Best small or table top band saw for building

[Rick Crenshaw]

Once again, after bamboo rod building, I'm starting another new project - an F5. Well, the first rod cost me about $2000 in tools, supplies, etc. Then about $200 per rod. Here again I find I need a few specialized tools, though not nearly as many as my foray into bamboo rod building. I'd like a small bandsaw (I have a small attic shop. Any recommendations?

Rick

[crawdad]

I have been using a Delta 9" bandsaw and I have been able to do what I need to cut the pieces for the F5. I'd like a bigger bandsaw for several reasons--first, I'd like a larger table and a wider space between the blade guard and the blade itself. Second, the small saws can't cut billets, so you are stuck with getting wood elsewhere. The maximum height of the cut is only about 3 inches. Finally, the maximum blade width for 9" machines is 3/8th. A wider blade is better for making straight cuts. On larger machines you can use wider blades.

If you shop around, you may be able to find a good deal on a 14" saw which you will thank yourself for in the long run. The little 9 inch saws are around for about $100 bucks and can get you started. Just remember that they do have limits.

[Dave Cohen]

Imo, when it comes to bandsaws, smaller than 14" is just too small. You will be able to use a 9" saw to cut out the plates from the carved wedges, etc., but you will soon run into limitations that will make you wish that you had bought a bigger bandsaw. And it will cost you more than if you had just bought the bigger saw in the first place.

There are two main limitations to smaller saws. First and most important is lack of rigidity in the frame. That is not too bad when you are cutting very thin pieces, but as soon as you try to cut something thicker than about 2", you will see what I mean. The lack of rigidity also has consequences when you are trying to resaw thin strips to make binding, etc. You will find that you will waste and ruin more wood with the small saw. The second limitation is the height limit. On my 14: bandsaw, I am limited to resawing pieces which are no wider than 6.2" As it turns out, that is just enough to resaw mandolin and mandola backs. If I want to resaw plates for octaves, mandocellos, guitars, etc., I have to borrow the use of a bigger bandsaw. If you build just one instrument, and buy parts which are already milled to dimension for you (again, at greater cost!) you will get by with a 9" saw. The catch is, I don't know anyone who has built just one instrument.

[Rick Crenshaw]

Thanks, I was thinking of the 9" saws, but now I will watch the local ads for a bit larger saw. I still have to keep them table top size for my shop. I hate leaving tools in my garage. They rust over if not kept clean and oiled and I just don't seem to want to use them as often.

Rick

[Dru Lee Parsec]

I got along with a 9" Delta for several years. Now that I've upgraded to a Delta 14" with a riser block I can't understand how I got along without it. The things I found limiting with the 9" were twofold: First, I found the accuracy to be limited. I seemed to have to constantly fiddle with the tension and guide block settings to get it to cut straight. 2nd, the 9" dimension got in my way when I tried to do even medium size projects (like building a rocking horse). The "under the guide" height was pretty limiting as well. I could just barely get enough height to resaw a 4 1/2" board for dulcimer backs. 5" or more would be impossible.

Now that I'm thinking about it I'm remembering all the other problems. I could bog down the motor pretty easily. Especially trying to resaw something. And the fence was just barely adequate.

So, as a hobbiest tool it could probably work. Or if you only need to cut out the curves of an F style mando and do some basic neck cuts you could probably use it. Just be sure to throw the blade away and replace it as soon as it starts getting dull. A dull bandsaw blade will really wander and make it tough to get straight cuts. Luckily, the small 67" bandsaw blades are only $6 to $10 each.

I hope that helps.

[sunburst]

There are some 3 wheel bandsaws. Most of them are toys, but I've read that some are good.
What you get with a 3 wheel saw is a better ratio of table size-working area to height. What you don't get is a lot of rigidity. You can't do any real resawing, but you can cut out bigger patterns more easily.
To me, one of the least desirable things about smaller saws is blade breakage. the shorter the blade, the more times it bends around those little wheels for the same amount of cutting. Not only that, but each bend is tighter than a larger wheel, so blades fatigue and break faster.
The worst injury I ever got from a power tool was from the end of a broken blade on a Delta 14 inch saw.
I have the luxury of plenty of ceiling height, so I have a 30 inch saw and wouldn't mind having a bigger one.

