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View Full Version : Mando strap around scroll - The Loar



ChuckB14
Apr-10-2015, 7:50pm
I've got a "The Loar" LM-600-VS and just got a Henry Heller strap with the intention of putting it through the scroll. Doesn't fit. The strap doesn't look that thick and the space around the scroll doesn't look that thin, but looks are deceiving, I guess. I got the Heller strap because it's a simple flat strap which I prefer over the cloth or woven leather type. Any one else have a similar problem and maybe a solution? (or a recommendation for a thinner strap?)

Billbass1
Apr-10-2015, 8:57pm
I have a Neo Tech strap around the scroll of my Eastman .
Very secure . Very thin. Very light . And very comftorable .

David Lewis
Apr-10-2015, 9:13pm
I use one of these: http://jazzmando.com/new/archives/002144.shtml

It's thin, comfortable and pretty cheap.

Ron McMillan
Apr-10-2015, 10:37pm
The finish inside scrolls can be notoriously rough; it's quite possible that only a bubble of dried varnish is stopping your strap sliding through, and that by simply removing 1 or 2 mm of obstruction in an inner part of the scroll that is all-but invisible will solve your problem.

Ivan Kelsall
Apr-11-2015, 1:24am
There are a few different Heller strap styles - which one is yours ?. http://www.henryhellermusic.com/mandolin-straps.html
'Whichever' - as a short term solution,you could try fitting a bootlace loop to the loop end & pass that through the scroll. Or,preferably return the strap for a re-fund & buy a ''Lakota leather'' strap for it,
Ivan

noah finn
Apr-11-2015, 2:01am
I have an lm 700 and use a lakota leather strap. Fits fine.

AlanN
Apr-11-2015, 7:30am
The Heller strap line looks quality, how soft is the one you have? I would consider a trade for one of the many straps I have, if you're interested.

ChuckB14
Apr-11-2015, 11:03am
I have the Heller Suede Mando Strap HMANS-CHC. The strap has a suede top with a finished leather piece sewn to the bottom. I tried using the bootlace, but didn't like the feel - the mando felt loose to me, so I removed a small section of the finished bottom leather leaving only the suede to wrap around the scroll and it fit fine. The suede around the scroll will likely not hold up well over time - it's pretty thin - so I'm considering other options - maybe the Lakota. Thanks to all for your suggestions!

nordian
Apr-11-2015, 12:25pm
I have an LM700 and am using one of the Lakota flat unbraided straps. The scroll is too tight to simply slide the loop around, but I found that if I undo the loop in the strap, thread the narrow end through the scroll, and then put the narrow end back through the hole in the strap, it works fine. There is a little resistance threading the loop through the scroll, but once you have it through just work it back and forth a little bit and it will become easier.

mandroid
Apr-11-2015, 12:29pm
Just use a Loop of Boot lace to fit in the tight spot through the scroll .

Or maybe visit a Shoe repair shop.
they can sew on a thinner piece of leather as a Loop that can fit and be aesthetically Pleasing To You..

Or perhaps you can share the issues with the Maker send yours back and have him produce one that will fit to your satisfaction .

Ivan Kelsall
Apr-12-2015, 2:41am
The Heller straps look really nice,but one thing that i noticed in common with most strap makers,the thickness of the leather isn't stated,& the length of the strap isn't given either. I bought a strap 'on line' for my very first mandolin. When i got it,it was only long enought to fit over my right shoulder,when i wanted one that went around my back. I cobbled another piece of leather to it,but eventually bought one of the correct length. To me that's a bit like string makers offering strings with no gauges stated,when it's pretty obvious from the OP's point & my own point,that these 2 factors are important,:(
Ivan~:>

MysTiK PiKn
Apr-12-2015, 4:45am
I have an lm 700 and use a lakota leather strap. Fits fine.

Me too. I have leather strap w a leather loop on end - it's a little tight but it pulls through easily. Once it's in there it's just fine, adequate movement, etc.
Agree w above comment about finish can be rough in scroll area - it's not visible. I am thinking pull it through, unless it's grossly tight. Crowbar? :))

AlanN
Apr-12-2015, 5:14am
So true, Ivan. I am extremely particular about strap length. At a minimum, strap makers should state end-to-end length, better yet would be a precise measurement of where the first button hole is, the number of holes and the space between them. Some wear their mandolins high, some low. I wear mine in the middle. It needs to be perfect, or I simply can't make them gorgeous notes :mandosmiley:

Ivan Kelsall
Apr-13-2015, 3:31am
Absolutely Alan !. Also it might be handy to know the 'length' of the scroll loop when compressed,so that a prospective buyer could check if it was big enough for their mandolin,as not all scrolls are exactly the same size. What's an 'easy fit' on my Weber,is a tight fit on my Lebeda. ''One size fits all'' - nope !,
Ivan;)

MysTiK PiKn
Apr-13-2015, 4:12am
The fit really matters for me also. My leather loop is just temporary. I have looked at online ads for straps, and they all lack useful accurate info re adjustability, etc.
(more)
The other problem w my Loar700 is that the scroll is never going to work, because the mando is neck heavy, and droops down towards the floor - requiring my arm/hand to support that weight - which makes it like I have no strap, causing left arm tension - and that's a serious problem - repetitive strain, lactic acid accumulation, etc. Painful.

