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Resolve
Jun-01-2015, 10:48am
Hi Everyone. This is my first post. I come seeking wisdom and advice... hopefully both. ;)

I've been playing guitar for about 10 years. I'm just a strummer. Somehow I've managed to get paired up with amazing lead players and have never really progressed beyond that for which I was needed and know little about music theory. I currently play/sing in a duo and we get gigs here and there.

I've become acquainted with mandolin through the music to which my duo partner has acquainted me but claim no real knowledge of many of the genres that feature mandolin. I love the music of Della Mae... probably more of what one might call "newgrass".

Just as when I took up guitar, there are questions asked that are intended to guide one toward mandolin purchase. Now as back when I knew nothing about guitar, I couldn't answer those questions. I have a "general curiosity".

I find that little instrument intriguing with its 2 strings per note construction as well as its long history. I love the idea of something so small in size on which to noodle...like having a lap dog instead of a golden retriever while loving both. I bought a couple of inexpensive little ukes (Dolphins) in hopes of engaging my granddaughter (now 3) who loves to "strum along on her Barbie guitar" when I play my Martin. With some accompanying chord charts I can play/sing with that little thing and it's "fun" but I don't like the sound enough to really spend a lot of time/effort.

I have a lot of questions... but don't know enough about the instrument to even know how to formulate them! One thing I know is that I'd like to be able to pick out more melodies than I do on guitar. I don't play lead at ALL and I don't "jam" but I'd like to be able to do both as "goals" for learning mandolin. In terms of the instrument itself, I'll be most attracted to a more bass-y sound.

One thing I learned in my guitar journey is "start with a good instrument". I played for 2 years on a $200 guitar before buying my Martin. I wish I'd bought the Martin from the get go.

I'm female and don't have very big hands. I've been doing a little reading/research and think the Eastman 305 could be a good choice. However I have a friend who is a luthier who is on the lookout for a used instrument that he'd repair/set up for me if he finds one. He's really good so I trust him and it would be nice if I didn't have to lay out a lot of money upfront.

I contacted my former guitar teacher and got his recommendation for a mandolin teacher. Once I get an instrument I will contact him

Soo... that's about as much as I "know" at this point. Any "thoughts" you have after reading this would be most welcome.

Thanks for letting me join the party. :)

Resolve
Jun-01-2015, 10:57am
Sorry... just edited.... the mandolin I was considering is the Eastman 305 not 505

terrapin
Jun-01-2015, 11:02am
The 305 is a great little instrument and is hard to beat at any price under $1000. I bought one almost brand new for $400 and my luthier friend says it sounds and plays darn near as good as his Collings.

JeffD
Jun-01-2015, 11:04am
One thought to help you calibrate the mandolin market. A mandolin typically costs about twice that of a guitar of similar quality. So if you have a quality in mind, and you have a rough idea what a guitar of that quality would cost, then double it and that is the ballpark for the mandolin of that quality.

Or as many think of it - determine your budget. Then think of what quality guitar you can get for half of that budget. That is roughly what to expect.

There are exceptions. Try and play on one before you buy.

Getting a good mandolin teacher is excellent. Get someone who plays and teaches mandolin mostly, not someone who is a guitar teacher mostly who also plays mandolin. There is enough difference that it really matters.

Lots of good videos and stuff on line to get you started. Pay attention to the differences - you want to play mandolin, not play guitar on a mandolin.

Big fun coming your way.

stevedenver
Jun-01-2015, 11:06am
a few thoughts, not well considered either, so bear with me

I too am a guitar player come to mandolin. I however, am able to play solos and breaks. That being said, I happen to feel good rhythm playing to be perhaps the epitome of a good guitarist in the broadest sense of musical accompaniement.

yes the mandolin is delightfully portable. I love only having a small case to schlepp to gigs.

mandolin is also, in BG , largely a rhythm instrument as well, the snare drum on beats 2 and 4 if you will..AND, if you play mando, more or less, you will need to be able to play a break eventually.

the mando has greater string tension, so you will have a period of adjustment and may find chording and fingering take a bit more effort at first. mando has less sustain, so you may think its plinky sounding compared to guitar, for a while.

I found it very easy to learn, and after only a few months, almost intuitive as to how to pick out melodies. I suggest that first you learn to play some songs, by chording (two finger easy ones to start) and singing along. Here on this forum at the top left of the page, there are many nice tabs, and songs you will know. Chose 3-4 you like and try to learn them.

Mandolin, good or bad, will likely make you play more bluegrass than other genres. BG is not my first love, but I have been playing a lot of it since getting serious about mandolin. the music fits, and mandolin players are useable, and perhaps, favored to some extent.

first suggestion, pre purchase , is to buy mandolin for dummies-for about 20 bucks you will get a lot of info and oversight.

second, decide your budget. simply, and sadly, mandolins are 2-4 times the price of an equivalent guitar-ie your martin is 2K, an equivalent mandolin will be between 2.5 and 5 k, or more, deciding on the body shape you chose. a or f. soundwise, there is no difference, provided the neck length and shape of hole is the same. this price jump is very hard to accept at first. I hated it. then I accepted it.

I also will add, and many will differ, a better mandolin, ie 'spensive, to me is inspiring, and does sound and play better, generally. As it is a 'fussy' or precise and demanding thing, a good mandolin is a leg up. You have pride in your instrument and you know you can get the good sound, and there is no hurdle, no excuses, other than your willingness to work and practice and refine your technique. Sounds like 'stuff'?

