin is a Wegen Jazz ..... 3.5 mm. That´s an atrocity! The bluegrass police should bann such thickness.

I don't play much Bluegrass but a 3.5mm pick should only be for gypsy jazz guitar, and only for those that like REALLY fat picks. I can play happily with something thinner!

My go-to for a while has been the Tortex or Ultex standard shape picks (or the even pointier ones), .73 to 1 mm or so, and have used special classical mandolin picks too.

My biggest concern is that I can play with almost anything except those round picks....so I don't want to get so that I have to have a specific pick to play.

However, I've tried all sorts of picks and even though I've given these boutique picks a cursory try here and there I need to seriously test them and see if they are worth the extra expense for me.

BTW I order the standard Fender shape Blue Chip.

[hank]

Something that I have brought up before in similar threads is that BC's because of their unique slickness over the strings are changed dramatically by bevel angle and shape. I experimented with different bevels and shapes and found the rounder the bevel shape the more the pick seemed to be pushed outward requiring more force to drive the strings. I never liked rounded picks much anyway but found them impossible in the blue chip material. It was like the pick was sliding over the string instead of bending it. The more pointed and sharper the bevel the more this effect was cancelled out. I think this is why Chris thile's design is so popular. I still feel like I went from driving a bread truck to a Ferrari when I switched from rounded tip Red Bears to the CT BC's. I bought my first one new but waited to buy my other three used in the classifieds here.

[Big Joe]

My favorite is real TS, but I stopped using them about a decade ago. I use a BC TAD 40 that I've had for about 8 years. I use it on electric guitar, acoustic guitar, mandolin, ukulele. And even occasionally banjo. This pick works for all of these instruments for me. I do have a backup, but it just sits in my box. When you pay that much for a pick you just don't lose it.

[Mandobart]

I also prefer my Wegen M200's to my blue chip picks.

[Mike Snyder]

Picks are good cheap fun. You can't do a steak dinner for $35, and a BC pick is like a forever kinda thing, if you like it. I really enjoy pulling out all of my mandolin picks and comparing the tone and playability. I'm talking big triangle, thick and thicker, medium pointy and all beveled right hand. Red Bears, Wegens and BCs mostly, and they all sound good or I would have traded them or given them away long ago. The BCs always end up tucked under the strings and ready to go when the case goes shut. A newly purchased A4 Black is going to need something thinner than the 80 or 100 that drive the F5 so well. Mike Black himself uses CT55, if I'm not mistaken. BC has a booth at the big festival at Winfield each September and I can test-drive all the picks as long as it takes. Great company, great people. Regardless of price the BC performs for me on two very different mandolins. The tenor banjo likes a Wegen TF 140, but that's off thread.

[DavidKOS]

I experimented with different bevels and shapes and found the rounder the bevel shape the more the pick seemed to be pushed outward requiring more force to drive the strings. I never liked rounded picks much anyway but found them impossible in the blue chip material. It was like the pick was sliding over the string instead of bending it. The more pointed and sharper the bevel the more this effect was cancelled out.

I can't really deal with a rounded edge pick, I have nothing to pluck, or as you say, "bend" the string, and that just changes my picking approach - and not for the better! Hence ordering both the Wegen and BC picks with a sharper playing edge.

Thanks for the tips about the bevels, guys.

[Ivan Kelsall]

The only picks that have really made any significant improvement in the tone/volume of my 3 mandolins, are the Dunlop Primetones & the picks i've tried have included 3 BC picks & i used to use Wegen picks myself. The Wegen Bluegrass picks sound decidedly dull compared to the Primetone picks & the 3 BC picks added nothing over the Wegens - for me.
It was Big Joe that suggested the DR strings on here quite a while back - i tried them,liked them & posted my thoughts on here.Since then quite a few folk have tried & liked them as well. The DR strings, coupled with the use of the Primetone picks has brought about a change in sheer 'punch' on my 3 mandolins that i never thought could happen - so Big Joe,my sincere thanks for your suggestion & bringing DR strings to my notice,
Ivan;)

[DavidKOS]

The only picks that have really made any significant improvement in the tone/volume of my 3 mandolins, are the Dunlop Primetones

That's another pick I need to try, and I like a lot of Dunlop products already, so Primetones are on my list to get too.

I also got a sample of some V picks.

[Joey Anchors]

I've been having great luck with a 2.2mm PaPa's faux ivoroid, but my aim for a pick is a full time with a softer attack and rounded highs which this pick does very well.

One day I plan on trying a BC, RB, and Wegen.

[Douglas McMullin]

It's good to know not everyone is happy with them, thanks for the other opinion.