[Jim Webster]

I'm planning to build a couple of lap steel guitars and a flattop acoustic before tackling a mandolin. I too was about to plunk down $100 for a 9 inch band saw. But after reading this thread a few weeks ago I decided to hold my fire. I walked into the local Home Depot tonight and they had Ridgid 14 inch bandsaws on sale for $350 (marked down from $429). They said the sale price was only for the three they had in stock. The cheapest I've seen 14" band saws (Sears etc.) was $500 and up so I grabbed it. The tradeoff is that I figure with an vertical/angle adapter for my 1/2 drill I can put off buying a drill press. At least that's what I told my wife. Yeah, that's the ticket.

By the way GEFool--I work with a guy who is into wrapping graphite rods -- I know through him that you bamboo guys are the zen masters -- so I'm sure you'll do well on your first F5.

[Darren Kern]

Reviving an old topic... if I've run across a very inexpensive Craftsman 12" stand alone bandsaw, can it do a sufficient job for me? For now I'll be buying precut, unjoined wood, not full length boards or anything. I have had my eyes out for a used 14" but it is a really good deal on this 12. Thanks.

[thistle3585]

I recently saw a 14" saw at harbor freight for $260.00 and it would accomodate riser blocks. Don't know of its quality, but might be worth checking out.

[Darren Kern]

$260 sounds great, I've never seen a 14" at that price. Thanks, I'll look into it.

[Darren Kern]

Confirmed, it's still available at this price. I'll get this one as soon as I can. Does anybody have any experience with this brand? Is it any good?

[mikeyes]

You might consider a 10" band saw from Rikon and sold at Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5383)for $149. Woodcraft often has these on sale. They are not as good as the bigger saws but they are better than the rival small saws.

[Mark Franzke]

This is a timely topic. I am buying a bigger bandsaw this week and was looking at the 12" from Sears at $299 and the 14" from Harbour Freight at $329. I have bought other tools from H F and they are not as precise as Craftsman, but usually do the job. I'm probably leaning toward Sears on this one. I've been using a very old bandsaw, and the lack of precision can be frustrating.

[arbarnhart]

HF sells a $20 set of roller guides for that saw that should significantly improve precision. The over the counter HF stores offer an NQA full replacement extended warranty on tools for a pretty reasonable price also.

[tnpathfinder]

My experiance with HF tools is mostly limited to hand tools and a few small power tools. I would suggest that you spend the extra money for a "trusted" brand. They work fine for sometime but just don't last in the long run. That's my 2¢.

[Darren Kern]

You might consider a 10" band saw from Rikon and sold at Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5383)for $149. #Woodcraft often has these on sale. #They are not as good as the bigger saws but they are better than the rival small saws.
Mike, what would the limitations to a 10" bandsaw be? If I'm only buying pre-cut pieces of wood in sets for building mandolins (16"x6"x1" for plates to be joined, blocks for necks, etc), is something like that going to do a good job? I know almost nothing about any type of power saws.

[Jim Rowland]

I gave away my Craftsman bandsaw a few years ago because it had sheer sides and an aluminum table that you could not clamp sacrificial tables to. I bought a 14 inch Grizzly at a good price which works much better. It is,by no means,a super precise outfit,but with a few small upgrades such as the roller guides,it's all I need at this time. You do have to keep it tweeked and trimmed according to instructions,but that is true of all of them. I'm sure you know that the Grizzly CEO is, himself, a luthier.
Jim

[PaulD]

This is a timely topic. I am buying a bigger bandsaw this week and was looking at the 12" from Sears at $299 and the 14" from Harbour Freight at $329. I have bought other tools from H F and they are not as precise as Craftsman, but usually do the job. I'm probably leaning toward Sears on this one. I've been using a very old bandsaw, and the lack of precision can be frustrating.
There's no guarantee that the Sears Craftsman bandsaw is good quality, but for a $30 difference I would sure look closely at the Sears saw. I would rather have a smaller capacity machine that's durable and precise than a greater capacity that isn't. In fact, I don't know what your "very old bandsaw" is, but if it's a decent name it's probably worth rehabilitating rather than replacing it... if you're starting with a good design and decent frame you would probably end up with a better machine.