I guarantee that within a year of work, your ear will be highly sensitized, and you will recognize the difference in sound as well as feel.

F holes are most popular for the 'cut' and acceptance in bluegrass, jazz and other genres. oval holes are more folkie, celtic, oldtime, and, of course, jimmy page and john paul jones used them in the zeppelin tunes. imho, a f hole mandolin will have better resale to a general market.

I cannot suggest strongly enough, a teacher will make your progress much faster. once you get legs, then self teaching will be easy.

after a while playing melodies, I found it very easy to 'find' or pick out melodies on mandolin, the step towards soloing. once you get there, you may well return to guitar and do the same.

to cut to the chase, the eastmans I have heard and played seem very nice value.

Depending upon your budget, I might start with an A shaped collings mandolin. why? they are really consistent in build and sound, they sound great, and are very very playable. this mandolin will carry you a long time, until such time as you may want more or higher end. There are many other fine makers. I suggested this one because of its uniform quality and ease of resale and recognized name. buy from a good seller.
I mention this only because of your wish I had started with a martin comment.


if you prefer bassy sound, then, you may well prefer an x braced mandolin over a traditional tone bar bracing. you may also prefer an oval hole , known for their tubby sound compared to an F.
if this seems cryptic, go to you tube and do 2 searches, one for oval hole Gibson clips and one for f style Gibson clips (I refer to the f hole versions) listen compare and decide. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I too prefer more bass, and this can be found in more expensive f hole and f style mandolins. more importantly, imoh, is a good balance, ie bass, mid and treble clarity-you ear may be accustomed to guitar and mandolin my indeed sound shrill until you dial in your ear-this took me a little time to do.

you cannot imagine how fun mandolin is , and, even more so when you play with others.

Northwest Steve
Jun-01-2015, 11:06am
An Eastman 305 would be a great first instrument. They have very thin finish and generally should good, some very good. the 305 would also be a good choice for smaller hands. You should be able to find a blem or used one as well. The Kentucky 150 and their other entry level mandolins would be a good choice. Note that the necks will be a little fatter so you may want to try one. One more thing to point out is set-up. It is critical on a mandolin and will make playing much easier. since you have a luthier have him check it out and do a set-up.

Henry F
Jun-01-2015, 11:34am
Also...the great thing about the mandolin is that it is tuned in 5ths. This means that you can change keys and use the same fingering just by shifting up or down to the next string, or up and down the fretboard. I found this to be a great help when learning tunes. Eventually, it almost becomes as easy as singing or humming a tune...you seem to know where the next note is located. Try that on a guitar tuned in 4ths, except for the b string...oh yeah, I also noticed after the first few days on the mandolin that the open strings are basically the reverse of the guitar (G, D, A, E vs. E, A, D, G, B, E) so chords are simply upsidedown from guitar on those 4 strings! Hope I didn't confuse you....

Gary Leonard
Jun-01-2015, 11:41am
....

One thing I learned in my guitar journey is "start with a good instrument". I played for 2 years on a $200 guitar before buying my Martin. I wish I'd bought the Martin from the get go.



I think you will find the same to be true for the mandolin. I quickly upgraded my entry level mandolin to something I can enjoy playing more, and keep for life. While Eastman does make good quality mandolins, I would recommend stepping up a level. And buying used is a great way to get more value for your money.

pheffernan
Jun-01-2015, 11:56am
One thing I learned in my guitar journey is "start with a good instrument". I played for 2 years on a $200 guitar before buying my Martin. I wish I'd bought the Martin from the get go.

The Eastman is a fine starter mandolin but the equivalent of your $200 guitar. If you wish you'd bought the Martin from the get go, you may well feel the same about a higher end mandolin.

Randi Gormley
Jun-01-2015, 12:19pm
If you want to expand out of bluegrass (or newgrass), the mandolin is accepted in any other music out there, so don't worry that you'll be stereotyping yourself by picking one up. There are many of us who don't play bluegrass or any of its varieties, sort of like there are lots of guitar players who don't just play rock and roll. If you're starting out fresh with a teacher, I'll suggest you learn how to read standard notation if you don't already. It opens up a lot of new experiences and music.

Also, although mandolin is what you want, you might try to find a mandola to test -- it's a slightly lower toned-instrument, comparable to a viola (as opposed to violin, which is tuned like a mandolin). Just a thought.

Eric C.
Jun-01-2015, 12:34pm
You can pick up a Kentucky KM950 (A-style, F-holes) for right around $1,000. That is more than enough mandolin for many, many years. IT is the most bang for your buck when it comes to mandolins. It has a nice throaty growl on the low strings, a radius fretboard, and to many who have played them, you'd have to spend a couple grand more to upgrade from it.

Resolve
Jun-01-2015, 12:41pm
You can pick up a Kentucky KM950 (A-style, F-holes) for right around $1,000. That is more than enough mandolin for many, many years. IT is the most bang for your buck when it comes to mandolins. It has a nice throaty growl on the low strings, a radius fretboard, and to many who have played them, you'd have to spend a couple grand more to upgrade from it.

After reading the thoughts here about the relative price of mandolins vs guitars as a reference (VERY helpful!!) I've bumped up my budget to $1000 so I was just about to ask for suggestions for that price point.

Northwest Steve
Jun-01-2015, 1:35pm
Where are you located? Are there stores that you can get to try some? That would be ideal so you see what feels good and sounds good to you. If you are not going to be playing bluegrass you might consider an oval hole mandolin in stead of f holes? For $1000 the will be many good options.