Have fun with it. Unhappy is a bit strong of a descriptor. I certainly had fun testing them out, otherwise I would not have tried a few. In all cases there were good traits, but after the initial excitement wore off, I always found myself reaching for a different pick when I grabbed my mandolin. There are so many subjective factors at work, you can't assume and just have to find out for yourself. I hope you love it!

[hank]

Some interesting points are being introduced into this discussion of pick choice. I usually think of things like the volume of unwanted pick ticking sound, tone brightness and maneuverability but Ivan and Joey bring two other variables to the discussion of "punch" and "softer attack". If I understand the meaning of these terms they are opposites. Ivan also brings string choice into the discussion feeling that it is a combination of the two, pick and strings that deliver the "punch" that he was looking for. These are interesting observations but ones that are new to me. I have always associated "punch"and "softer attack" to the players ability and technique coupled with the attributes of the mandolin being played. I'm interested in learning more about how factors(I attribute to the mandolin type and quality of build)like response and sustain are affected by string and perhaps pick choice. To my way of thinking increased sustain would benefit most F hole instruments and increased response would benefit most oval hole instruments.

[terzinator]

BlueChips are definitely worth trying out, and low risk, as Matt Goins has a money-back guarantee. Plus, they're pretty easy to sell here on the forum, even if you've had them past BC's trial period.

I've tried quite a few, and still own four. (TAD60, TAD60-3R, CT55, TAD80)

I'd say the TAD60 is my go-to, but sometimes I do find myself reaching for a wegen trimus 250, depending on my mood.

[Polecat]

I've never owned a BC, though had a couple of opportunities to try them out. I remain moderately unimpressed; they do what a pick should do, do it well, but do not strike me as better the D'Andrea ProPlecs, ones made of "Tortex" (whatever that is), or the various galalith picks (Helios Artis and Hense, bought, and any number of home made examples) that I've tried. IMHO it has more to do with the shape of the picking part and how you use it than the material.
One thing I do not understand is bevels - if you consistently hit the strings with the plectrum at the same angle they might make sense, but does anybody do that? I deliberately change the angle of attack and where I hit the string to provide tonal variation whilst playing, and I'm sure most other people do (someone recently posted a link to a Mike Marshall tremolo video in another thread where he also spoke briefly of this). If you do this, a bevel is counter-productive, a rounded profile makes it much easier to produce reproducible results. Or am I missing something? When I notice my picks developing too much of a bevel, I reach for the emery paper and reshape them (which is not often - galalith wears very slowly; I play maybe 15 to 20 hours a week).

[terzinator]

One thing I do not understand is bevels - if you consistently hit the strings with the plectrum at the same angle they might make sense, but does anybody do that? I deliberately change the angle of attack and where I hit the string to provide tonal variation whilst playing, and I'm sure most other people do
I'm not nearly that good. If I do it, I'm sure it's accidentally.

But of course, now I need to try a non-beveled BC.

[Polecat]

I'm not nearly that good...

Don't underestimate yourself, Chris. One of the reasons I use tone differences in my playing is that I am not technically a very good mandolin player, especially given that I've been playing mandolin for around 35 years - if you can't play blindingly fast and impress with 150% accurate timing you start looking for other ways to express your individuality. Also, given my playing style (I mainly use the mandolin, both in a band context and solo, as an accompaniment to singing and for short instrumental passages), I find it useful to "change the tone" to emotionally underline what I'm trying to achieve.

[fatt-dad]

when the Blue Chip came out, I was shocked at the $35.00 price tag! I had been using some version of clayton, ultex, ultem, tortix, 1.4, 1.0, triangle, teardrop, etc. for years. I'm sure I had the Dawg when it first came out (i.e., c. 1984). About all I knew was I didn't like the overly-rounded shape of the Dawg and on the teardrop, usually used the upper corner. The big triangle was about right. . . Meh? I also knew I seemed to keep picks forever. Straight out the gate, I tried the CT55. Loved it. Also found the Wegan with the holes drilled through it. I like that too. Now, I'm playing classical duets, Celtic and such with a guitar-playing buddy, I'm on the Blue Chip Large Jazz 40. I like that better than the Dunlop jazz picks. (I'm thinking 206 or 207 is the jazz point?) I really like the Blue Chip Jazz 40 on the Heavy Thomastiks on my A3. The CT55 is a great all-round pick, but so is that Wegan TF140.

f-d

[DavidKOS]

Thansk to everyone for the further input. I have a whole bunch of picks to try - and I'm digging out old ones from my collection and comparing them, too.