I'd see if you can lay your hands on some reviews of bandsaws in Consumer Reports, Fine Woodworking, or some similar publication or Website before shelling out your cash, but then I tend to be an anal retentive shopper! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Paul Doubek

[Gibson A5]

Lowes had the Delta 14" on sale last year and I got that because it was the only cheap priced 14" saw with a 16" table. All the others in that price range only had a 14" table or smaller. I think I paid around $349 for it. Lowes runs them on sale now and then. It has worked well for me. Delta also sells the 6" riser setup for it.
Bill Pruitt

[Dennis Russell]

I want to get my two cents in here< I tried a harbor freight "14" a good freind who used to be a Mill right for Flexible corporation attempted to set it for me, it failed miserably no matter what we did to set it up, he said it was a piece of C**p take it back, the harbor freight people said it was made in China and they already had three returns.. I went to a wood workers show a fw months later and got a nice "12 Jet for $285 on sale, it was in a crate, I took it home and set it up, been using it for four years, works good for building stuff for violins and mandolins, but not large enought to resaw for guitar backs, I have a Grizzly catalog, "14 bandsaws are reasonable but I figure for as much building I do it isnt worth the expense.. thanks Dennis In Arizona

[PicknBow]

I purchased the newest 10" bandsaw that Craftsman came out with the intentions of using it in the repair shop part of my business. The frame is steel, the table is cast iron, the wheels and guide adjustment mechanisms are aluminum. The blade guides are ball bearing roller type(a little tricky to adjust), the table insert supplied is too thin but easy to replace. It will only resaw about 4-7/8, so resawing back and tops is probably out.(hey its a benchtop saw) I can't beleive how much I use it and it was only 130.00. It can't compete with my 14" Rockwell but for small parts, clamping cauls, jigs, etc. it does a good job and I no longer have to go over to my home shop to fabricate something.

[John Bertotti]

I tried to find a old thread on this from last year but couldn't find it. So in a nut shell all band-saws are not created equal. You may look at two the same size but if you dig in to the specs you'll find a lot of differences. I bought a 14 inch jet with the bigger motor and riser blocks. Did some set up work switched to ceramic blocks and blade back stop. Delta was the other top choice for me but the jet had a sale and rebate program at the time and saved me about 250 dollars over the same Delta. I didn't realize at the time Jet isn't US made but the Delta was.

Keep an eye on the table size the working Hp of the motor and the weight. I went for they heaviest I could to help reduce vibration and frame twist, the highest working horse power, and largest table in a unit that would take riser blocks. Additions like the tension release handle are nice if included and a rolling base but you'll find the cheap bases very flimsy. I actually saw the sears 14 inch and the motor was supposed to be the same size but was actually smaller because it was being sole using peak Hp not working hp. That made the motor actually about 3/4 hp smaller. Good luck.

Oh one last thing but I think I remember someone stating he re-saws with a 1/8 inch blade with great success.
John

[mythicfish]

I agree with Dennis R. on his choice of the Jet ... good value for the $.
That said, accuracy and durability of shop tools are purchased by the pound.
Keep an eye out for older machinery like Walker-Turner and Rockwell. They may need
reconditioning, but they perform admirably.