The Kentucky MM 900/950 1000/1050 are made in a separate factory from their other mandolins and tend to be great mandolins. I do have a 1050 and it is really great, my teacher who owns several high end instruments said it is a keeper the first time he heard it. If you have smaller hands I would think you might lean toward the 900/1000. The difference is the neck is thicker in the 950/1050"s, they have a radiused fret board and the bigger frets. The 900/1000 have a flat fret board, standard frets and a smaller neck profile.

Howard 'Sonny' Morris builds mandolins in northeast Oregon. You can search here and get a fair amount of information. His mandolins are highly thought of and you could get a brand new mandolin built by a single luthier and made in the US for $1000.

Check the classifieds there are some great instrument for sale there.

Resolve
Jun-01-2015, 1:49pm
I haven't really looked at any stores yet. I have been tossing around this idea for awhile now but have only made the decision to pursue it in the past couple of days so I'm in "fact-finding" mode at the moment.

From what I have seen I like the look of the "A" style more than I like the look of the "F" style (similarly to how I like the non-cutaway shape of acoustic guitar). On the other hand, I like the fact that the "point" (is that the right term?) on the lower bout of the F shape probably helps it stay in position on one's lap. (I have a small scale Cargo guitar (carbon fiber) and that thing scoots all over when I try to hold it in my lap even if I use a strap--I've gone to using one of those Dynarette supports to play it).

From what I've been reading, it appears that a "better" instrument can be had for the same price by choosing A style over F style.

I don't have a strong feeling for one style over the other at this point as I can see pros and cons. :disbelief:

Tobin
Jun-01-2015, 2:04pm
From what I've been reading, it appears that a "better" instrument can be had for the same price by choosing A style over F style.

I don't have a strong feeling for one style over the other at this point as I can see pros and cons.

If you're not strongly in the F-style fan club, then yeah, your money is better spent on an A-style. Generally speaking, you'll get twice the mandolin in an A style for the same price as an F-style. Or, an F-style will cost twice as much for the same quality as its equal in an A-style.

Any lap-stability issues can be solved by wearing a strap, even when seated. This makes it easier to stand up and play when you need to as well, without having to adjust your playing style.

Eric F.
Jun-01-2015, 2:18pm
The Kentucky 900/950 would probably be just fine in the $1,000 range, but you can get a handmade instrument from Howard Morris for that, too. Search the site for reviews by owners. There's one in the classifieds (http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/87156)now for $995.

You'll probably get a dozen suggestions on what to buy. It can be overwhelming, especially because shops with dozens of nice mandolins to try are rare. You've made a good decision to go up in price; you can get a sweet mandolin for that kind of money.

shins
Jun-01-2015, 2:55pm
Easman 305 is a great mando for the price.

some people complain about the tuners but personally I'm convinced the tuners are fine, just that the thin finish on it makes it more sensitive to changes in the environment.

Mark Marino
Jun-01-2015, 3:08pm
Try before you buy. There's a bit of a range of sound difference, especially between oval hold and f-hole mandolins. Buy one who's sound appeals to you. If you like the sound of your particular instrument, playing can be addictive and you'll probably progress much more rapidly than on one that sounds dull or harsh to your ear.

I started on an oval hole A style mandolin that had a really bright sound, and have migrated to an F-hole after a few years of playing. I honestly think that if I'd started with a more 'bluegrass/newgrass' instrument right off teh bat, I might have lost interest.

Resolve
Jun-01-2015, 3:17pm
I started on an oval hole A style mandolin that had a really bright sound, and have migrated to an F-hole after a few years of playing. I honestly think that if I'd started with a more 'bluegrass/newgrass' instrument right off teh bat, I might have lost interest.

That is confusing to me. Are you saying that if you'd started with the F style, the one to which you've migrated (and therefore prefer?), you'd have lost interest?

bigskygirl
Jun-01-2015, 3:34pm
I thiink you should either go for the Eastman and see how you like playing the mandolin, or go ahead and spend $3-5k on a nice mandolin. If you spend $1,000 you're going to end up spending the $3-5k later anyway. Right now you have no idea what sound, style, wood, finish, neck profile or radius, bridge, pickguard, tuners, tailpiece.....whatever you want.

You'll see lots of debate here but the Eastmans are a great value mandolin. I bought an Eastman 315 for $400 on a whim a few years ago and ended up falling in love with the mandolin. After playing many different mandolins I decided on a custom Northfield, I still love that little Eastman tho' and will not part with it (I have offers to purchase it but it's a keeper).

Find a festival nearby and go check out the vendors, I was at a festival recently and the Eastman dealer was there with great deals.

Then, when you're ready you can go for a spendy custom mando.

Welcome to the Cafe and have fun learning, it's good to take lessons and there are lots of great resources on the web as well.

Resolve
Jun-01-2015, 3:43pm
I thiink you should either go for the Eastman and see how you like playing the mandolin, or go ahead and spend $3-5k on a nice mandolin. If you spend $1,000 you're going to end up spending the $3-5k later anyway. Right now you have no idea what sound, style, wood, finish, neck profile or radius, bridge, pickguard, tuners, tailpiece.....whatever you want.

You'll see lots of debate here but the Eastmans are a great value mandolin. I bought an Eastman 315 for $400 on a whim a few years ago and ended up falling in love with the mandolin. After playing many different mandolins I decided on a custom Northfield, I still love that little Eastman tho' and will not part with it (I have offers to purchase it but it's a keeper).