[mandroid]

like 2nd hand Rose from 2nd avenue , the classifieds traffics in 2nd hand BC's .
So my test subjects came pre owned.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hank - The string brand/gauge + pick type,are the 2 main ingredients in determining how our mandolins ( or any other 'picked' string instrument) will sound. Our 'personal input' is how we play with any combo. I want my 3 mandolins to be able to cope in a band situation,despit not playing with any other musicians regularly,i want them to be ''ready to go'' when i do. To that end,i've tried several string brands & gauges & none worked for me until i took Big Joe's advice & tried the DR brand & what a total revelation they were. Even so,the Wegen Bluegrass picks still sounded 'muted' to my ears. As a banjo player,i know full well what it takes to compete (or try to) with one of those animals, & it wasn't until i took somebody else's advice (another Cafe member), & tried the Primetone picks,that the whole thing came together. The 1.3mm thick Primetones worked superbly well,but i decided to go for some 1.5mm thick ones & they work even better on my mandolins. So,right now,i've got exactly what i've been looking for.
All mandolin makes,being different,will respond to any given brand of string/gauge in a different way = obvious. So it's up to us to try things out for ourselves. Two of my UK Cafe member friends tried the DR's out to see if they liked them (what other way is there ?) & one sent me a one word e-mail back - "WOW !!" - he's still using them.
Another UK Cafe member friend,has a glorious Heiden "A" style on which he'd installed Thomastik strings when i first played it. I was decidedly underwhelmed by the tone & volume. He switched over to J74's & it sounded better,but with the current DR MD11's on it,it's a whole new mandolin. I have DR MD11's on my Ellis "A" style & it sounds wonderful. The only other string that i've tried that sounded as good (but without the 'punch' that DR's have), are the GHS A270's that Cafe member Willie told me about.They have to be one of the sweetest toned strings around. No wonder they're Tom Ellis's 'go to' string.
Sorry to have diverted the OP's original topic,but it pays to experiment. There is no ''one size (make) fits (suits) all'' when it comes to strings & picks - but we all know that,;)
Ivan:mandosmiley:

[DavidKOS]

Hank - The string brand/gauge + pick type,are the 2 main ingredients in determining how our mandolins ( or any other 'picked' string instrument) will sound.
.....it wasn't until i took somebody else's advice (another Cafe member), & tried the Primetone picks,that the whole thing came together. The 1.3mm thick Primetones worked superbly well,but i decided to go for some 1.5mm thick ones & they work even better on my mandolins. So,right now,i've got exactly what i've been looking for.
All mandolin makes,being different,will respond to any given brand of string/gauge in a different way = obvious. So it's up to us to try things out for ourselves.
.......
it pays to experiment. There is no ''one size (make) fits (suits) all'' when it comes to strings & picks - but we all know that,;)
Ivan:mandosmiley:

Exactly so, no "one size fits all" for mandolin indeed.

First, do you play a traditional European flatback or bowlback design or a carved top post-Gibson? That sure makes a difference in choices of gear.

Next, do you prefer a pointed or round tip pick? and then the strings......

Those are the biggest places for mandolin paths to diverge.

Primetones, eh? One more pick to try.

ORDERED SOME

[bbaker2050]

I'm a big fan of the Primetones and the Wegen 140s.

[SincereCorgi]

I don't play much Bluegrass but a 3.5mm pick should only be for gypsy jazz guitar, and only for those that like REALLY fat picks. I can play happily with something thinner!

I love my white Wegen 3.5 for swing/gypsy guitar (no pickup) and I use it for bluegrass, too, since it's in my pocket already. CT55 is my mandolin pick, but I used to use a Wegen 140 or so. I'm starting to doubt my convictions, though... one of my students let me try a thinner Wegen and it sounded really good.

[k0k0peli]

I haven't tried most of that fancy stuff but I recently acquired a bag of Dunlop 207 Jazztones (on advise of a member here) and a couple of sculpted buffalo-horn picks of the same thickness, according to my handy micrometer. The Dunlops are louder than the bisons and click less. Do folks here think Primetones beat Jazztones?

[Bob Clark]

Do folks here think Primetones beat Jazztones?

I don't, but Primetones don't do it for me. Others love them, though, and I can certainly understand that. But again we get to the combination of player, mandolin, strings, musical style and pick. What works for one won't for another. Primetones just don't work for me.

That said, in addition to the BC I mentioned earlier, and the Jim Dunlop celluloid heavies (especially on my A/N flat-top), I like Proplecs quite a bit, the ones JazzMando sells. On the other hand, V-picks don't work for me.

It all comes down to the individual. In some ways, that's what makes it so much fun (and so much fun to post/read about).

So have fun with it!

