Fiddle Tunes and Keys

[busstopeddy]

I am coming to the mando from the guitar where I have played a given song in various keys to accomodate a vocalist. Usually by transposing as I don't use a capo.

It seems that the fiddle tunes I am learning are in keys that take advantage of open strings. It also seems they are always played for the most part in the same key. For instance Blackberry Blossom in G.

My question: Have you ever encountered a situation where a popular fiddle tune was not being played in it's usual key.

Thanks

[mandroid]

Instead its the 5 string banjo , the retuning to another key for those is limiting.
shifting across the neck puts the tune into another key , g and c for example, start out on the neighboring string, and one is off on the other key, beginning on the one, a d #is on the a, a g is on the d strings same fret, starts off headed the way fingering habit #sends you. then i find I have to find out what it resolves back to, the [I] again to figure out what key I really was in #
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

seems ....4# but not 4 flats, or 2 really....trad irish Sax?

[John Flynn]

Oh yeah. For instance, there are some fiddle tunes such as "Jimmy in the Swamp" that just sound great in the original key of C, but over the years has gotten shifted to G or D, where the tune just sounds so-so. One of the reasons I've encountered is that clawhammer banjo players are so key-specific that they want everything in G, D or A. I have had very good banjo players just refuse to learn a tune in C or even agree to play along with it.

[Peter Hackman]

It seems that the fiddle tunes I am learning are in keys that take advantage of open strings.

Thanks
Indeed they do, and sometimes in subtle ways.

One example is Brilliancy
(which has been
where the B part starts with 3 measures on the first string, taking advantage of the open
e (but not letting it ring). Incidentally, when I learned
the instrument, I was told to avoid open strings,
even in "easy" keys, as A or D. I still do
at times, and quite often I quickly damp an open string
so as to not have it interfere with succeeding notes.

A few traditional fiddle tunes exist in different versions,
in different keys. One example is Rickett's Hornpipe,
that some people play in D, others in F.
Another is Sailor's Hornpipe, most commonly played
in B flat, but quite often in G.

[GVD]

mandroid Posted

Instead its the 5 string banjo , the retuning to another key for those is limiting.
shifting across the neck puts the tune into another key , g and c for example, start out on the neighboring string, and one is off on the other key, beginning on the one, a d #is on the a, a g is on the d strings same fret, starts off headed the way fingering habit #sends you. then i find I have to find out what it resolves back to, the [I] again to figure out what key I really was in #

seems ....4# but not 4 flats, or 2 really....trad irish Sax?


Could you restate that in human terms? #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

GVD

[Dolamon]

If the tunes come from a piping tradition, or were most commonly played on pipes, you'll find tunes in A, F, occasionally E and sometimes even Bb. Some of the pipe tunes also seem to be played between any keys known to a sane man (or woman). I think that's part of the charm, or maybe it's only charm ...

As far as playing with a one or two key banjo player ... find a good tenor player and hang on for the ride.

[mandocrucian]

Have you ever encountered a situation where a popular fiddle tune was not being played in it's usual key.


Sure. Every time the guitar player or banjo player forgets their capoes, the A tunes are now in G, and the D tunes are played in C! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

For that reason, I advocate learning the tunes in at least a couple of keys (A&G, D&C, Em&Dm etc.) You'll be prepared for their inevitable "lack of preparedness", and besides, it'll make you a better player to have the sounds in your head not cemented to only one particular key and set of fingerings.

Also, some of the older D tunes were originally played in F, and there are fiddlers out there that adhere to that. "Fisher's Hornpipe" is a good example. #Actually, the color of the tune is warmer in F than it is in D, due to the subtle coloration of ringing open strings (including sympathertic vibration) against chords. In hte key of D, the open D and A strings are roots & 5ths, but in F, they are 3rds and 6ths. (G tunes can sound nice in Bb for those same reasons.)

NH

[AlanN]

Some two key variations:

Fisher's HP in D and F
Billy in the Lowground in C and D
Blackberry Blossom in G and A
Flop-Eared Mule in C and D
Bill Cheatum in G and A

ad infinitum...

[mandroid]

One player I know, A frailer, has 2 banjos tuned #differently

mando:same pattern of scale for 3 strings, upper 3 or lower 3 of 4 available.

gold star if you can play them in all keys.

[8ch(pl)]

What is a Capo?

[GVD]

8ch(pl) Posted

What is a Capo?

Etymology: Italian, head, chief, from Latin caput
: the head of a branch of a crime syndicate

GVD

I know i have read something like this on Mandolin sessions (http://www.mandolinsessions.com) Give it a look. The past issue i think they had something about fiddle tunes.

Not exactly sure though.

[fatt-dad]

Somewhere in a dark cave, protected by gargoyles, there is the holy parchment of original keys. We must abide by the secret codes.

f'd

[Peter Hackman]

Have you ever encountered a situation where a popular fiddle tune was not being played in it's usual key.


Sure. Every time the guitar player or banjo player forgets their capoes, the A tunes are now in G, and the D tunes are played in C! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

For that reason, I advocate learning the tunes in at least a couple of keys (A&G, D&C, Em&Dm etc.) You'll be prepared for their inevitable "lack of preparedness", and besides, it'll make you a better player to have the sounds in your head not cemented to only one particular key and set of fingerings.

Also, some of the older D tunes were originally played in F, and there are fiddlers out there that adhere to that. "Fisher's Hornpipe" is a good example. Actually, the color of the tune is warmer in F than it is in D, due to the subtle coloration of ringing open strings (including sympathertic vibration) against chords. In hte key of D, the open D and A strings are roots & 5ths, but in F, they are 3rds and 6ths. (G tunes can sound nice in Bb for those same reasons.)

NH
I would never play with a guitarist who depends on a capo.

[mandroid]

quote: #Somewhere in a dark cave, protected by gargoyles, there is the holy parchment of original keys. #We must abide by the secret codes.
perhaps so but its in gaeltacht,
and parchment seems to rot in wet climates. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
those were the dead sea scrolls, not North Sea scrolls, remember...