Ouch! Just wondering what everyone's playing limit is [Archive]

plawren53202

Jun-15-2015, 12:37pm

Last night was the final practice before my first show with the new acoustic rock/indie band I'm playing mando with. I don't know what the longest continuous period was that I had played before in the past--maybe 1.5 hrs?--but we went nearly continuously (just breaks in between songs) for a little over three hours last night.

OUCH! :crying: I have decent callouses from years of guitar and mando, but my fingertips are sore like they haven't been since I first started playing guitar 20+ years ago. My left wrist and forearm are also quite sore today. I was just curious how long people are usually able to go without being noticeably/unusually sore afterward.

Luckily our shows are typically going to be 30 or 45 minutes, so I think this marathon session was a one-time deal.

terzinator

Jun-15-2015, 12:47pm

Well, if you go to a festival, you'll find that some jams go into the wee hours. (And that's after jamming all day!)

Maybe you're using a death grip on that neck? (I used to, but have really tried to lighten my touch.)

I find it helps to play some different chord shapes, too. Don't want to have that chop-G shape frozen into your cramped hand.

keithb

Jun-15-2015, 12:54pm

Our practices usually run 3 hours, and we play sets that long (usually with one break) pretty regularly. It certainly can beat up your hands (and voice) if you're not careful - nothing like a little pain to force you to reexamine your technique! :)

Tobin

Jun-15-2015, 12:55pm

Three hours isn't too bad. A typical evening jam session will be every bit of that. Longer in many cases, actually. I've been to jams that were 4-5 hours. I don't get out much to festivals, but of course you can play all day and night at one of those.

Personally, my minimum play time per day is an hour. Two, if I can squeeze it into my schedule. But if I have a day to myself, I'll play for a good 6-7 hours before my fingers tell me I need to stop.

JeffD

Jun-15-2015, 1:18pm

I routinely play jam sessions lasting more than two to three hours. At least once if not twice a week. Now obviously there are breaks and I sit out some tunes, so its not continuous playing.

At a festival I will be playing on and off all day every day.

T.D.Nydn

Jun-15-2015, 1:20pm

My usual limit is half an hour..I've had tendinitis in the past real bad and I must protect myself ,basically from myself.i practice a half hour,put it away,and pick it back up again in about an hour and a half for another half hour practice,,I do this all morning,afternoon and night,so in a day I get about 2-3 hours of practicing.i don't know what happened last Saturday night but I practiced for five hours almost straight and when I stopped my forearms were just burning up..

Marc Katz

Jun-15-2015, 1:33pm

I don't know what your ensemble is like, but if you're having to hit it real hard with the right hand, you're probably gripping real hard with the left too. I found it took several years to get to a lighter touch while still having some volume. At least now you're aware of the issue! Good luck with it.

EdHanrahan

Jun-15-2015, 1:53pm

If I've been playing regularly (no long trips w/out instrument), a four hour jam session (five including the pizza break!) is easily doable. Hit my limit back in college rock-band days, playing an upstate NY ski area on Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon for several weeks.

Beanzy

Jun-15-2015, 2:20pm

Never really thought about time before now. Most group rehearsals I do would be three hours but I'll often do a Saturday morning fiddle group then mandolin orchestra in the afternoon and go home to practice something specific for an hour or so after dinner. The only one that can be an ache is the Irish stuff as the triplets and ornaments at speed for so long can aggravate my osteoarthritis a bit in a three hour session, especially if I do a lot on the mandoloncello. I'm thinking the speed may lead to my being more prone to the cumulative effect of so many small impacts.

Steve Ostrander

Jun-15-2015, 2:52pm

In my trio practice sessions are 3 hrs. once a week. Gigs are typically three sets (45 min. with 15 min. break) but sometimes 4 sets. My fingers and wrists are OK but the late gigs are tough. I'm no spring chicken anymore. I'm not used to being up after midnight. I'm usually tired the next day.

