MXL990 setup question

[jonny250]

I'm just hoping for some more advice on using our single mic - we have a MXL 990 and an ART tube MP preamp. we have practiced with the setup and everything has been good.
we played at a festival over the weekend and the sound guy had a hard time avoiding feedback - the PA speakers were out in front, it was in a tent in a field, no monitors. afterwards he said the 990 is too sensitive and too wide a cardiode? this was our first time using this setup with big speakers and we did a long sound check beforehand. This was also the sound guys first time setting up a single mic, so perhaps i didnt give him the right direction?
i would be grateful for any advice, it sounds like other people have used this mic successfully, so its probably our setup? i struggle to see how the sound was feeding back in a 3 sided tent with the speakers in front, pointing out?
i can change the setup, but really dont want to abandon the single mic if i dont have to...
any suggestions on what we can do to improve things? or is the mic too sensitive?
we still had lots of fun though :)
thanks.

[dhbailey]

I don't have this mic, but a couple of things in your message popped out at me:

Why are you using a preamp -- the specs at the MXLmics web-site says it has an FET preamp built-in. Isn't that enough? If you're using the preamp to provide the phantom power you might consider buying just a phantom power box. I saw a demonstration video through a link from the MXL web-site made by an independent person who purchased the mic (it wasn't a product-placement review) who simply plugged it into his mixing board without additional pre-amp and it sounded great. I checked the owner's manual (one single sheet) and the following statement jumped out at me: "They also tend to pick up sounds outside the pattern more than some designs, which can lead to powerful feedback if you are not careful."

The cardioid pattern as depicted in the specs at the web-site and in the video is a very wide one -- sounds at almost 90 degrees to either side from straight-on are just as full and clear as those straight on. That's part of why you find it so nice for your single-mic setup for your band.

Your problem may well have been the sound-guy who wasn't used to a single-mic setup for a band and he may have nudged the levels too high once you started playing.

My advice is to try the next gig without the additional pre-amp.

[mandobassman]

I've used this mic for the past 10 years with very few feedback instances. We do not use any external devices(preamp, EQ). We just plug into a Yahama powered mixer. We ues two small condensers for other instruments. I usually set the volume and Tone control settings on the 990 first by turning all other mics off. The 990 is a bit bright if tone contols are set flat. I usually have the treble control set to around 9 or 10 o'clock. The mids are usually pulled back a bit as well. Bass control seems to be the most dependent on the room. You want fullness to the vocals but it can get a little rumbly sometimes. A major factor in how much feedback you get is how loud you play and sing and how close you get to the mic. Most of the time that I've seem feedback issues it been because the band was playing too light and/or standing too far from the mic, which causes the soundman to turn the volume up and introducing feedback possibilities. Bands that are successful with lg condensers are usually more powerful bands that really drive the instruments and vocals. Much depends on individual vocal capabilities as well. Our guitar player and banjo player each stand with their voices about 12 to 18 inches from the mic. I have a much quieter voice so I need to be around 8 inches from the mic. If you're not positioning yourselves correctly or playing with enough drive, the sound guy has little to do but turn it up and get feedback. I see this all the time at a monthly gig my band does. During our 2nd set we always have guests come up and play with us. So many times the guest cant be heard because he or she is playing too soft. Perhaps you can use seperate mics for the instruments and use the 990 just for vocals. Keep working with it. Hopefully you'll find a solution.

[Jim]

I only use my ART pre with the 990 when I don't have phantom power available. The ART may have added too much gain.

[jonny250]

Thanks guys, i will persevere - i was using the ART preamp for phantom power, so will take that out. it didnt occur to me that their setup probably had phantom power anyway! i have a couple of weeks until i get to try again... :)

[almeriastrings]

The FET 'preamp' in the mic is really just a buffer amplifier - not to be confused with what you might call a "full blown" preamp as you might use for recording, or as found on a desk.

Your ART Tube MP is, however, a "full" preamp and if you were feeding that into the mic inputs of the desk, that would be cascading two preamps (the ART + the one in the desk) and would result in a very problematic situation, with excessive gain... if you want to use the ART, then you must feed into the LINE LEVEL inputs of a desk.

The 990 is not especially sensitive, and it's pickup pattern (while not tight) is not really wide either. I suspect the cascading of preamps + incorrect gain settings + inexperience was the core of the issue.

[msargent]

Using a single condenser in a live setting, particularly a live outdoor setting, is going to depend heavily on the soundguy. If there's any way for your band to regular practice with a PA and the mic, that would be invaluable - dialing out problem frequencies, getting to used to positioning around the mic, etc. Having an ear for EQ is key when working with a single mic. There are many factors that might contribute to outdoor feedback. I also often keep a few RODE windshields (http://www.rode.com/accessories/deadkitten) in my gig bag for outdoor gigs - condensers are very prone to wind noise.

To be honest, whenever I hear that an engineer has zero experience with condensers, I generally let the soundperson mic up the band however they're most comfortable. I agree with everyone else above that the extra ART preamp gain would've contributed to the feedback, but if they had any idea what they were doing on the engineering end, that's something that would've been solved instantly at the gig. Success/failure is going to rest heavily on the engineer.

