Volume increase on pull-off

[Megaphone]

Pardon if I use layman terms here but I'm fairly new to the mandolin. So this just starting happening a couple of minutes ago from what I can tell. When I pull off, specifically from the D string, I notice an actual increase of the volume of the string for about half a second. This hasn't happened up until now and is actually quite distracting when trying to continue with a song. Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? I am at a loss.

[Timbofood]

When you make the pull off is it to an open string? If so, one might make the argument that the chamber is tuned or at least sympathetic to a "D".
Other than that, I got nuthin'
Someone will offer another opinion any minute, such is life on the cafe!:grin:

[Megaphone]

It is indeed to an open D string. I actually tried untuning the two D strings and retuning in case that may be the culprit but no joy. Again new to this so not sure what you mean by the chamber being tuned or sympathetic. Any advice on how to go about remedying?

[des]

Now if you could do that with a hammer on it would really be something !

You can actually strike/sound/pull/ pluck the string with the left hand fingers when doing a pull off - I'm sure that classical violinists have an Italian word for it. It's not difficult on the mandolin but because of the short sustain probably not worth the effort.

I suspect that what you are describing is a sign that you're doing something right - namely holding down the lowest fret you played last.

[Timbofood]

How new are the strings?

[Timbofood]

Instrument bodies basically are "bells" (to make it as simple as I can, and I am not upset if wiser folk than me chime in with a more accurate opinion) which resonate a note, either by design or coincidence, which may have some effect on a sympathetic note played.
Does that make it the least bit clearer?
I have heard it said that top (as well as back) plates may be "tuned" to different notes as to try to reduce the phenomenon. Or something like that.
As I say, far more learned luthiers will ring in on this. But that is pretty much all I can offer on the subject.

[zedmando]

When you make the pull off is it to an open string? If so, one might make the argument that the chamber is tuned or at least sympathetic to a "D".
Other than that, I got nuthin'
Someone will offer another opinion any minute, such is life on the cafe!:grin:

This makes sense to me.
I've had similar things happen.

As well fret height can affect a pull off (& a hammer-on)--so you may need to adapt to it.

[Timbofood]

Respectfully Zed, I don't "see" this as a fret issue, as it happens on open string. Again, I could be wrong, it happens frequently.

[mandocrucian]

There's "pull-off" and there's "lift-off" which are actually different from each other. If you put that sideways motion on the string with the pull, you're going to get the slurred note as loud, or perhaps even louder than the first one. With a lift-off there is no additional energy added to the string.

If you master the energized pull-off or push-off , there's no reason that you can't keep a trill or slurred passage going for a measure or more. (Apply it to "Thunderstruck")

Niles H

[Megaphone]

Sorry, I don't think I was speaking accurately here. Using mandocrucian's definition I am "lifting-off". I am not attempting any additional sound, simply lifting my finger to go to another string, in this case the A string with the same finger. This literally just started happening today so I don't think I have made any drastic chanes to my playing! It is the first time I have heard something like this where I have simply lifted off of a string only to have it actually get louder for a very short period. Again, it is really distracting and affects the music, at least to me.

[JeffD]

When I do it and it gets louder its because the string has caught in a peeling callous and gets re-plucked on lift off.

[Megaphone]

It's definitely not being replucked on lift off. I am thinking it either has something to do with the tuning or perhaps something has changed inside the body. The strings are the ones that came with the mandolin when I received it about 2 months ago so it could be that they had been sitting on there for awhile. I have another set of strings but I am not sure that I want to an attempt a re-string for the first time while I am on a ship. I'll screw around a bit more and see if I can figure anything out.

[Pasha Alden]

Thought you would use Thunder Struck as an example Niles!

[zedmando]

Respectfully Zed, I don't "see" this as a fret issue, as it happens on open string. Again, I could be wrong, it happens frequently.

I realize it's an open string you're pulling off to, but it's a fretted note you're pulling off from.
So the fret height or the fret shape can affect how the pull off works.

I say this because I have more than one guitar with different size & height frets--and pull offs work a bit differently on them.
One has high frets and I have to watch pulling off to open strings, but another has very low frets and a pull off to an pen string is easier.

That doesn't mean anything's wrong with the fret, it just means the height, size & shape can affect how the string reacts to your finger pulling off of it.

Just something to be aware of & check out.

[jshane]

I can think of only 2 things-

- first (and i think most likely) is that somehow your finger is re-energizing the string-- if your callus is still developing, a slight change in its shape could do this-- does it happen when you release from any fret with any finger always?? If so then maybe it is number 2 below.

-second (and i think less likely)-- is it possible that you are tuning slightly higher or lower in pitch than before? If you are using a tuner, is it possible that it has become set to a different base-frequency (ie, not a=440)? If so, it is POSSIBLE that what Timbofood was referring to is occurring. Any object has a resonant frequency, and musical instruments are no exception. Luthiers manipulate the sympathetic frequencies of the individual components to achieve particular tonal qualities. ONE THING they often do is to "set" the overall sympathetic frequency to be something OTHER than that of a typical note because if they do NOT do this, and that frequency is sounded, the instrument will "howl" (called a wolf note) and MAYBE, if you are tuning "off-pitch", you have discovered the "wolf tone" frequency of your instrument.

[MysTiK PiKn]

Well, my opinion, best guess, kick at the cat is =
You are using a soft pick,
or
You are not picking hard enough, or loudly enough.

I don't know the Italina; but in Latin, it's called a "RIP OFF" :whistling:

What I am saying is that it's not totally possible to control the volume of a rip off - ok "pull off" - so if it rings full blast, which it tends to often, then it's louder than soft picking - assuming you use a pick at all. ???

As for bells and missing cylinders, I think you should get new ones of both - good luck, last I heard the use of those was banned, esp. in flatpicking competitions. I think of the body as a "drum". Not all have those either. Guitar pickers use rattlesnake rattles.

Try doing pull offs and hammer ons without picking at all - see what that sounds like.

Looking forward to updated report - and most of this is joking - except my guess - softly picking. ;)

Get a hard pick and see if you can make it roar - or if the strings break. :))

[lenf12]

I'm with Niles on this one. To perform a "lift off", your finger must move absolutely perpendicular (90 degrees) to the plane of the strings/fingerboard to avoid re-energizing the string. 91 degrees or 89 degrees is not a "lift off", it's a "push off" or "pull off" depending on the angle your finger is moving toward the next note.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

p.s. - after 2 months, you might want to think about a string change.

[Megaphone]

Thanks for the advice all. I tried taking out of tune and re-tuning again and the problem has largely went away although it is still there a bit. It only appears to happen on the D string. As I have said I don't think that I changed anything stylistically from one day to the day it started. I have been working on one of Chris Thile's Bach Partitas and it was fine one day and the next I got the weird increase in volume the next. I am using a Dunlop 1.5mm pick so I don't think that's the issue but I have a 2 mm that I can try out and see if that changes anything. I'll keep you all updated.