Randi Gormley

Jun-15-2015, 3:05pm

Saturday's ITM session went from 5:15 to about 9:15 p.m., but of course, it's not continuous play; I sit out an occasional tune and we sit and gossip for a bit between sets. A lot of ITM is like that -- but when I was doing a classical workshop two weeks ago, we played from 10 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. with one 15-minute break, and then from 2:30 to nearly 6 p.m. with a 15-minute break. by the third day, the rehearsal after lunch came with some pain. To tell the truth, though, I felt more pain just sitting that long without moving. It was tough to stand up.

I also have some osteoarthritis in my left hand along with carpal tunnel, but I've modified my hand position and grip (and chosen a narrower mandolin neck) so that part of the experience hasn't been a problem.

OldSausage

Jun-15-2015, 3:17pm

I find three hours playing at a gig or unfamiliar jam is much harder on my hands than three or four hours' practice or idle picking with friends, mainly because the anxiety/excitement level will be higher, so accuracy will be down and that leads to more finger wear and tear.

I also think technically there are some moves that just are more tiring for me on the left fingers, such as playing in higher positions, executing nice clean slides and so on, whereas running a lot of scales in first position is much more doable. And I think playing continuously without breaks like that in a performance situation is something I would avoid whenever possible.

Tobin

Jun-15-2015, 3:41pm

I also think technically there are some moves that just are more tiring for me on the left fingers, such as playing in higher positions, executing nice clean slides and so on, whereas running a lot of scales in first position is much more doable.

Good point. Maximum playing time really depends on what you're doing. I can play for a lot longer if I'm doing a good balance of melody and chording, where I get some variety with my left hand. What will kill my left hand is spending too much time doing a G chop chord, like for hours on end. That's where I think it's important to "mix it up" in terms of different keys and different styles of music. If everyone at a jam is picking songs in G, where I spend most of my time playing chop chords, I start to get cramps and aches in my left hand (fingertips usually are OK). So I'll purposefully pick a tune in D or A when it's my turn. Or I'll switch over to playing different chord shapes, doing light fills, or something to give my left hand a break from the chop shape. It seems to help.

MysTiK PiKn

Jun-15-2015, 4:26pm

Repetitive Strain Injury? Hold your beer with the other hand. :crying:
I haven't been at the mandolin too long; but I have been to grass fests and jams running well over 3 hours. I will stop if it gets bad. Some mandolin chords are really quite awful.

I don't think it's good to just quit doing stuff. Doing different things, and being constantly aware of the problem, and the solution, and the good feeling as well as all that dark side stuff - basically I stay in touch with my self, and I pay attention to the warnings.

I did damage operating machines - doctor said it would always be a problem. So I cheated, like everything, and I moved into the solution. There are many very personal adjustments, different ways of doing, simply watching to see what I am doing and what causes pain and what doesn't. Sometimes I just sit and place arm, hand, fingers in total rest position. Other times, I move slowly, turn my hand over, extend an arm, adjust a wrist position. I talk to hurting parts; and they talk back to me. We are very sentient beings. Choose reality rather than a belief in pain and sickness and death. It's quite insane to choose destructive alternatives.

I am not invincible but if I look after myself, I can do the impossible. I am the only one who can heal me, or help me. I hate doctors with a passion - I just don't go there. I don't use painkillers, or other over the counter poisons. Nutrition is what doesn't support MD,bigPharma. People don't know how to eat. White sugar is death. (genocide) Building the immune system puts dr death out of business. But they don't talk about that in any real depth. They deal in disease; have you noticed? Oh, there's no cure for that; you'll just have to live with that. (spit that out).

And for real problems, they are consulted re areas where their discipline does not extend; and they are respected for making those extensions for profit and preservation of confusion. Watch and you will see it, with your seeing. Depend on them and you will be dependent. There is unlimited nutritional and spiritual information out there. Doctors have their place; but they should stay in their place. Treating people like they are idiots is criminal; keeping people uneducated is an illusion - you can easily learn all that you don't know by generalizing, knowing the unknowable, by watching, doing the impossible through unlimted power and resources and spirit. You can see this only if you want to; but it will never be popular. Popular is what is preyed upon. It's a strange form of nutrition. I am not well fed there.