Curt

[arbarnhart]

Oh one last thing but I think I remember someone stating he re-saws with a 1/8 inch blade with great success.
I think the width issue is overblown, but 1/8" seems really small. The size and spacing of the teeth is probably more important - big teeth, widely spaced. I have not seen 1/8" blades with anything but fine teeth, but I suspect you could order them. IMO, using a blade small enough so that drift is still an issue but feeding in the direction to account for the drift will leave a better surface and smaller kerf than using the bigger blades. Also takes less power. Big blades don't eliminate drift; they defeat it and leave the scars of battle on the surfaces.

[PaulD]

I didn't realize at the time Jet isn't US made but the Delta was.

I might be wrong about this, but even though Delta is a US company that used to manufacture in the USA, I think they are made in Taiwan (or somewhere in Asia) along with Jet. I've got a Jet 14" with a riser and the closed base that I'm happy with. It used to be that the Grizzly reviewers would have to do quite a bit of fitting and rework to get the thing to work right, but the reviews I've seen over the last few years seem to rate Grizzly pretty well.

That's why I recommend looking for current reviews if you're shopping... machine quality changes from year to year like everything else and some of the Asian built stuff is now on par with the current American companies' offerings. I think it's a leveling due to cost and competition; Delta quality has gone down while Jet and Grizzly have come up.

Paul Doubek

[John Bertotti]

I've been using a 3/4 inch timber wolf blade for re-sawing wet and dry wood. Man this thing can cut and if your careful it will come out without those battle scars. Proper tension and band-saw setup are essential. I was amazed when I started researching band-saws just exactly how much you can put into set up and it definitely makes as much difference as a good set up on a mando.

Sunburst posted a pic of his monster in a old thread I had on this subject. Man that thing is huge. I am always watching for an old standard to come up locally. John


Here's an old thread that helped me a lot.
Re-sawing (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=24322;hl=bandsaws)

I know your looking at the table top ones but once you use a big one you'll always wonder why it wasn't the first power tool you bought. I know I do!

[amowry]

Just to add my 2 cents, I've owned the Grizzly G005 14" saw for about three years, and I'm quite impressed with it. I would hesitate to buy a lot of Grizzly products (and I definitely wouldn't consider Harbor-Freight), but I've been happy with this one. It's much better quality than the China-built Deltas that I've looked at.

[mikeyes]

Hydrilla,

I don't know precisely what the Rikon specs are, but I bet that if you go to the local Woodcraft store, they will measure it for you. It is not going to have the same amount of space as my 14" Jet (which is a great saw, BTW.) YOu might consider a bigger saw, the footprint is not all that big and they have a lot of advantages. It can be the most useful tool you own.

[rlw]

HF BANDSAW

I think I got mine for about $250 when it was on sale.

I've never used a high end bandsaw. But compared to the
9" delta I had the HF is a huge improvement.
I've bought alot of their tools and have to say they
do the job.

[arbarnhart]

About the battle scars...

Take a look at this page (http://www.homestead.com/valrosewoodworks/files/ResawCarterGiudeTimberWolf1-4.html) on resawing with a 1/4" blade. The guy also has a page on using a 3/4", which is probably his primary resaw blade. I think this was just to prove a point. In the close ups, you can see that the surface is pretty rough. But he used a fence and fought drift. I have cut to a line freehand with a 1/4" blade plenty of times and I get a *much* smoother surface. Sometimes I catch myself fighting drift instead of accounting for it and I get those lines (if I am lucky; sometimes I bind the blade instead). With the wider blades, there isn't enough room in the kerf for the wood to be fed at more than a couple of degrees off the blade face, so they fight drift all the way. My understanding is that it is the blade manufacturing process that causes drift and that it would be prohibitively expensive to make "perfect" blades. I beleive that because I know from experience that drift varies from one blade to the next but is consistent for the blade no matter what I cut and tweaking the setup has a very limited effect on it.

[PaulD]

You probably already know this, but if you're fighting a lot of drift you can minimize it by taking a sharpening stone to the blade. Run the machine while gently and carefully holding the abrasive parallel to the side of the blade that is cutting most agressivly (the direction the blade wants to drift). Don't overdo it, and do frequent test cuts to see if you've eliminated the drift.