Find a festival nearby and go check out the vendors, I was at a festival recently and the Eastman dealer was there with great deals.

Then, when you're ready you can go for a spendy custom mando.

Welcome to the Cafe and have fun learning, it's good to take lessons and there are lots of great resources on the web as well.

Thanks for the welcome. :) Your thoughts run close to my original plan which was to get the Eastman, try it awhile and then upgrade once I knew more. You are right....given what others have said about what it costs to get a really nice mandolin, it could well be that my 1K purchase may end up being my "starter" instrument. Quite frankly, I guess I'd rather have spent $500 and then upgrade than spend $1000 and then upgrade.

I've been watching some YouTube reviews and that little Eastman does seem to get decent appreciation.

My head is spinning after all the research and contemplation today. :disbelief: Going with that Eastman will help me pull the trigger and "get going" rather than experience the paralysis by analysis that I'm experiencing at the moment! LOL

pheffernan
Jun-01-2015, 4:28pm
Quite frankly, I guess I'd rather have spent $500 and then upgrade than spend $1000 and then upgrade.

If I might introduce one other possibility, as a way of keeping costs down you might consider a flattop mandolin as your first purchase. They may not be ideal for a big bluegrass jam, but you probably won't be starting there anyway. And since flattops require less time to build, and therefore less labor to produce, the savings are passed on to you. Otherwise, you'll find the build quality is very high -- solid wood instruments made in the USA by independent luthiers and small workshops -- the kind that you'd probably be happy to keep as a second voice or travel mandolin when you do eventually upgrade. I'm going to link to an eBay auction for a Flatiron:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLATIRON-3MB-MANDOLIN-1994-/261906069463?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cfad177d7

However, you will notice that people o viewed this item also looked at another Flatiron, a Redline Traveler, and a Mid-Missouri, all of which I have owned and can recommend as a great option on which to get started.

avaldes
Jun-01-2015, 4:31pm
That is confusing to me. Are you saying that if you'd started with the F style, the one to which you've migrated (and therefore prefer?), you'd have lost interest?
F-Style refers to the shape with the scroll and the points, and the A-style is more almond-shaped. As noted in the thread, F-style is more expensive. Either the F-style or the A-style can have F-hole or Oval hole for the opening(s) that let the sound out of the resonant chamber formed by the body. F-hole projects more and is preferred for bluegrass. Oval hole is a rounder tone, preferred by classical and Celtic players. But you will find oval holes in bluegrass.
The best mandolin IMHO in the $500 range is the J Bovier A5 Tradition.
This is the same song played on a J Bovier F 5 (F style, F hole) and Weber Gallatin (A style, oval hole). To be fair, by the time I got the Weber I was a little more practiced up on the song.

https://youtu.be/V-YTCwvGzlw

https://youtu.be/IRblaZuqCxc

terrapin
Jun-01-2015, 5:30pm
I thiink you should either go for the Eastman and see how you like playing the mandolin, or go ahead and spend $3-5k on a nice mandolin. If you spend $1,000 you're going to end up spending the $3-5k later anyway. Right now you have no idea what sound, style, wood, finish, neck profile or radius, bridge, pickguard, tuners, tailpiece.....whatever you want.

You'll see lots of debate here but the Eastmans are a great value mandolin. I bought an Eastman 315 for $400 on a whim a few years ago and ended up falling in love with the mandolin. After playing many different mandolins I decided on a custom Northfield, I still love that little Eastman tho' and will not part with it (I have offers to purchase it but it's a keeper).

Find a festival nearby and go check out the vendors, I was at a festival recently and the Eastman dealer was there with great deals.

Then, when you're ready you can go for a spendy custom mando.

Welcome to the Cafe and have fun learning, it's good to take lessons and there are lots of great resources on the web as well.

This is great advice!

metrognome
Jun-01-2015, 11:45pm
At the risk of being a bit of a contrarian (which comes naturally :P) I don't see anything wrong with getting a "starter" mandolin. Eastman, Kentucky, The Loar or J Bouvier all make sub-$1000 instruments which are well-constructed and sound great. Playability has to do with the set-up, not the brand or the price. Tone is in the fingers. My $0.02. The main thing is to get one in your hands and get started on a fantastic adventure!

Resolve
Jun-01-2015, 11:52pm
I am still pondering "which one" but have another question. I've looked a number of online stores: Folk Musician, Elderly, The Mandolin Store. All claim to do a pro set up. My luthier friend lives 5 hours away so I won't see him any time soon. Has anyone had experience with the set up done by these stores? I'm tempted to have the instrument shipped directly to him for a set up but wonder if that would be necessary.

metrognome
Jun-02-2015, 12:11am
Lots of options. If you buy one from someone here on the classifieds as I did, it may come already well set-up. All I had to do with mine (a The Loar LM 500 VS) was file down the nut, which was projecting too high above the strings, to allow ease of fingering at the first fret (it got in the way of my index finger coming down). I was able to do this myself. All the vendors you have mentioned have fine reputations for quality set up as far as I know.

MysTiK PiKn
Jun-02-2015, 1:15am
I am still pondering "which one" but have another question. I've looked a number of online stores: Folk Musician, Elderly, The Mandolin Store. All claim to do a pro set up. My luthier friend lives 5 hours away so I won't see him any time soon. Has anyone had experience with the set up done by these stores? I'm tempted to have the instrument shipped directly to him for a set up but wonder if that would be necessary.

Setup is everything. With high string tension, you want really low action.