I don't consider my repetitive strain a problem for a doctor. I manage it rather than burden some incompetent. I educate myself about foods and what they do rather than wander lost gathering. I hunt for more always. It's not in 'education'. I have weapons they don't understand; cos I have seen. I am a sentient being and am not limited by the upper limits of others. I had much help on the way here; and would share all that was given freely. You can pull it out of the air, also. And live in freedom. Use all available resources. It's the basics of our culture; and it's hidden away by mongers; but it will always be found, again, elsewhere. Pick up your bed and walk. Minor, simple miracle. The voice that precedes thought. Physician, heal thyself first. It's just a little too simple, and untouchable.
"There's a crack, a crack in everything; that's how the light gets in". - Leonard Cohen.
Peace.
Myst.

journeybear

Jun-15-2015, 5:39pm

Used to be the typical gig here was a four-hour shift. Most people will take a break or two in there, of course. But my first steady gig was with a guy who played mostly classic country while pounding down enough shots of Jim Beam to add up to a quart, while working over the folks sitting at the bar, one corner of which was just a few feet from where we sat. He believed we would lose people if we took a break, so we wouldn't. He would have to go pee at some point )see above), leaving me to keep them entertained in the meantime. Playing three times a week this way meant building up some tough calluses as well as some thick skin elsewhere. ;)

Things have gotten better. Nowadays I am playing three-hour shifts in a band, so I'm playing less often in two ways. But still, my fingers can get tired. One thing I do is switch fingerings around a bit now and then so they don't get in a rut. That can mean playing the open G chord 0023 with my ring finger and pinky rather than index and middle fingers, same with the open D chord 2002. There are certain songs that are more suitable for this than others, naturally, and even if they come up earlier in the show I may do this anyway, figuring the rest my fingers get will be helpful anyway. Also, there are some songs I lay out of in parts, for the sake of dynamics or the arrangement, and these moments come in handy sometimes. And now and then I'll stretch my fingers one way or and another. There'a always something you can do. ;)

stevedenver

Jun-15-2015, 6:04pm

id would say.....
don't take the posts here as a guide

the only guide is how YOUR hands (etc) feel, as your body is unique

sausage has it right imho, as does the jbear and mkatz
lighten up, ( I am trying to figure this out, as I like clarity in chords , and its difficult to find 'just enough' pressure, but this magic zone also gives a unique mando tone I think)

for me its so easy to get competitive, excited, in the moment, and super charged, and ignore discomfort-

for me, 3 hours playing loud enough to be heard in an open market unamped, jam, etc will fatigue both hands-usually my rh goes before my left-theres a point where I simply can no longer grip my pick, LH is usually close behind however

-(I have a super large thumb pick kinda thing for such times, so I don't drop it as my hand is simply spent and balks, at any more gripping, and I get a bit more leverage without effort-)

take breaks, take this seriously from one who had long lasting issues after over doing it at a long jam session-

it can take months of rest if you get trigger finger issues (this is simply the term for inflammation that results from over gripping)

fwiw never had this with guitar for equally long or longer periods of playing

as soon as I feel any discomfort or fatigue, I stop and rest. rest in order to play another day..........its ok to sit out a few tunes

you should become attuned to this for you.

Paul Busman

Jun-15-2015, 6:47pm

How is the setup on your mandolin? If it's not really good, the mandolin is a lot harder and more painful to play. If you need to play for long periods you might want to try lighter strings too.

Emmett Marshall

Jun-15-2015, 7:29pm

I don't play as much as most of you guys but.......

Stretching my fingers before, after, and sometimes when taking breaks has helped me quite a bit. I have no regrets about spending the money on this (http://www.amazon.com/YogaHands-Exerciser-Stretcher-Alleviate-Tendonitis/dp/B0052TF4ZK/ref=sr_1_1/176-1092564-4341919?ie=UTF8&qid=1434414440&sr=8-1&keywords=yoga+hands).

I can tell a difference. My fingers don't get as cramped up or inflamed as they used to. I think of it like stretching my legs really good before jogging.

As for the fingertips. I agree with what others are saying about lowering the action.

colorado_al

Jun-15-2015, 7:31pm

I'd get your setup checked. It may be that you can lower the action some and avoid the problem. I used to have issues when I first started playing mandolin, and had played guitar for aver 10 years. Once I got a good setup on my mandolin, I was able to play for hours without a problem.