I have some wide blades that I used to use for resawing before I knew better. I haven't resawed any stock for awhile, but IIRC I settled in on a 1/2" skip tooth blade.

I agree with whoever said that a 1/8" blade should work, but it's the wrong blade for the job. Besides not being able to find one (to my knowledge) with enough gullet between the teeth, you don't have much metal to dissipate the heat and I doubt you can run the tension as high as you should for resawing.

Paul Doubek

[arbarnhart]

You probably already know this, but if you're fighting a lot of drift you can minimize it by taking a sharpening stone to the blade. Run the machine while gently and carefully holding the abrasive parallel to the side of the blade that is cutting most agressivly (the direction the blade wants to drift).
I have done this on scoll saw blades, but recieved advice against doing it on the bandsaw. Supposedly it rounds points and dulls the blade a little, which made sense to me. I have heard of some folks adjusting the set of the teeth, but that seems like an awful lot of work.

[PaulD]

I think it's a pretty common practice on the bandsaw too, but I settled on a single point fence years ago so you can keep your work equidistant from the blade but cant it to compensate for drift. I'm with you on setting the teeth; I've got a couple of saw sets that I use on handsaws, but resetting the teeth on my bandsaw sounds like a pain! Now that I think about it, though, if I'm using a skip tooth or resaw blade it wouldn't be any more teeth than a crosscut saw. Still, I agree that the narrower blade won't force you to fight the drift.

pd

[John Bertotti]

My 3/4 inch blade is smoother then that link above but I have also had as smooth from a 3/8. I haven't tried a smaller blade. I don't consider that scarring though. I have seen much worse from large blades and a poorly set up machine. This is conversation for another thread though.

Back to small band-saws. If re-sawing isn't your thing then fine get the small machine. Put in a small blade and trim the body or cut your scroll. Decide what your needs are and think about any future uses you will have. I stand by the bigger saw though, much more versatile. I have a closed base 14-inch jet with six inch risers. The closed base is smaller then the open base machines I was looking at and heavier which to me is better stability. I'm not near mine at the moment but if footprint is the only thing leaning you to the small machine then consider mine is I believe around 2 foot square in the foot print. It was heavy to move and assemble but didn't give me to much trouble with at the time a left foot in a cast. The individual pieces are light enough to get up to your attic. I would use two people though. Good luck in your search. John

[Ragamuffin]

I'd stay clear of machinery from Harbor Freight. I've tried stuff from there several times, only to be completely dissatisfied. It's a real hassle to wait for something you've ordered form them (takes forever) and then have it be a piece of you know what. I have a Jet 14" saw that I have modified with Carter guides and quick release and a throat extension for resawing. I'm very pleased with the way this saw performs. I'd definately suggest holding off until you can get yourself into at least a 14" quality saw.

Ragman

[arbarnhart]

I only use HF because there is a store in town and then it can be a lot more satisfactory. You pick out the actual tool you take home, and they sell an NQA full exchange warranty for not much extra. That means you could bring in the heavily used tool pretty much smashed up and they would just give you a new one. The roller guides for their saw are only $20 extra, BTW.

I think Darren is going a step up in quality, though.

[mandolinplucker]

I bought the harbor freight saw and sold it as soon as I could find someone that wanted it. One good thing about HF tools is that you dont need an ingraving tool to put your name on them. Just scratch it on with your thumb nail. For the price you pay and the quality that you get, I've found Grizzly Tools hard to beat. I had to add some weight to the lathe to make it more stable but My tablesaw, 16" band saw ( timberwolf blades cut true and straight) and lathe came from grizzly and I am satisfied with them. They have a free luthier tool catalogue that you can order on line. They will try to get you in contact with someone close to you who will talk to or show you a tool that was bought from them. I don't own stock or anything but just thought I'd share my experience.

