Blue Chip Pick for a bowlback?

[vic-victor]

Looks like Blue Chip didn't get around to a specific pick for a classical mandolin yet. From their current range the only one that could possibly be used for a bowlback appears to be BC jazz 35. I wonder if anyone tried it for that purpose?

[Beanzy]

i tried my CT55 on my Calace, but it was a dead loss in terms of tone and attack with way too much clicking going on.
I love the feel of the Meldin and am seriously considering buying a sheet to make my own shaped picks once the patent is confirmed.

[JeffD]

Often for my bowlback the best pick is a simple Fender Heavy. Whether its classical or blues or old time. Better than a BC or a Wegen or even a Primetone.

[fatt-dad]

very happy with the Blue Chip Jazz 40. Bach, Telemann, Celtic (O'Carolan), etc. Thomastik strings. Not a bowlback though!

f-d

[DavidKOS]

very happy with the Blue Chip Jazz 40. Bach, Telemann, Celtic (O'Carolan), etc. Thomastik strings. Not a bowlback though!

f-d

That may be the issue - NOT a bowlback.

Personally I get great results from a simple Pickboy mandolin pick:

http://www.amazon.com/Pickboy-Mandolin-Nytro-0-75mm-picks/product-reviews/B004UIFXRI

10 for $8.34

Some players complained that this pick was "too thin" and it may be if you have an archtop mandolin with long scale and 11's.

However for traditional bowlback and flatback mandolins, with light strings, this is an ideal pick for Italian and classical music.

It also has a pointed tip which is a MUST for good mandolin tone, round picks loose brilliance.

Personally I cannot play with those thick round post-Dawg picks.

$35 is also too much money for a pick, seriously, what's it made of, gold?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4183DwbCELL._SY300_.jpg

Another great choice is the Spike ultem pick:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BfZkvD2sL._SY355_.jpg

[T.D.Nydn]

I don't play a bowlback,but the best pick I found right now for speed,tone,control,etc. is the pickboy sharpe carbon 1.14.

[fatt-dad]

That may be the issue - NOT a bowlback.

<snip>

$35 is also too much money for a pick, seriously, what's it made of, gold?

[/IMG]

o.k. then. . . Remind me not to further contribute.

f-d

[DavidKOS]

o.k. then. . . Remind me not to further contribute.

f-d

I didn't mean it that way and I'm sorry if I put you off - the instruments just have a different response and feel.

Please contribute, and accept my apologies.

[JeffD]

$35 is also too much money for a pick, seriously, what's it made of, gold?


One time cost. How much was the mandolin?

Its all about the right tools for the right job. If the tool does what one wants, its better than gold.

The thing is, I find, a bowlback often requires a different tool.

If the Fender Heavy pick that I like for bowbacking were to cost $35.00, I might have to spend that much, because it makes that much or more difference.

I also like the Red Bear roman style picks, especially on the bowlback. They aren't cheap.

[DataNick]

I didn't mean it that way and I'm sorry if I put you off - the instruments just have a different response and feel.

Please contribute, and accept my apologies.

Very classy of you David!

I knew what spirit your comment was made, cause I know from previous interaction with you how passionate you are about bowlbacks and classical mandolin in general...a good thing my man!

[Jim Garber]

David is right about different responses on bowlbacks, even different bowlbacks like different picks.

However I generally use BC Jazz 35 (and some heavier) for my regular mandolins and I have played the 35 on my Embergher. I also use a Roman pick but, tho I own one, I do not like the Red Bear at all. It sounds dull to me and the shape is wrong compared to the imported one I do use. I alos made some of my own Roman picks from a sheet of Ultem plastic. BTW Eoin, can you afford a sheet of Meldin? Last time I checked a thin sheet comes to about $1300 (no time to translate to British currency, sorry). Besides that stuff is super hard -- how do you intend to work it?

Generally I use jazz-size picks on all my mandolins. I had use John Pearse ones for awhile.

[Matt Vuksinich]

I have--and found it to be wonderful: the closest feel and almost sound of the [unnamed material] which I prefer for all my mandolins (bowlback or arched top). I don't, however, play bluegrass.