Last night was the final practice before my first show with the new acoustic rock/indie band I'm playing mando with. I don't know what the longest continuous period was that I had played before in the past--maybe 1.5 hrs?--but we went nearly continuously (just breaks in between songs) for a little over three hours last night.

OUCH! :crying: I have decent callouses from years of guitar and mando, but my fingertips are sore like they haven't been since I first started playing guitar 20+ years ago. My left wrist and forearm are also quite sore today. I was just curious how long people are usually able to go without being noticeably/unusually sore afterward.

Luckily our shows are typically going to be 30 or 45 minutes, so I think this marathon session was a one-time deal.

foldedpath

Jun-15-2015, 8:22pm

id would say.....
don't take the posts here as a guide

the only guide is how YOUR hands (etc) feel, as your body is unique

I agree; too many variables in player age, experience, physiology, and what your regular practice regime is like.

Also the kind of band or jam you're playing in. I can go three hours easily in a local Scottish/Irish session, because I'm not playing on every single tune (sitting out the ones I don't know), and I can lay back a bit, in the mix of other players.

On a paid gig, it's different. The configuration of our current all-instrumental "Celtic" duo has me playing the main instrumental melody on almost every single tune and set. I have to be *on* and leading the show, with not much pause between the tunes.

So for a paid gig, I'm comfortable with a 2-hour show, split between two 50 minute sets and a break in-between. If someone wants to pay us to play three hours, they're going to have to pay very well for that third hour. And they might hear a few tunes repeated.... which doesn't matter in our typical wedding gigs where people are starting to get plastered at that point anyway.
;)

I think I could do three+ hours easily if I was part of the rhythm section in a band, where I didn't have to lead the whole thing with instrumentals. That's a lot of work, and I'm not getting any younger. Speaking of which, I'm in my early 60's now, and the old grey mare ain't what she used to be. In my 20's and 30's I would have laughed at the idea of putting down the axe at a mere three hours. Which gets back to point #1, above. All our circumstances here are different, so beware of drawing general conclusions.

JeffD

Jun-15-2015, 9:10pm

For a while my playing limit was about 30 minutes. If I pushed it I got stinging pain in my fingers and wrist. If I really pushed it the pain would last for days. No amount of warm up or exercise could lessen it. Especially my index finger. I was thinking it was not going to be mandolin deployable someday. I talked with a physical therapist and was referred to a different physical therapist that specializes in the ailments of musician.

This went on for the better part of a year I think, until, entirely unrelatedly the results of a blood test as part of a routine physical showed I have diabetes. I took medication, changed diet, brought my blood sugar under control, and the pain went away. Gone. In two days I could play for hours without any pain at all. Has never come back. Like real magic. Gone and gone for ever.

I shudder when I think of what irreversible neuropathy I swerved away from at the last minute.

Just please be careful. I am not saying you, or anyone, has diabetes. I am only saying, from experience, that what you are suffering from may not be what you are suffering from. Get it checked.

Petrus

Jun-15-2015, 9:46pm

I don't practice/play nearly as much as a lot of people here, but when I'm not playing I use a little finger exerciser to keep the joints nimble (great when you're sitting in traffic, etc.) Using one excessively can do more harm than good though. I also warm up, literally, before an extended stint of playing by soaking my hands in hot water (just at the edge of uncomfortably hot) for a few minutes. It does wonders. You might also do it after a long playing session.

You might also consider a different design of mandolin. I've found that my thick-necked Breedlove Crossover is far more comfortable than my thin-necked Eastman. Some players swear by radiused fretboards too. If it's not practical to give up your main axe, maybe you can at least alternate with another one, or use a more comfortable one for longer sessions or practice, etc.

Mandobart

Jun-15-2015, 9:53pm

Well since you asked...
These days I'm not playing much, due to extreme work hours (12 hour shifts, 04:30 - 17:00 x 6 days per week). But, I've been known to play a two hour show on Monday, 2 hr jam on Tuesday, open mic/jam on Wed for about 3 hrs playing, another Thurs jam, 2 hour show Friday at the Farmers Market until noon then a 2 hour afternoon jam at my friend's music shop. Usually practice 1 to 2 hours each day when I'm not putting in crazy work hours. I believe in stretching and hydration. I've never had sore anything from playing.