[hank]

After my last post I paddled out into the cyber seas on my Google surf board in search of answers to my plucking questions. Dodging the abundant sales flotsam I drifted to the revelation that a pluck from a narrow hard plectrum will excite the upper harmonic more than a broad soft plectrum. The shape of the tip is important because it determines the width of the plucking part. This is why the rounded tip dawg picks of softer plastic sound darker than the more pointed very hard Blue Chip CT55 or thick pointed tip jazz style plectrum.
Ripe with plucking knowledge I hung ten on the gigantic cyber tidal wave of string choices. The internal dampening of the string material was the essence of the matter. Lighter gauge strings being easier on the fingers have a brighter sound but produce less volume and sustain, and may not bring out all the resonance and tonal richness that your mandolin can produce. Tin or chrome plated high tensile strength spring steel is the standard for unwound strings and the core of wound strings. The harder the wound wire the brighter the tone with bronze alloys favored for their strong projection and balanced tonal range. Flat wound strings generally have longer sustain with less ring than round wound strings with descriptions like"clear,brilliant, woody or non metallic tone with less punch or projection". Ivan's favorite the DR strings use Rare phosphor bronze windings using compression winding with descriptions like"crisp, warm, standout"(projection?). One of my favorites, Sam Bush Monel wound strings produce a dryer more woody tone that isn't as bright as bronze and bronze alloys.
In conclusion I am convinced that I absolutely don't understand everything I know about whatever it is I'm talking about.

[DavidKOS]

a pluck from a narrow hard plectrum will excite the upper harmonic more than a broad soft plectrum. The shape of the tip is important because it determines the width of the plucking part. This is why the rounded tip dawg picks of softer plastic sound darker than the more pointed very hard Blue Chip CT55 or thick pointed tip jazz style plectrum.
.

I much prefer the full-range tone color of the sharp point. Those high harmonics are where the mandolin lives tonally speaking, and it's characteristic of the traditional Italian mandolin.

So the Blue Chip TAD 35 arrived today.

Initial impression - excellent flatpick, nice feel and intrinsic sound, meaning not much pick noise, and seems to be a fine pick for use on my jazz archtop.

It's a bit thin for Gypsy jazz but would work if needed, but it a slam-dunk for regular jazz playing.

Not bad on the mandolin, either.

Is it worth 35 bucks? That will be determined by how well it wears. I can wear down a pick easily if the material is too soft. this looks like it will last a long time, so we'll see!

So far, I'm very pleased but not yet convinced there are the "best" picks ever.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Hank above - "In conclusion I am convinced that I absolutely don't understand everything I know about whatever it is I'm talking about.". Join the club buddy !.;)
From Bob Clark - " Primetones don't do it for me". No single brand/shape/thickness of pick will suit all mandolins/strings/players - why should it (they) ?. Some folk on here swear by Dawg & Golden gate picks & similar rounded,quite thick ones,but they kill anything resembling tone & volume in any of my 3 instruments - so be it !. By trying various strings/picks,i've found my favourite combo. as others have for their instruments. Very often,it's only when we meet other players with ''different'' combos. of strings/picks,that we begin to question whether we're quite right in our own choice. I was convinced that my Weber pick (it came with my Fern) sounded great until i tried a Wegen Bluegrass pick belonging to a friend. Again, i was certain that the Wegen was 'the best' until i tried a Dunlop Primetone pick ( i'd changed to DR strings at this time) & right now it's exactly what i've been looking for. I'm probably putting my foot firmly in my mouth here,but i can't see any other pick coming along to make things even 'better',& yes,i have tried BC picks. Maybe the best part of all this,is that for the first time,i'm not tempted to try any other combo. I think i'll make the old Porter Wagoner song ''Satisfied Mind' my theme tune,:grin:
Ivan~:>

[k0k0peli]

I think i'll make the old Porter Wagoner song ''Satisfied Mind' my theme tune,:grin:
Actually it's by Lee Hayes of the Weavers. But I digress. Different picks for different situations. I love my Dunlap 0.038 picks because they're the lightest, thinnest around, just right for practicing at night without waking anyone, and appropriate for the banjo-mandolin in non-confrontational situations. (I still have the felt pick Grandpa used on this banjolin at night.) But I find the picks I cut from credit cards are a bit light.

[DavidKOS]

http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/9i4/ore/9i4ore6iE.jpeg

Anyone ever try these Clayton Stone picks? So far these work for me for gypsy jazz guitar. So do other picks...the Wegen has not arrived yet.

Anyway the Clayton Stone pick comes in several sizes up to 3mm, I'm using 2- 2.5mm ones. They're cheap - like a 6 pack for $2.99.

http://www.steveclayton.com/sstone.php

They have a grip molded in - usually I'm not happy with that but this one works. So far they seem to wear well, and have a pleasing attack but nothing extreme.

I haven't heard Clayton mentioned much during pick discussions.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From k0k0peli - "Actually it's by Lee Hayes of the Weavers". It may very well be,but of over 2 dozen versions of the song,the one that was a hit (sort of) even here in the UK,was by Porter Wagoner,in the same way that ''It's Nice to Go Travellin' " is a 'Frank Sinatra song', despite being written by Sammy Kahn & Jimmy Van Heusen,
Ivan