[sblock]

If you're willing to try out some Blue Chip picks on a bowlback, you would probably look for these characteristics, I imagine:

1) A fairly thin pick (better for light strings). Blue Chips come in 35 thousandths (0.88 mm), which is about right.
2) A slender form with a fairly sharp point. That would mean the TD style (sort of an elongated teardrop) or the Jazz or Jazz Large styles.

So try the BC Jazz 35, the TD 35, or the BC Jazz LG 35. The Jazz picks are slightly pointier, but the TD picks have more of a bevel. You would have to try these out and see which one is too your liking (if either). Blue Chip will let you return any picks you don't like, which is a generous policy! Or, you can always sell them "used" (they rarely show any wear) on the Mandolin Cafe for just about $5 less then you paid for them. It's hard to go wrong with Blue Chip, IMO. And spending $35 is NOTHING compared to your other music-related expenses, including paying for the instrument itself. Remember, it will (almost) never wear down, so unless you lose the pick, it's a long-term investment. You will go through many hundreds of dollars' worth of strings by the time you replace a BC pick.

[DavidKOS]

David is right about different responses on bowlbacks, even different bowlbacks like different picks.

..... compared to the imported one I do use. I also made some of my own Roman picks from a sheet of Ultem plastic.....
Generally I use jazz-size picks on all my mandolins. I had use John Pearse ones for awhile.

What brand of imported Roman pick is that please?

I did make a couple out of various material, and I was under-impressed, perhaps I made the Roman pick somewhat wrong.

[DavidKOS]

I have--and found it to be wonderful: the closest feel and almost sound of the [unnamed material] which I prefer for all my mandolins (bowlback or arched top). I don't, however, play bluegrass.

Nor do I for the most part! I grew up playing Italian music, jazz, Klezmer, and classical.

[crisscross]

Personally I get great results from a simple Pickboy mandolin pick:


Funny you mention the Pickboy. Just yesterday, I recorded a little classical duet on my bowlback using this pick, and though it felt quite good playing it, the resulting sound is a little to thin for my taste. Guess I'll have to do it again using my Wolle pick. Not as expensive as a Blue Chip but at least a "blue chip";)http://trekel.de/de/zubehor/9058-wolleplektrumblau.html

[vic-victor]

Thanks everyone. I currently use Dogal No3 for a bowlback, but find them to be wearing out too quickly. I also have unbranded celluloid ones that are similar to pickboy and they are not too bad. But the point is to find somthing similar to unnamed material ones:) but more durable. Will give BlueChip Jazz 35 a try. It is a pity they don't make the ones for classical, hope they will one day. Beanzy, If you get around to making your own picks of Meldin, please let me know. Thanks.

Wolle is interesting, heard a lot about them, need to give them a try, too.

[DavidKOS]

Funny you mention the Pickboy. Just yesterday, I recorded a little classical duet on my bowlback using this pick, and though it felt quite good playing it, the resulting sound is a little to thin for my taste.

There are times when I wish they made a slightly thicker one, but overall I'm happy with them. Of course it depends on the tone you want, the way you play, your particular instrument and set-up, etc.

Are the Wolle picks those German school plastic ones? Even the soft is a thicker pick and a whole different style.

https://schneidermusik.de/shop1/images/p_wo_ww.gif

http://trekel.de/de/zubehor/zubehor-f-r-mandoline-mandola/2980_WollePlektrumweiss.html

https://schneidermusik.de/shop1/index.php/cPath/87_146_539

I'm trying to find an easily obtainable pick in the Neapolitan tradition.

Like this sort of thing:

http://anniespicks.weebly.com/uploads/4/8/5/7/4857075/4669705_orig.jpg

something like the Pettine and De Pace

http://rswalz.pagesperso-orange.fr/Img/figure2.jpg

- - - Updated - - -


Thanks everyone. I currently use Dogal No3 for a bowlback, but find them to be wearing out too quickly. I also have unbranded celluloid ones that are similar to pickboy and they are not too bad..

I've wanted to try the Dogal picks. What thickness is a #3?

thanks.

[vic-victor]

I've wanted to try the Dogal picks. What thickness is a #3?



Not sure, but I think around 0.75mm. I tried #2, but they are too flexible to my taste, though they sound OK on super light strings.

[crisscross]

Are the Wolle picks those German school plastic ones? Even the soft is a thicker pick and a whole different style.