Pasha Alden

Jun-16-2015, 12:47am

In comparison to many here, my times for playing are short. Two hours or even an hour. I don't belong to a formal band.

Though ever tried playing on a cold day? Numb fingers, sitting playing mandolin slipping?

Nothing like it.

Just holding on for dear life and trying to rest hands aching from the cold. Almost lost my pick and the mandolin. Thank heavens I still managed my solos and the rhythm and chord parts. My left hand was almost out of use.

I would like to hear further tricks of getting to certain chords, as I believe playing one chord and then having to manage a particularly taxing one can really be a demand for a numb, or tired hand.

Pasha Alden

Jun-16-2015, 12:48am

Thanks to paul Busman. I will keep the lighter strings in mind too. Pleased with action of both my mandolins!

Bertram Henze

Jun-16-2015, 12:54am

ITM sessions about 4 hrs each, but often I leave after 3 hrs - not because it hurts, but because I'm tired and have to rise early the next morning.
Playing is not supposed to hurt, so if it does you're doing something wrong.

Mike Snyder

Jun-16-2015, 1:57am

Weekend campouts and the big festival at Winfield we might get in 7 or 8 hours of picking. I can stand it on the tenor banjo OK but if I feel that we need rhythm on the mandolin (the famous Irish trad chop) the hand will cramp a bit. The challenge is the 3rd or 4th day of an 11 day Winfield wonder fest when it hurts but it's gonna get played anyway so you just strap on your big boy attitude and play through. Glory will not be won without pain.

pheffernan

Jun-16-2015, 5:44am

Bertram Henze

Jun-16-2015, 6:19am

I also warm up, literally, before an extended stint of playing by soaking my hands in hot water (just at the edge of uncomfortably hot) for a few minutes. It does wonders.

Doesn't that practice soften your calluses?

I'd also expect that side effect. Warming up, however, is essential. I do all kinds of exercises with my hands before playing, so I don't have a jump start on cold muscles; I also keep them thermally warm - one of the reasons I rarely play outdoors.

JeffD

Jun-16-2015, 12:04pm

I use those isoflex balls.

OldSausage

Jun-16-2015, 12:18pm

While I'm sure it won't do any harm, I have never warmed up in my life for anything. I think most warming up is nonsense, even for sport and other large scale physical exercise where you might actually tire your muscles, and I think the idea that you can somehow prepare your fingers for the (what should not be) arduous task of playing the mandolin by giving them a good wiggle first seems wholly bananas to me. Now, I'm sure if you're actually physically freezing cold then you should keep warm, don't get wrong. But otherwise, I advise you to reclaim some of your precious wasted life from this pointless task.

And here's my (admittedly somewhat flimsy) evidence for these doubtless unpopular opinions:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/health/opinion-health/bad-medicine/9321072/bad-medicine-myth-of-the-warm-up/

Bertram Henze

Jun-16-2015, 1:11pm

Somebody telling me that one or two drinks tonight make him suffer the whole next day must be constructed very differently from me.
If I don't do this warming up, the first 30 minutes are wasted with stiff and clumsy playing. But doing it in the car en route to the session, I play easily and fluently from the start.

Carl Robin

Jun-16-2015, 1:36pm

I've been playing mandolin for less than 4 years, and time limit is my biggest challenge. A few years ago, I would get stiffened up after 5 minutes. I would have to stretch out hanging from a chin-up bar. Now I'm up to about 30 minutes. Learning to "relax" and play with a lighter touch is a learned skill that takes awareness, and practice, lots of practice. I don't know how it would have been in my 20's, but now at 3 times that age, progress is still possible. The chin-up bar is my friend. The routine is the same: play hard and fast, hit a wall, take a break, stretch out, repeat. I intend to reach that 2 hour level as soon as possible. It has been my experience that stiff muscles that are then stretched out recover, and improve. Sore fingertips are best ignored. They will automatically get tougher.