Robert Fear @ FolkMusician bases his business on quality setups.

I'm actually a fan of the Elderly store - but my TheLoar 700VS came from Elderly, and it was NEVER setup - until I did it myself.

I hear good things MandoStore - but no experience w them.

And DID I tell you setup is everything? Setup is everything.


If I were trying to buy a mando based on what's in this thread, I think I'd cut my fingers off and forget it. Oh, there are some good points - did I tell you my mando is named "Brat"? Guess who taught him everything he knows. :disbelief:

Seriously - good luck with it. Go play a bunch. Then research the specs. And play some more. Then maybe....... :popcorn:

O, yeh, you can spend the big bucks later - get one you like now, within budget. There's LOTS of room in your budget.

Eric C.
Jun-02-2015, 5:29am
I am still pondering "which one" but have another question. I've looked a number of online stores: Folk Musician, Elderly, The Mandolin Store. All claim to do a pro set up. My luthier friend lives 5 hours away so I won't see him any time soon. Has anyone had experience with the set up done by these stores? I'm tempted to have the instrument shipped directly to him for a set up but wonder if that would be necessary.

I've had mandolins from all 3 stores and their set ups were superb. All 3 have friendly, helpful staff and will make your buying experience pleasurable.

Eric C.
Jun-02-2015, 5:31am
Thanks for the welcome. :) Your thoughts run close to my original plan which was to get the Eastman, try it awhile and then upgrade once I knew more. You are right....given what others have said about what it costs to get a really nice mandolin, it could well be that my 1K purchase may end up being my "starter" instrument. Quite frankly, I guess I'd rather have spent $500 and then upgrade than spend $1000 and then upgrade.

I've been watching some YouTube reviews and that little Eastman does seem to get decent appreciation.

My head is spinning after all the research and contemplation today. :disbelief: Going with that Eastman will help me pull the trigger and "get going" rather than experience the paralysis by analysis that I'm experiencing at the moment! LOL

That's the catch. The Kentucky Master Models (900, 950, 1000, 1050, 1500) are not starter mandolins even though they range in 1,000-2,000 in cost.

UsuallyPickin
Jun-02-2015, 6:05am
Well .... buy the highest quality mandolin you can afford. An A model used will give the highest quality at the lowest price. With a hard case you can safely ship it to your buddy the luthier. Yes a proper setup is paramount to having an instrument with good playability. Still it will take awhile to get used to as double course strings require an entirely different "touch". The strings being shorter also require a heavier pick to move them well.
There are several Eastman mandolins used here in the Café classifieds worth investigating. If an A model mandolin will suit your taste here are the two I would encourage you to look at. I own a Gibson A5L of this generation and the original was ordered and made for a female mandolin player in the 1920's. The neck is quite dainty. The Kentucky is a copy of this model Gibson. Though not owning one I cannot vouch for the specific neck measurement and shape. Kentucky mandolins rate as highly and in some opinions more so than Eastman mandolins here on the Cafe . Good luck in your mandolin adventure. R/
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/86817
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/87022

Timbofood
Jun-02-2015, 6:21am
Resolve, where are you located? If you have the time to go to Elderly, take the trip and spend some time talking with them. Or any shop within reasonable travel, I think you understand your guitar and why you like it so, you have a grasp of how things of quality are constructed. That will work to your advantage, you clearly communicate well, asking here is a great initial "toe in the water" step. Why not see the recommended teacher and see the input there too.
You are entering a fascinating world which, travel it with open mind, you will have one heck of a good time!

Davey
Jun-02-2015, 7:01am
Buy the Eastman. The neck is fast and nicely shaped with a comfortable profile and they all sound very good indeed.

I went to buy myself an expensive Mandolin for a big birthday, took my Eastman along, and -surprise- Eastman sounded better. (it's a MD404 so similar to the one you're interested in) Saved myself $5,000.

I compared it against a dozen different instruments and it was as good as most of them.

Resolve
Jun-02-2015, 7:13am
You are all so helpful! Thanks so much for all this information and insight.

I'll probably go with a 300 Eastman...now have to decide whether to go A or F. "A" is the better value at $479 for the 305 but the more I'm looking at mandolins I have to say I'm kind of liking the "F" style which will cost me $220 more. Soooo even if I slightly prefer the F, is it worth the $220? That is the question.

Then there is the question of from whom to purchase. The recs on the online shops have been appreciated! Eventually I will have my luthier friend take a look at whatever I buy but I want to be able to get started on a decently set up instrument in the time before I'm able to hook up with him.

Dick Hutchings
Jun-02-2015, 8:16am
Follow this advice if you can. Remember wishing you had started with a Martin. You'll get so much more from a quality instrument and you'll be happy just to pluck a single note and enjoy it compared to lower quality instruments.


a few thoughts, not well considered either, so bear with me

I too am a guitar player come to mandolin. I however, am able to play solos and breaks. That being said, I happen to feel good rhythm playing to be perhaps the epitome of a good guitarist in the broadest sense of musical accompaniement.

yes the mandolin is delightfully portable. I love only having a small case to schlepp to gigs.

mandolin is also, in BG , largely a rhythm instrument as well, the snare drum on beats 2 and 4 if you will..AND, if you play mando, more or less, you will need to be able to play a break eventually.

the mando has greater string tension, so you will have a period of adjustment and may find chording and fingering take a bit more effort at first. mando has less sustain, so you may think its plinky sounding compared to guitar, for a while.

