Any idea when this Gibson A Model was manufactured

[robinson]

Looking for help trying to identify this Gibson A model (probably before 1923) based on the "GUARANTEED" label. I can not read the Number on the label but might be close to '1508'. Not sure. Bought it a flea market in 1998. Sounds awesome. What has me confused is the relatively short cloud profile tailpiece and it just says 'Gibson' not 'The Gibson' . Also has the original hard shell case. Thanks 135903

[mrmando]

Photo appears to show a Sheraton brown A2 made between 1918 and 1922. Pickguard missing. If the bridge is original, then this is from late 1921 or 1922, but it doesn't look like the original bridge to me. (See if it has a patent stamp on the base.)

The tailpiece has a post-1948 logo, so it was probably installed by the Gibson factory in the late 1940s or early 1950s.

If you can find the factory order number, stamped inside (usually on the neck block), that will be a big help in dating the mandolin.

[robinson]

Thank you so much. Yes that makes sense about the bridge not being original along with the tailpiece. It appears that the mandolin was damaged to the left of the neck base. Probably done at the factory because they did a great repair. (That would also explain the bridge and tailpiece replacement). Could not find a factory order number. Would that be stamped in the wood? Also, pardon my ignorance, but is the neck block internal or external? Just found this link to this 1920 Model A and it does not have a pick guard. Do you think the one on mine was removed?
http://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-model-a-1920
Thanks again!

[allenhopkins]

...Could not find a factory order number. Would that be stamped in the wood?...is the neck block internal or external? Just found this link to this 1920 Model A and it does not have a pick guard. Do you think the one on mine was removed?...

Look inside the mandolin, through the soundhole, up toward the neck. The neck block as at the "top" of the body, where the neck's attached. There should be a number ink-stamped there; the Factory Order Number (FON for short) was Gibson's internal processing number, assigned when a batch of instruments was manufactured. It differs from the serial number, which was assigned to each individual instrument when it was shipped out of the factory.

I believe that all Gibson A-model mandolins of this vintage originally had pickguards. Many have subsequently lost them, or their owners have removed them.

[Capt. E]

Just wanted to add that this mandolin is far from original. The top has been stripped (it is not Sheraton Brown now). The tailpiece has been replaced. The pick-guard (I prefer it to be called a finger-rest) is gone. The bridge has been replaced as well. It is indeed a model A-2 (a nice desirable model). If the serial number is 1508x (should be 5 digits) it would be 1919 or so. None of this means it could not be a nice player. Enjoy it.

[mrmando]

If the serial number is 1508x (should be 5 digits) it would be 1919 or so.
No, that would be way off. 1580X would be a 1913 ship date. The missing digit from the serial number is the first digit, and would be either a 5 (1919) or a 6 (1920).

It does appear that it was stripped and perhaps inexpertly refinished in a lighter shade of brown. While not original to the instrument, the tailpiece is a very cool Gibson tailpiece that is actually much harder to find than an original one.

[Capt. E]

Right...first digit 5 it is 1919, last digit 1913. I actually might go with the 1913 date looking at the color. 1919 A2's all had dark brown tops

[mrmando]

The top is closer to Sheraton brown than it is to pumpkin.

[Capt. E]

As I mentioned above, it looks like the top has been stripped. It is certainly nowhere near as dark as a Sheraton brown

[Timbofood]

I'm with Martin, top more likely started in "Sheraton Brown" too dark to have been a "pumpkin". I'd say it's had some rough days but, many years of playability in it.

[JeffD]

It is hard to tell. Might be my monitor. But I would not have guessed Sheraton Brown. Maybe it was stripped and inexpertly finished.

This is what I expect when someone says Sheraton Brown (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/album.php?albumid=10&attachmentid=50735).

I agree that it has much playability in it. If it sounds good, play the potatoes out of it. That would be my approach.

[Capt. E]

The picture is too light. In person, Sheraton Brown is a good bit darker. Regardless, it does look like it was stripped/re-finished. There are "natural" finished A's that were neither pumpkin nor sheraton.
What did Gibson call the finish we call "pumpkin"? I believe there were Natural, Sheraton Brown, Black and White (A-3's only). Of course, the sunburst finishes started in the Loar Era. Is "pumpkin" a color resulting from the aging of the varnish on an unstained top?

[Capt. E]

Looking at the Mandolin Archive, you see the following finishes: Orange, Red, Sheraton Brown, White, Black, Sunburst. Some of them are labeled "Pumpkin", which are the same as Orange. Seems to be interchangeable.

Whatever, don't want to get into any arguments. I equate it with calling the "guard" either a finger-rest, or a pick-guard. You say potato...

The mandolin featured in this thread has had some work done. Bottom line, just as said above: "If it sounds good, play the potatoes out of it."

[Timbofood]

I sometimes even say "spud"!
Ho, Ho, Ho!