Tobin

Jun-16-2015, 2:10pm

If I don't do this warming up, the first 30 minutes are wasted with stiff and clumsy playing. But doing it in the car en route to the session, I play easily and fluently from the start.

Me too. I always flex my hand and try to gently stretch my fingers while I'm driving to wherever I'll be playing. It seems to help reduce the amount of time it takes me to get fluid in my playing. It won't allow me to start off at 100%, but it gives me a head start.

And as much as I respect David Mold's usual mandolin advice, I strongly disagree that warmup is useless. Nobody plays the same in the first five minutes as they do after an hour. Nobody. Even professionals do warmup time before a concert or a gig. Because they know that it takes a while to get the blood flowing and the muscles/tendons/ligaments/whatever limber.

There may be bad science or myths out there as to how much warmup is really required for athletes and such, but no one can seriously make the case that any physical activity is 100% from a cold start.

JeffD

Jun-16-2015, 2:32pm

We are ignoring, I think, that there is a few different things meant by warm up.

Warming up playing, like running through a tune or riff before we start playing, is different from say stretching and flexing our hand before picking up the instrument, which is different again from putting our hands under our arms to increase their temperature.

Which of these things, if not all of them, is pointless? I think the Dave and the article are talking about the second meaning.

bratsche

Jun-16-2015, 3:01pm

Nobody plays the same in the first five minutes as they do after an hour. Nobody. Even professionals do warmup time before a concert or a gig.

I've never done any of the hand flexing or stretching stuff, ever. I just warm up before a rehearsal or performance by getting there a little early and practicing my part. That's always been sufficient for me to get my blood flowing and my muscles limber.

bratsche

farmerjones

Jun-16-2015, 3:36pm

I don't want to leave my best punches in the locker room, so I don't really warm up either. There nothing I play in a jam or gig that's as taxing as the tunes I try for myself in practice. Last Sat. I played for four straight hours, and have gone as long as six. Gigs ,we give a nod to the union 50 minutes per hour. Sometimes we string 100 minutes together and take a twenty, instead of a ten, if it's rolling nicely.

FLATROCK HILL

Jun-16-2015, 3:41pm

Somebody telling me that one or two drinks tonight make him suffer the whole next day must be constructed very differently from me.

I had a hard time figuring out just what prompted that comment. After reading the article linked by Old Sausage, I get it!...and I agree.

Playing the mandolin, like most any physical activity requires conditioning...regular practice without overdoing it.
Feeling fine in the morning after a couple of Scotches the night before might require a certain amount of dedication too. ;)

Gary Leonard

Jun-16-2015, 9:07pm

My playing limit is usually determined by my wife's listening limit. Bless her heart, she does put up with a lot, as I am just working past the beginner lessons.

Ivan Kelsall

Jun-17-2015, 3:38am

Going back many years to the time when UK Bluegrass Festivals were pretty new over here,folk used to travel maybe 100 + miles to get to one.You can be sure they made the most of it when the got there. I've jammed on banjo virtually all day & most of the night,non-stop, until i was ready to drop !. Folk used to drift in & out of the sessions which was always good,because they brought their own song bag with them. I sincerely wish i had the chance to do it all again on an instrument that's 13lb lighter than my Stelling banjo !,:(
Ivan:cool:135490

Tobin

Jun-17-2015, 7:33am

Going back many years to the time when UK Bluegrass Festivals were pretty new over here,folk used to travel maybe 100 + miles to get to one.You can be sure they made the most of it when the got there.

LOL, you make it sound like 100 miles is a long way to travel!

A few years ago I was visiting with an Irish couple at a party, and they were astounded at the distance we Americans travel for everyday things. My daily commute is 54 miles each way, and they just couldn't believe it. They told me that usually anything more than 10 miles away from home would be an overnight trip for them. That made me chuckle, considering that we sometimes drive more than 30 miles away just to go out for supper.

But I guess it's like they say. To Europeans, 100 miles is a long way. To Americans, 100 years is a long time.