I found it very easy to learn, and after only a few months, almost intuitive as to how to pick out melodies. I suggest that first you learn to play some songs, by chording (two finger easy ones to start) and singing along. Here on this forum at the top left of the page, there are many nice tabs, and songs you will know. Chose 3-4 you like and try to learn them.

Mandolin, good or bad, will likely make you play more bluegrass than other genres. BG is not my first love, but I have been playing a lot of it since getting serious about mandolin. the music fits, and mandolin players are useable, and perhaps, favored to some extent.

first suggestion, pre purchase , is to buy mandolin for dummies-for about 20 bucks you will get a lot of info and oversight.

second, decide your budget. simply, and sadly, mandolins are 2-4 times the price of an equivalent guitar-ie your martin is 2K, an equivalent mandolin will be between 2.5 and 5 k, or more, deciding on the body shape you chose. a or f. soundwise, there is no difference, provided the neck length and shape of hole is the same. this price jump is very hard to accept at first. I hated it. then I accepted it.

I also will add, and many will differ, a better mandolin, ie 'spensive, to me is inspiring, and does sound and play better, generally. As it is a 'fussy' or precise and demanding thing, a good mandolin is a leg up. You have pride in your instrument and you know you can get the good sound, and there is no hurdle, no excuses, other than your willingness to work and practice and refine your technique. Sounds like 'stuff'?

I guarantee that within a year of work, your ear will be highly sensitized, and you will recognize the difference in sound as well as feel.

F holes are most popular for the 'cut' and acceptance in bluegrass, jazz and other genres. oval holes are more folkie, celtic, oldtime, and, of course, jimmy page and john paul jones used them in the zeppelin tunes. imho, a f hole mandolin will have better resale to a general market.

I cannot suggest strongly enough, a teacher will make your progress much faster. once you get legs, then self teaching will be easy.

after a while playing melodies, I found it very easy to 'find' or pick out melodies on mandolin, the step towards soloing. once you get there, you may well return to guitar and do the same.

to cut to the chase, the eastmans I have heard and played seem very nice value.

Depending upon your budget, I might start with an A shaped collings mandolin. why? they are really consistent in build and sound, they sound great, and are very very playable. this mandolin will carry you a long time, until such time as you may want more or higher end. There are many other fine makers. I suggested this one because of its uniform quality and ease of resale and recognized name. buy from a good seller.
I mention this only because of your wish I had started with a martin comment.


if you prefer bassy sound, then, you may well prefer an x braced mandolin over a traditional tone bar bracing. you may also prefer an oval hole , known for their tubby sound compared to an F.
if this seems cryptic, go to you tube and do 2 searches, one for oval hole Gibson clips and one for f style Gibson clips (I refer to the f hole versions) listen compare and decide. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I too prefer more bass, and this can be found in more expensive f hole and f style mandolins. more importantly, imoh, is a good balance, ie bass, mid and treble clarity-you ear may be accustomed to guitar and mandolin my indeed sound shrill until you dial in your ear-this took me a little time to do.

you cannot imagine how fun mandolin is , and, even more so when you play with others.

Resolve
Jun-02-2015, 8:51am
SteveDenver's advice is very sage indeed and I've benefited immensely from all the feedback you kind people have provided over the past day's exchanges!

The way I see this shaping up in terms of cost is that to get a REALLY good mandolin, we're talking a couple thousand dollars. While I would love a "really good" mandolin right now, my practical side says I need to get a "good" mandolin to start with and then decide on a "really good" instrument once I know how or even whether I want to invest that kind of money. It's a little easier with a guitar to get a really good instrument for much less money than a comparable mandolin. It would have been much easier to justify the cost of the Martin even in the early days of my playing than to justify the much higher cost of the same "level" mandolin. So it's sort of an oranges to apples thing.

In what I've been reading and seeing on guitar shop videos, there are nice playable models of Eastman and Kentucky mandolins that will get me started.

Relative to guitar...I still won't shell out for a Lowden or a Santa Cruz or some other more boutique guitars although there are some over which I have salivated. My Martin 000-16 is not a fancy gal nor is she "top of the line" but she sounds great, is extremely easy to play (thanks to the great set up I got) and the perfect size for me.

I doubt I will ever find I need a "top of the line" mandolin. I just want one that, like my Martin, sounds good and is easy (all things relative) to play. It may indeed turn out that I will want to upgrade. If so, I will. But I just don't want to spend even $1000 now only to end up with a mandolin that is still not quite good enough for "the long run".

Dick Hutchings
Jun-02-2015, 9:09am
But I just don't want to spend even $1000 now only to end up with a mandolin that is still not quite good enough for "the long run".
I think that makes a lot of sense. You stand to lose less when you upgrade if you get a lower end instrument. But, will it call you to play it? Maybe. Try before you buy. I wish you luck in your search.

Tobin
Jun-02-2015, 9:47am
I doubt I will ever find I need a "top of the line" mandolin. I just want one that, like my Martin, sounds good and is easy (all things relative) to play. It may indeed turn out that I will want to upgrade. If so, I will. But I just don't want to spend even $1000 now only to end up with a mandolin that is still not quite good enough for "the long run".
I can understand your thinking here. A lot of it will depend on where you end up going with your mandolin in the future. Right now, it's impossible to know. So there's no point in spending more than you need to, just for possible future contingencies that are not on your radar.