Yes, that is the Wolle pick. The soft one is made from a little softer material but the thickness seems to be the same as the hard one.
There is a shop here in Germany specializing in music accessories called Tonetoys. They have some interesting picks:

The Old Fashioned mandolin pick http://www.tone-toys.com/shop/Old-Fashioned

The Tor Tis pick. The two in the pictures below come close to the shape of a pick in the Neapolitan tradtition. http://www.tone-toys.com/shop/Tor-Tis_1
But 13 € for a single pick? At least they seem to have the right thickness for my taste.

Galli 310 picks. I have some of them , but they are a little too large for my taste http://www.tone-toys.com/shop/Galli-Tortoise-Picks

Herdim mandolin picks: I'm not a big fan of nylon picks, but the shape is OK http://www.tone-toys.com/shop/Herdim-Mandoline

[DavidKOS]

Thanks for posting the links to the German picks - I'd like to try them out.

The German classical mandolin tradition has diverged a bit from the older Italian school - they vary in terms of things like use of tremolo, type of picks and strings, etc. So there are also some cool options of picks that don't get marketed outside of Germany , unfortunately.

Some of those picks look very good.

[Beanzy]

BTW Eoin, can you afford a sheet of Meldin? Last time I checked a thin sheet comes to about $1300 (no time to translate to British currency, sorry). Besides that stuff is super hard -- how do you intend to work it?

Still waiting for a final quote on a 12"x12" sheet from a friend in a uk company that use it. It would only be a one off on top of their next order and they normally order bars not sheets. The initial cut-out of blanks will be done with fairly straightforward tools, the tests so far using recycled Meldin don't have any issues. My only worry with the recycled stuff tested is that this comes from a high speed part that has normally failed by then, so the bits I'm testing are possibly fatigued too. Also the manufacturer who uses it are only one of many in that market so it's hit and miss in terms of getting hold of it. At the moment I'm using water buffalo horn, but that wears and needs reshaping after about 4 or 5 months.
Thing is I'm not convinced I'll ever make it viable anyway, but the design is worth it for the improvement it delivers over what's available. But we're talking a niche within a niche here.

[vic-victor]

Got BC Jazz 35 this morning and it works great for a bowlback. Tried several instruments, including Embergher. Clear sound, great tremolo. Hard and strong and thin enough. Just what the doctor's ordered.

[LazyRiver]

Just got a modern day bowlback from Carlo Mazzaccaro. He sent along a Galli Medium (0.70 mm) pick. I really like it.

[JeffD]

I just had a revelation. I don't think Pick Boy is the same company as Pickboy. The former is a famous brand of many kinds of guitar picks, of all kinds of materials, the latter makes those stretched heart shaped 0.7mm picks that say mandolin on them, shown in post #5, and I don't think they make anything else.

[LadysSolo]

I have used the BC jazz 35, but prefer the BC TD 35 or 40 for my bowlbacks. I have tried Dogal picks, they are okay but didn't "wow" me. However, I didn't hate them either.

[Jim Garber]

This is a topic worth revisiting. Bowlbacks are different but among players of that type of mandolin, there are as many variations in chosen picks as there are players. I would not say it is a rule that lighter strings "prefer" a lighter pick, though, in general the gauge of pick is lighter than some preferred by some carved-top players.

The Roman/Ranieri is a very different animal and takes a change of technique especially for tremolo. It also requires a change in grip and works sort of like a violin bow being more sensitive to changes in grip pressure. They are not a light gauge pick tho. The ones I made of Ultem sheet actually worked pretty nicely. The subset of classical players who actually play using these picks is actually quite small.

[JeffD]

This is a topic worth revisiting. Bowlbacks are different but among players of that type of mandolin, there are as many variations in chosen picks as there are players. I would not say it is a rule that lighter strings "prefer" a lighter pick, though, in general the gauge of pick is lighter than some preferred by some carved-top players. .

My excursions into classical, and into classical ensemble playing, (and the recommendations and general influence of folks on this site, especially you Jim, and DavidKOS) have really made me appreciate the higher tones of these eight string wonders.

One might think to match the instrument to the pick, so bowls, characterized by brilliant tone, might match the lighter pointier pick in order to bring that out more.

OTOH I have been using the lighter pointier picks on other mandolins, and the effect is equally dramatic. Those little picks put a whole new third floor and penthouse of great tone on my Stiver. Boy those high notes sound great.