Carl Robin

Jun-17-2015, 7:40am

On the topic of warming up, when the environment is cold, and I feel cold and have cold hands, playing any instrument is next to impossible. The answer is to warm up, as in climb a few flights of stairs, or some other way to warm up from the inside. Then when first picking up the mandolin, 15 or twenty seconds tuning and playing a few notes is enough for the minor kind of warm up--just loosening up the fingers, orienting to the fretboard.

Bertram Henze

Jun-17-2015, 8:23am

LOL, you make it sound like 100 miles is a long way to travel!

Perceived distance is measured not in miles, but
1 - in how much attention is required to take the road:

https://s3-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http://www.scotland-flavour.co.uk/pictures/applecross_wester_ross_scotland_1787.jpg&sp=16da8e38792c260086a9fd268c98a3dehttps://s3-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3404/3277901391_82199e5a0d_z.jpg&sp=38d17e3d5fb5ce047d72175d7fd167a4

2 - cost of fuel.

k0k0peli

Jun-17-2015, 8:38am

IMHO warm-ups are more mental rituals than physical. In my time as a busker, I didn't warm up, I just played, sometimes for 6-8 hours straight with brief breaks for fluid I/O. My current "playing limit" is more a function of boredom than anything else. And cool-downs? That's when I numb my aching feet in a cold stream after climbing a peak.

OldSausage

Jun-17-2015, 8:42am

LOL, you make it sound like 100 miles is a long way to travel!

A few years ago I was visiting with an Irish couple at a party, and they were astounded at the distance we Americans travel for everyday things. My daily commute is 54 miles each way, and they just couldn't believe it. They told me that usually anything more than 10 miles away from home would be an overnight trip for them. That made me chuckle, considering that we sometimes drive more than 30 miles away just to go out for supper.

But I guess it's like they say. To Europeans, 100 miles is a long way. To Americans, 100 years is a long time.

This is all nonsense. When I lived in England I frequently had a 55 mile daily commute and thought nothing of it, and neither did anyone else. My brother who still lives there regularly drives well over 200 miles in a day for his job.

Now, go back 45 years to when the road system was somewhat more bucolic, and you might have a point. Possibly your Irish guests had the same issues.

It is true that people who live in England think you will have driven off the end of the world if you go more than 400 miles, but that is because England is only 400 miles long. In continental Europe, people drive all over the place like nutters, just like they do here in the US.

Paul Haley

Jun-17-2015, 8:50am

Love the last sentence in Tobin's post (I live in England. We're commemorating the signing of Magna Carta this year. It was signed in 1215 :-))

OldSausage

Jun-17-2015, 8:53am

Love that last sentence (I live in England. We're commemorating the signing of Magna Carta this year. It was signed in 1215 :-))

I remember it well. In those days, you could buy a pint of beer for less than the price of a half.

Bertram Henze

Jun-17-2015, 9:08am

I remember it well. In those days, you could buy a pint of beer for less than the price of a half.

On which side did you fight? Were you King John's CTE? :whistling:

Paul Haley

Jun-17-2015, 10:11am

I was in the Royal Mandolin Regiment

Paul Haley

Jun-17-2015, 10:17am

John Ritchhart

Jun-17-2015, 11:01am

In keeping with this direction, we play 25 hours a day 8 days a week. Dad makes us use barbed wire for strings and sands our callouses off every night before beating us with a guitar strap and putting us to bed in our little shack which is a box at the bottom of the lake. We get cold gravel for breakfast and start playing again first thing. We play Rawhide for 48 hours and then switch to Bach. And if you told that to the young mando phenoms of today - they wouldn't believe it.

Bertram Henze

Jun-17-2015, 11:34am

King John died after a feast at Newark castle on the night of 18 October 1216 from dysentery. I live just a few miles away. As you can see from the photo it's still not finished. English construction workers are very sloooow.!

135497

Incidentally, the German word for dysentery is Ruhr, which is also the name of a river flowing through the area where I live. So my connection with the Magna Carta is obvious...

JeffD

Jun-17-2015, 12:21pm

My current "playing limit" is more a function of boredom than anything else..

I have no way to understand this. I accept what you say, but I have no experience of it to reference. I have never been bored with a mandolin in my hands. Exhausted, uncomfortable, tired of sucking so bad, frustrated, angry, impatient, sleepy, inebriated, any or all of that perhaps, but never ever bored.