In the $1,000 range, you will find some playable mandolins. Of course, any mandolin can be made playable with a decent setup and some tweaking. For the first year or two of learning, "playable" may be all you need. And to be honest, if you're brand-new to the mandolin, you probably wouldn't notice the difference at this point. Once you get to a certain point where you're starting to play more leads with your mandolin, though, you may find that just being playable isn't enough. Especially if you can't be heard, or your mandolin just isn't giving you the sound you want.

This is where a lot of folks really start to look at the higher-end mandolins with respect to volume, tone, etc. Obviously, a lot will depend on personal preference (which you can only develop with experience), but the price can range from about $3K to $30K for a really good mandolin (including the F-styles, which you may find you just have to have later on).

So yes, by all means, if $1,000 is your budget for now, get a good playable mandolin. It will probably be more than you need for the moment. But the more you play it with others in a live setting, and the more exposure you get to the mandolin's capabilities, and the more you hear others playing the mandolin, or start trying out higher end mandolins, the more you'll really notice the difference between a $1K mandolin and a $5K mandolin and a $10K+ mandolin.

As a beginner, many of those finer nuances will not be apparent to you right now. I mean, a really fine mandolin will obviously look a lot more refined and detailed than a starter mandolin. And it will sound much louder, etc. But until you have developed some skill and experience, and developed your ear for mandolin tone, the difference won't be obvious.

All of this is to say that your $1K mandolin choice will be fine for now. But don't kid yourself that you won't want to upgrade later! If you do end up getting serious with playing the mandolin, you'll eventually come to the point where you recognize the difference. Whether you choose to pay for the upgrade will depend on the severity of your affliction. :)

Resolve
Jun-02-2015, 10:05am
"severity of your affliction"....LOL!!!:))

Seriously...thanks for the thoughts!

Northwest Steve
Jun-02-2015, 10:07am
Personally I would not spend the extra money for a 305 over a 315 unless you could find a nice used 315, and they do show up from time to time. You are playing only for the scroll, playability and sound will be the same.Also $700 is to close to $1000 to not make the next leap. A Kentucky 900 is a much better instrument than the Eastman 305. For a $1000 you can find an old Gibson, a Flatiron A, Kentucky 900/1000, Morris (you might be able to find a used one for $700) and once in a while a bargain will show up in the classifieds.

Sorry to confuse the issue but no one has chimed in on the J Bovier. They get great reviews and are price similar to the 305.

I am a newbie to the mandolin but I am going to disagree with one thought that has been brought up and that is you have to spend in excess of $3000 to get a good mandolin. I also think that spending a lot of money on an instrument does not guarantee a great mandolin. If your budget is $3000 you will see one for 4-5k and think maybe I should? Or if it is $5k you will be looking at $6-8 and think maybe I should stretch a little? Where do you stop? I heard a girl playing in here family band and her mandolin sounded very nice and appeared to be an Eastman 515. A few months ago there was a guy playing and he was very good and his mandolin sounded GREAT and I wondered what the heck he was playing. I just got a quick glimpse and it was an Eastman and I think it was a 315. There is a guy that lives about an hour from me and he is a great player and loves his Collings mandolin. He has a Kentucky 950 for his backup and is really impressed with how good it is. The first lesson I took with my current instructor at the end he asked to see my mandolin, looked at the label and played it for a while. When he handed it back to me he said it was a keeper. Last week at my lesson he commented again on how good it sounds. This is a guy that plays a Gilchrist and has several very nice high end vintage mandolins.

I have dealt with two of the site sponsors. I called and talked to Dennis at the mandolin store about a used mandolin and asked if it would have been a worth while upgrade from my 305 and he said no. He might have been able to sell me a mandolin but that spoke volumes to me. I bought a Kentucky KM150 for a beater from Elderly. The setup is perfect and I truly can not believe that someone can make an instrument that good for the price. So I would be confident in any of getting a properly set-up mandolin ready to go.

Is there anyone near you that can help you picking out a mandolin? Also you did not really say if you can get to music store to play and hear a some? If not try to find a bluegrass or old time festival, jam, etc. and see if you can get some hands on experience.

Just be confident that there are many good instruments and many should keep you happy for a long time.

pheffernan
Jun-02-2015, 10:27am
But I just don't want to spend even $1000 now only to end up with a mandolin that is still not quite good enough for "the long run".

You'll lose more on depreciation by purchasing a new $500 mandolin than a used $1000 one. And there are a lot of used mandolins in the $1000 range -- a Gibson A9, Flatiron, Rigel A Natural, Silverangel Econo -- that would make a fine counterpoint to your Martin.

Tobin
Jun-02-2015, 10:43am
I am a newbie to the mandolin but I am going to disagree with one thought that has been brought up and that is you have to spend in excess of $3000 to get a good mandolin. I also think that spending a lot of money on an instrument does not guarantee a great mandolin.
Yeah, I thought a little more about this since I posted my $3K-$30K remark. If we're including A-styles, there are certainly some GREAT mandolins out there under $3K. My Pava, for example, was $2.5K, and I could certainly see it being a lifetime mandolin if I didn't have such an affinity for F-styles. Northfield, Collings, and many others make very good mandolins in a similar price range. I'm talking new prices, of course. Used mandolins obviously have a different range.

As I said, personal preference will kick in after a certain price range (and with a certain experience level). Very subtle nuances in tone or voicing can persuade people to chase after higher-priced mandolins because they just have to have that certain "something" they can't find in other makes. The same can be said of subtle differences in neck profiles, fingerboard extension options, frets, inlays, wood choices, finishes, etc. These are the things that probably don't matter to a new player, but will be worth thousands of dollars to someone who is looking for just the right combination of things.