[TonyP]

I've learned the hard way not to tote around my own mic's and ask a unknown soundman to use them. Some can, most can't. And most run away from condensers. And single mic's can just make them stare at you like you are from another planet. If you get lucky you'll see as part of the mic's on stage a LDC and some condensers, if not, you are just asking for trouble. In situations like a festival you are pretty much at the mercy of the soundman, it's best not to make him mad :) And that means you conforming to his setup, not the other way around.

[jonny250]

well we survived our second gig using the MXL 990 and this time without the pre-amp and just a phantom power box it was all fine.
The single mic seems to go down very well so i'm pleased we got it working - this time we had a gusty wind and playing into big castle walls but by keeping much closer to the mic and driving the sound it was all ok. Thanks again for the advice :)
136457

[almeriastrings]

Stone walls and floors never help!

You did well to make that work. Very challenging.

[Mandoplumb]

I've learned the hard way not to tote around my own mic's and ask a unknown soundman to use them. Some can, most can't. And most run away from condensers. And single mic's can just make them stare at you like you are from another planet. If you get lucky you'll see as part of the mic's on stage a LDC and some condensers, if not, you are just asking for trouble. In situations like a festival you are pretty much at the mercy of the soundman, it's best not to make him mad :) And that means you conforming to his setup, not the other way around.
I disagree,the sound mans job is to reinforce your sound, not make one of his liking. This is where your knowledge of your mic and some tact is called for. I use a ribbon mic and more than one sound man has told me you can't use figure 8 mics in PA work. After I show him how he's amazed. I couldn't readily do everything he does but I know my mic and how to set it up.

[TonyP]

I disagree,the sound mans job is to reinforce your sound, not make one of his liking. This is where your knowledge of your mic and some tact is called for. I use a ribbon mic and more than one sound man has told me you can't use figure 8 mics in PA work. After I show him how he's amazed. I couldn't readily do everything he does but I know my mic and how to set it up.

I agree to disagree :) I've gotten away with like using a AKG 414 live, and I know when I've dodged the bullet and got away with it. You are lucky you could talk a sound man into something he was not used to or comfortable with. But I've also been sideswiped by way more sound men and watched pro's berate and cajole from the stage only have it make them look bad and not the guy at the board. It was only a suggestion that you talk to the sound man beforehand and then adjust accordingly and try not to be locked into your way of doing things.

[onassis]

Dealing with sound guys who aren't accustomed to working a completely acoustic group is tricky. I don't feel like I have enough PA skills or experience to be telling them how to do their job, but I've been in some situations where they were obviously not up to the task. Some seem to have no idea what to do when the instruments don't plug in and the musicians don't want 100+ db of monitor. I can't even recall how many festival gigs I've played that should have been super simple, with a good acoustic environment (open stage, no hard reflective surfaces, all dynamic mics), but they turned into a feedback nightmare because the sound guy didn't know how to handle micing instruments. I've finally learned to insist that that they turn my monitor almost off. So many times they've had the monitors at such obscene levels that I would get gun-shy about approaching the mic, so they would crank the gain even more.

[almeriastrings]

. I've finally learned to insist that that they turn my monitor almost off. So many times they've had the monitors at such obscene levels that I would get gun-shy about approaching the mic, so they would crank the gain even more.

One issue - and it is a serious, real one - I'm not being sarcastic, is that if you are dealing with sound tech's who mostly do rock, in many, many, cases these guys have impaired hearing as a result. That job takes its toll. Combine that with lack of knowledge on how to handle acoustic gigs, and you have a nightmare in progress.

[allenhopkins]

Dealing with sound guys who aren't accustomed to working a completely acoustic group is tricky. I don't feel like I have enough PA skills or experience to be telling them how to do their job, but I've been in some situations where they were obviously not up to the task. Some seem to have no idea what to do when the instruments don't plug in and the musicians don't want 100+ db of monitor. I can't even recall how many festival gigs I've played that should have been super simple, with a good acoustic environment (open stage, no hard reflective surfaces, all dynamic mics), but they turned into a feedback nightmare because the sound guy didn't know how to handle micing instruments...

Interesting (to me, anyway) anecdote: years ago, Walt Michael & Co. were hired to play an outdoor gig in a lakeside park here in Rochester. I knew Walt, pretty casually, but we'd jammed a bit in the past and I'd been at several of his gigs. I got to the park early, to chat with Walt and John Kirk before they played, and Walt said to me, "You know what our music sounds like; would you mind sitting next to the sound man and giving him a couple pointers?"

The guy from the sound rental company was cool with the idea -- I realize that other sound techs might have been resentful -- so I sat next to him as they did a sound check, and sure 'nuf, the bass and guitar dominated everything, the fiddle and hammered dulcimer were 'way back in the mix. So I tactfully suggested some adjustments, the sound guy was glad to go along with them, and I think the concert went better.

So that's an idea, that might work sometimes. If there's someone -- friend of the band, musician who knows the music, whatever -- who could act as an adviser for that particular band's set, some of these problems could be avoided. You need a receptive sound tech and a knowledgeable "friend," but perhaps that's a direction that could be taken.