[Darren Kern]

Against the recommendations of some others that said to wait until I could afford a bigger saw, I bought a 12" bandsaw on ebay. #It is yet another Craftsman bandsaw, an older 12" bandsaw/sander combo (not sure how the sander part works). #It will be quite a while before I can afford the $400-600 for a decent 14" saw, so I figured this one would be a good one to cut my teeth on. #I paid $99 and it's local, so there's no shipping charge, just a little gas money. #The guy said it has seen very little use. #Here's a pic so you guys can tell me how much of a dummy I am. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Antlurz]

I've had a Craftsman just like that for about 30 years. My biggest complaint is that the guides are 3/8" which apparently is not a standard. I've cut more wood with it than I'd care to load in a truck this week, and while not top of the line, for that kind of money, you will get a lot of use out of it.

That should be an 80 inch blade.

Ron

[Darren Kern]

I picked up my new (to me) bandsaw this weekend, and it looks like I got a good deal for $99. There is no rust anywhere, the tires, wheels, etc are in great shape, the motor runs quiet and smooth, and the whole thing in general is surprisingly quiet, even when cutting. We cut a couple scrap pieces, and it cuts very well. The 3/8" blade seems to be like new and sharp. The belt going to the motor could use some tensioning. The table is rock solid for what it is. There was a lot of duct tape along the back and where the vacuum hose goes in, but I figured it was to keep sawdust from blowing out, because the side covers attach fine with the latches. For my first bandsaw, I think I'll learn a lot and get some good use out of it.

[Rob Grant]

My choice (it was free too!<g>). An Atlas bandsaw purchased in the U.S. by a mate's late father in the 1940s. That's a local wild boar tusk on the table that I'm cutting to see if it will make good nut material:

[Rob Grant]

Also, check out the manufacturer's badge. "Kalamazoo"; a "shoe-in" for making mandolins!<G>

[Antlurz]

I finally mounted a flexible goose neck light on my Craftsman. Now I can put it where I want it,and use any size bulb I need.

From the looks of the paint of the top of Darren's table, it looks like that saw has had VERY little use.

Ron

[sunburst]

...I figured this one would be a good one to cut my teeth on.
Darren, I've uses a Craftsman saw like that before, and it's a good saw, for what it is. Reliable and well made. I've cut a lot of stuff on it, but I've never cut my teeth on it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Bob, that Atlas is really cool! One of these days I'll find a good deal on something like that, and leave it set up with a small blade for little stuff, so I don't have to change blades as much on the big saw.

[Magnus Geijer]

I'm currently trying to convince the wife that I need a 14" saw. I've been looking at the local retailers, and so far have seen a Delta, a Craftsman and a Ridgid. The Delta looked like it was coming apart where it stood, not sure if they've been going downhill or if this was just a bad unit, so I've been concentrating on the Craftsman and the Ridgid. The price difference is quite noticeable, with the Ridgid at $350 and the Craftsman at $480. Does anyone have experience to do a comparison?

/Magnus

[John Bertotti]

I would check the ridgid forum for the reviews and threads there. I have heard of some that were next to impossible to set up well. For a contractor they worked great but if you wanted any precision you had a load of work to do to get there. That was an issue with the first releases of the product a couple years ago. I would bet they have resolved those now but would certainly check. The sears ones I looked at seemed like great deals but then I checked the motors. My jet is 1.5 hp continuous. The sears I looked at was sold as 1.5 but it was peak. A fair difference between the two. Check the specs close to make sure you get a close apples to apples comparison. My 1.5 comment may be wrong it may be 1.25 I'll check but regardless they were both sold as the same hp but one was peak and one was continuous. John

[dfrosto]

I bought my 12" Craftsman saw in 1980 for $300. It's been a great friend to me. Like many of the Craftsman tools, the adjustments are a bit clunky, but I've had a good ride with it. I did replace the table with a solid cast iron table I got at a salvage yard. I've been happy with it overall, particularly since it rips 7 inches, versus 6 inches on the Delta/ Jet style 14 inch model. 'Course, there's no riser block happening on the Craftsman. If you paid $99, you got a steal!