I agree that spending a lot of money doesn't necessarily guarantee a great mandolin. But as a general rule, the type of skill and labor required to make a truly great mandolin just isn't going to be available at lower price points. They may look decent, play decent, and sound decent, but they will lack the refinement that comes from a master of the craft (and the masters don't just give their products away). Each player will have his or her own level of what is acceptable or desirable, based on experience, style of music, and other needs. No one can truly say what's best for another player.

My point to Resolve was that all these other finer points of mandolin construction can wait until she's ready and knows exactly what she wants, since the options are so varied. For now, getting a decent playable mandolin should be the goal.

Resolve
Jun-02-2015, 11:00am
My point to Resolve was that all these other finer points of mandolin construction can wait until she's ready and knows exactly what she wants, since the options are so varied. For now, getting a decent playable mandolin should be the goal.

Yes, given my experience when I started with guitar (at the same knowledge/experience place I now again occupy as I consider mandolin) I'd say that is true. I guess the bottom line is that there never are any "shortcuts". While I truly wish I'd had my wonderful Martin right out of the chute, realistically I know I didn't have the background at that time to be able to discern what I wanted. Just a few years later I "knew" my guitar as soon as I heard her...something I doubt I would have experienced as a raw beginner.

Knowing my "nature", I will feel less "beholden" to a less expensive instrument when/if (yes I know you all scoff at the "if" LOL) I decide I simply MUST find a better instrument.

With mighty thanks to all of you, I am getting closer to pulling the trigger. Just watched some video (and got some info here) on how to use a strap with an A style. Pretty sure the winner is Eastman 305...kind of where I started when I wrote this thread...only know I feel more like I am making an "informed" decision/selection.

mandroid
Jun-02-2015, 1:08pm
Eastman 305 seems like a good choice, particularly if you go through a seller
that does a Careful Pre Delivery set up.

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/MD305C.htm


I like Eastman's Fiberglass cases during the Wet season ,
rubber gasket edges keep things dry.

jaycat
Jun-02-2015, 3:14pm
. . . But I just don't want to spend even $1000 now only to end up with a mandolin that is still not quite good enough for "the long run".

I haven't read this whole string, so I don't know if you'd be interested in a used instrument. If so, there is an informative article around here someplace (someone help me and point it out!) addressing great used mandolin values for under $1,000.

Of course you have to wait for one of them to become available, you can't just buy it off the shelf. But it's a good read and will give you even more to think about!

Mike Arakelian
Jun-02-2015, 5:09pm
I don't think you'll be disappointed with your choice of an Eastman. They make a great playing and sounding mandolin for a very reasonable price. My Eastman 315 was my second mandolin. I played it for a year and a half and upgraded to a custom build. I sold my 315 with a phone call, and for just $100 less than what I paid for it. Keep in mind that regardless of what you buy now, or what you pay, you will eventually upgrade. MAS...there is no cure! Good luck. :mandosmiley:

k0k0peli
Jun-03-2015, 12:36am
I'm sorry, but I just fail to see the NEED for a non-professional to spends $thousand$ on an exquisite instrument. I'll draw a parallel to photography. Certain situations like sports and wildlife shooting require top-notch high-speed gear. Outside of such areas, superb results can be had with much more modest equipment. The trick: the 'togger must know how to use what they have. Sure, LBA (the lens equivalent of MAS) can kick in. I own 50 lenses in the 50mm range (just as some folks own dozens of mandos, ukes, guitars, whatever) and each has its own distinct flavor and strengths. The total cost of those (and my other few hundred) lenses was less than one top-tier mando. I guess glass is cheaper than wood.

So much for need. Desire is something else. I try not to desire *too* much. I hope I don't find myself in a position where *desire* leads me to break our household budget. (We're retired, with a comfortable but limited income.) Of course, if my wife says, "You gotta get that one!" how can I refuse? And maybe if I sell off a bunch of my lenses, I could buy some nice wood... ;) Is anybody here in the market for a Schneider Betavaron 3,5...11/0.08 enlarger zoom? Anybody? [/me peers around hopefully]

shins
Jun-05-2015, 2:44pm
I've played both the eastman 305 A style and 315 F style the 315 is nice, but the neck had a super pronounced "v" to it which I did not like and the 305 A style sounded significantly better.

in my opinion its not worth it to buy a budget F style. Under $1000 every F style I've tried has left me unsatisfied tone wise.

P.S. another interesting budget mando not mentioned yet is the breedlove crossover. I like the finish on them, but I haven't had a chance to try one yet.

Ed Goist
Jun-05-2015, 3:00pm
...snip...I've been playing guitar for about 10 years. I'm just a strummer...snip...One thing I know is that I'd like to be able to pick out more melodies than I do on guitar. I don't play lead at ALL and I don't "jam" but I'd like to be able to do both as "goals" for learning mandolin. ...snip...

Hi & Welcome! I am also primarily a rhythm guitar player, who added mandolin to the repertoire a few years back.

You've gotten great advice on selecting an instrument, so I'd like to add just one positive insight that might be helpful regarding your desire to learn melody and lead lines on the mandolin.

I think you will find that leads, melodies, and even the entire concept of music theory will unfold more easily for you on the mandolin. This is because of the tuning in perfect fifths. Because of the mandolin's tuning the patterns you will learn for scales, etc. will be uniform across the entire fretboard. (You will not have that crazy B-string to deal with).

Best of luck!