Even when in a jam that is no challenge, playing war horses I got tired of playing years ago, I marvel at making music, making sounds musical (even if I am perhaps the only one trying to be musical), and I am endlessly entertained by what I might try next time through, or not, and why.

My limit is rarely physical. Hunger, or a bathroom break perhaps. (What do heart surgeons do?)

More often than not its that the jam piddles out, or maybe gets rained out, or something on the main stage in 15 minutes attracts everyone out of the jam, or the bar closes, or the last train home is in 10 minutes. At times it has been "better finish up honey, we have to go to...".

Many a beer has gone warm waiting for me to finish up "one more tune".

Tobin

Jun-17-2015, 12:58pm

More often than not its that the jam piddles out, or maybe gets rained out, or something on the main stage in 15 minutes attracts everyone out of the jam, or the bar closes, or the last train home is in 10 minutes. At times it has been "better finish up honey, we have to go to...".
The last one is always the killer for me. I usually head to the jam straight from work - it's an hour away from my office. So I'm there by 6pm when it starts up. I usually have to leave by 8pm so I can drive another half-hour home, grab some supper, do my chores, and get to bed for work the next morning. I hate having to walk out of a jam that's still lively, with only 2 hours worth of playing, but that's the sad life of a working stiff.

k0k0peli

Jun-17-2015, 5:57pm

I have no way to understand this. I accept what you say, but I have no experience of it to reference. I have never been bored with a mandolin in my hands. Exhausted, uncomfortable, tired of sucking so bad, frustrated, angry, impatient, sleepy, inebriated, any or all of that perhaps, but never ever bored. Oh, not necessarily mandolin -- it could be a guitar, uke, Cumbus, dulcimer, whatever -- after some time fingering something, my mind (what's left of it) drifts off and thinks about software, sex, steak, something else. The process is accelerated by jamming with folk who insist on playing the same stuff repeatedly, relentlesly, and badly. My fingers get bored with the repetition. Yes, fingers yawn, too.

Ivan Kelsall

Jun-18-2015, 6:03am

Tobin - I don't think that for us Brits. a 100 miles is seen as a 'long way',but there has to be a darned good reason for making the 200 mile round trip,& you need the enthusiasm to make it. I've made 3 x 410 mile round trips to TAMCO in Brighton UK - by train,each trip made in a day & very enjoyable in being able to sit & watch the scenery. I don't drive,but if i did,making such a trip by car would be a non-starter unless i stayed overnight. The distances between some points in the US to others,has to be travelled to be believed. Unless anybody has visited the USA & travelled around like i have,the vast size of your country simply doesn't 'compute',:disbelief:
Ivan;)

JeffD

Jun-18-2015, 9:23am

-- after some time fingering something, my mind (what's left of it) drifts off and thinks about software, sex, steak, something else. The process is accelerated by jamming with folk who insist on playing the same stuff repeatedly, relentlesly, and badly. My fingers get bored with the repetition. Yes, fingers yawn, too.

I have sympathy.

If a jam is intent on playing a war horse tune relentlessly and not as musically as I would prefer, I sometimes switch to playing the tune without my index finger. Just for yuks. (At one point in my life I was worried I would lose that finger, and so I started learning to play without it. The problem was corrected, and there is no reason to think it won't be as serviceable as the others - the up side is that it strengthened the rest of the fingers.) It can me a fun exercise.

I was at a "slow jam" recently, an accommodation to newbies that they do for the first hour of the jam. I detuned my mandolin in cross - (GDGD) - and it was a real challenge to play everything I thought I knew. Kind of fun. And I appreciated the lack of speed and the repetition.

OK there is a way I get bored at a jam. When it devolves into a committee meeting. When the music stops and folks start to visit and talk. Its nice and all but I get impatient. My favorite jams are when the visiting is done before, or after, the jam. :)

Nothing will make me think of leaving a jam faster than a political discussion. We have a couple of real opinionated folks and its like there is an on switch you can bump into accidently, but no discernable off switch. So I guess that is another limit.