Experimenting with attaching to neck heel.
Today I did a test by using leather loop - around the entire neck+strings at 10th fret - (not for playing, for experimenting) - and then hold it against the down side of the neck heel, where a strap would attach. With the strap around my neck, and hooked at tailpiece end button, the mando balances perfectly. Looking down at it, the loop of leather lace, brushes close to the top of the scroll. I let go, and moved around - it stays in place - and is level.

I haven't yet installed a button on the neck heel. Still thinking and testing - but I think this will be my solution. The scroll attachment point is just wrong on the 700. due to drooping downwards. (likely others also).

Be sure to remove the leather loop before playing - doh! just an experiment. There's a chance that the strap coming close to the scroll might interfere - not sure of that - but the balance is perfect.

I hope this makes sense - lots of people have complained about the neck sagging towards floor.

Beyond this - it's the same problem - getting an adjustable strap - so I can set length or change it repeatedly until I have exact fit. I have a good leather one on my guitar. And I think the best solution is to go to a leather worker, or maybe a shoe repair to get what I really need.

AlanN
Apr-13-2015, 5:19am
And it would be good to know the thickness of the loop end, to be sure it will fit in between the scroll. When I sold roo straps, a Marc Bluett owner could only use those, as that scroll was tight.

Ivan Kelsall
Apr-14-2015, 3:01am
From MysTik above - ".......because the mando is neck heavy, and droops down towards the floor - requiring my arm/hand to support that weight ". That's the same for all of us. However, in order to play the mandolin,you have to support the weight of the neck in your left (or right) hand to begin with. Also,when not actually playing my mandolin,i simply rest my right hand on the side to prevent it going 'neck down' = no strain on my left hand.The only way of preventing your mandolin from going 'neck down',is to attach one end of the strap to the headstock & the other end of course to the strap button at the tailpiece end. Dean Webb,formerly with The Dillards always had his strap like this,but just having it over one shoulder,it looks so uncomfortable & i fail to see any reason for using a strap in that manner. I can imagine that if he let go of it with his left hand,it would nose dive anyway (IMHO),or simply crash to the floor,
Ivan
132905

MysTiK PiKn
Apr-14-2015, 1:53pm
Thanks Ivan. The nosedive is what I am talking about - and it does cause me actual pain. I don't notice the pain until I stop playing, which is weird. Bit it is much like an RSI - repetitive strain injury.
I tried to describe my experiment above - and I got a balanced result - hands free. It's hard to describe; but the end result is attach to tp-button, around my back, over left shoulder, down to the treble side (lower side) of the NECK HEEL - a small button must be drilled, installed carefully. The whole thing is common guitar style.
My descrip above is 6" loop over the actual 10fret+strings because THAT MIMICS the neck heel installation - i.e. the installed button is roughly beneath the 10-12th fret area. Hands free = no nosedive. Anyone could test this with any shoelace, string, etc.
EDIT = the supporting 'loop' is FARTHER TO THE LEFT than the scroll itself - by a distance of 1-2" - that's why it balances, in any preferred position (angle).

The repetitive strain of holding the mando in place, also interferes with chord changes such as C or D changing to an A-chord. That particular change requires the actual change movement AND also supporting the mando differently to attack the A configuration - and then return to C or D same kinda thing - the arm is involved doing 2 separate things.

Hard to describe this - hope it makes some sense. Pix might help also.

apology for topic hi-jack.

Ivan Kelsall
Apr-15-2015, 2:41am
From Mystik - "....around my back,....". That'll get the job done = more strap friction against your clothing to begin with.
It looks as if you've found a satisfactory solution - well done !,
Ivan

Barry Wilson
Apr-16-2015, 9:29am
The finish inside scrolls can be notoriously rough; it's quite possible that only a bubble of dried varnish is stopping your strap sliding through, and that by simply removing 1 or 2 mm of obstruction in an inner part of the scroll that is all-but invisible will solve your problem.

I had to do this with mine. It was like porcupine quills in there

Philphool
Apr-18-2015, 12:54pm
The finish inside scrolls can be notoriously rough; it's quite possible that only a bubble of dried varnish is stopping your strap sliding through, and that by simply removing 1 or 2 mm of obstruction in an inner part of the scroll that is all-but invisible will solve your problem.

I had a mando once (won't mention brand) that had some obstruction in the scroll space. Turned out to be a dried up beetle wedged in there!:confused::disbelief:

AlanN
Apr-18-2015, 1:51pm
Hope you picked Reischman's Big Bug! :mandosmiley:

johes
Apr-24-2015, 7:45am
Had the same problem with a lm500. I shaved the strap on the back with a cheap razor until it was thin enough to go through.