So maybe we match the pick to the music being played, not necessarily the instrument, and for classical I have really lost my affection for the heavy deep picks with the creamy tone - as it gets in the way of the scintillating required by the music.

I dunno. I find myself in flux again. Where I was so sure before.

[DavidKOS]

So maybe we match the pick to the music being played, not necessarily the instrument, and for classical I have really lost my affection for the heavy deep picks with the creamy tone - as it gets in the way of the scintillating required by the music.

I dunno. I find myself in flux again. Where I was so sure before.

I think you have a good point there, and it's not just on the end of the pick.

The choice of pick may be like the choice of a golf club - you pick what's best for the shot and hole. No one uses their favorite club for putting and driving.

[JeffD]

The choice of pick may be like the choice of a golf club - you pick what's best for the shot and hole..

I picture a caddy who comes with me everywhere, and carries my ever burgeoning collection of picks in a huge sack, and suggest the pick for the tune I am about to play. "Now on this tune you want that high high F to really shine, so I would suggest..."

[DavidKOS]

I picture a caddy who comes with me everywhere, and carries my ever burgeoning collection of picks in a huge sack, and suggest the pick for the tune I am about to play. "Now on this tune you want that high high F to really shine, so I would suggest..."

So you got my image!

[mandobassman]

$35 is also too much money for a pick, seriously, what's it made of, gold?



It's only too much if you're not willing to spend it. Personally, the improvement in handling, smoothness and complexity of tone it provides for me was well worth the money. I have several other picks that do a very good job, but I always come back to the Blue Chip.

There used to be lots of pros that were willing to spend $75-$100 for real tortoise picks, because at the time it was the only material that gave them the tone they wanted. Many of those players now are using BC.

Lots of players are willing to spend several thousand dollars on a quality mandolin, but are unwilling to spend $35 on a pick. Go figure.

[Jared Heddinger]

Are there any commercially available Ranieri picks that aren't incredibly expensive?

[DavidKOS]

It's only too much if you're not willing to spend it. Personally, the improvement in handling, smoothness and complexity of tone it provides for me was well worth the money. I have several other picks that do a very good job, but I always come back to the Blue Chip.

There used to be lots of pros that were willing to spend $75-$100 for real tortoise picks, because at the time it was the only material that gave them the tone they wanted. Many of those players now are using BC.

Lots of players are willing to spend several thousand dollars on a quality mandolin, but are unwilling to spend $35 on a pick. Go figure.

You sum up the reasons given in this thread for using BC's quite well.

So far the couple BC's I bought proved to be good picks but nothing better than a Primetone in terms of playability for me. Obviously others have had much more favorable results.


Are there any commercially available Ranieri picks that aren't incredibly expensive?

I assume you mean less than 35 bucks for the RB?

http://www.redbeartrading.com/ccp8/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=RMNTS

instructions for making your own:

http://www.embergher.com/index.php?id=56

also search for threads on this subject on the Cafe forum

[Jim Garber]

Not to get into yet another BC thread, but frankly I get as good a tone from ultem plastic picks as from BCs. The real plus for me for the BC is on rhythm guitar, especially when I play old time backup. I play pretty heavily and when using a large triangle ultem pick end up with rough surfaces after a short time of playing. The BC I use now has probably lasted over 4 or 5 years and with no visible wear. They are made of Meldin, a super hard plastic that is also super expensive which accounts for the price. I priced a 12"X12" sheet a few years ago with the idea of making Ranieri picks from it and one sheet costs $1300 from a wholesaler. The sheets of ultem are much less money and I would recommend buying that for anyone who wants to play with odd-shaped picks. Ultem is prob a lot easier to work with too.

[Mark Wilson]

http://www.amazon.com/Pickboy-Mandolin-Nytro-0-75mm-picks/product-reviews/B004UIFXRI

10 for $8.34:disbelief: Outrageous. Carve them out of plastic milk jug tops - give'em a nice bevel and save your money :mandosmiley:

[RodCH]

I actually did this about 50 years ago, when I didn't HAVE any money. Can't say they sounded too good but then I didn't have money for strings either. Also, not sophisticated enough for the bevel part. Not even sure I'm sophisticated enough for that now.