Weight Relief for TONE GUARD

[diymando]

Has anyone else been thinking of a way to get rid of some of the weight from their tone guard? I have been thinking about this a lot recently and I noticed something really interesting while watching a newer Punch Brothers video (see below link and pics). CT has what appears to be part of a tone guard, or something else. As far as I can tell, he, or someone else removed the middle supports from the guard and just left enough to have one bar to hold the back from being deadened by ones front.

The tone guard is very sturdy, and is a great design, but I do sometimes wonder if it is necessary to have so many support struts in the design I have.

Anyone experimented with removing some of their struts on a tone guard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgG3KNCMUCk

0:25 - Where you can see the weight relieved guard.

[terzinator]

I know this isn't very helpful, but I've never really found the thing that heavy.

I'm sure you could saw/cut out some of the ribs/bars, but that might make more of your shirt/sweater/belly hit the back of the mandolin, and discount whatever benefits the Tone Gard provides.

I can't really see the back of CT's mandolin in that video. I can see that he has a Tone Gard, but I can't see that he has modified it. Can you actually see ribs/bars removed?

[Timothy S]

I've never had issue with the weight. Just something I got used to quite easily.

With regards to the CT video, I got to see #75316 up close after a show at the Largo in Los Angeles. It looked like his Tone-Gard was not the sunburst pattern. I think it's called the "DecoGard."

[Paul Busman]

Play a resonator banjo, or a Les Paul electric guitar for a while. Suddenl the Tone Gard won't seem so heavy.

[mandroid]

Maybe you can ship him a sheet of Titanium to put in the Current CNC cutter that he uses

I to say dont Obsess over it , get a wider strap ..

You could be playing a Fender P bass instead , stop complaining.

[terzinator]

Got me to wondering...

According to this thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?106685-Tone-Gard-weight), the thing only weighs five ounces.

Some say it actually helps in balancing the instrument, making it "feel" lighter.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Call Tone-Gard. The guy that runs it will do custom orders and I'm sure He could come up with a much lower weight version with less metal if that is something you are into. I'm guessing you want less weight connected to the instrument (IE the less weight, more resonance angle) as opposed to being worried about holding the extra ounces as the other posters have alluded to.

[Doug Edwards]

Weight issue? I can't see where the ToneGard is an issue, but as my past district manager in another life would say "a customer's perception is reality". I had a customer ask me to cut and inch off his armrest to lower the weight. At best it was 1/2 ounce, but it was important to him. So, have Tony make you a custom lightweight design TG, whatever floats your boat.

[Neal2ilo]

Diymando
Look at this from Amazon: Konig & Meyer 14580 Guitar Playing Aid - Black
Neal

[Tobin]

Some say it actually helps in balancing the instrument, making it "feel" lighter.

I do like how the ToneGard balances my mandolin, making it not so peghead-heavy. I wouldn't go so far as to say the whole thing feels lighter, though. Having only reinstalled my ToneGard in the last few weeks, I still am getting used to the extra weight. Not that it's heavy at all, but it does take some getting used to.

Personally, I don't see any need to try to lighten it up. Especially if it involves removing any bars from the back. If anything, I'd prefer to go to thinner bars but put more of them on there so that the gaps are smaller. Or even a lightweight mesh/screen that won't catch on shirt buttons, as long as it's rigid enough to do the job.

[TonyP]

While I can appreciate the OP's hack/improvement mentality as that's what led me to make the Tone-Gard(not the Tone Guard which is a metal pick guard for Strat's) there is a world of difference between the idea and the execution.

CT is indeed using a DecoGard in the example cited. Between the the lightest Gard the Vintage and the heaviest, the Sunrise(with the Deco exactly in the middle) there is exactly 1/4oz. difference. Know what weighs 1/4 oz? One 12"x12" square of bubble wrap. That's hard for me to even tell I'm picking up something. It's hard to believe the present day pack of gum weighs the same 5 oz., as a Sunrise Tone-Gard. Your key ring probably weighs more than 5 oz.

I've always been responsive to any problems and improvements put to me by users. But anything you do will have supporters and detractors. And I mean anything. This is where idea and execution come in.

I had several people tell me they wished the design had one more ray to help with coverage. So it did it as much to fulfill a need as to also help visually delineate between the Vintage and the Sunrise. I went to powdercoat for finish durability. And went to leather pads instead of felt and Tygon instead of black rubber to stop the black marks on clothes. Each one of those changes had detractors and because that's all you usually hear about not the good stuff, so it's hard to gauge.

So I have to look at things carefully as this is not exactly the usual model of how to make a profit. This is not something that wears out. I've had one price increase in 15yrs. And I do as much as possible myself in keeping with a one man operation to keep costs down. And you start talking exotic metals or plastic and the price skyrockets. Meanwhile there are always folks who think it's way overpriced and think if it was outsourced it would be more reasonable.

But all this talk about weight only in terms of the Tone-Gard made me wonder how much of this is real. If weight was truly a factor, why not play an A style instead of an F? How come those points,scrolls and fancy peghead are never considered for their weight? As far as I can tell by my F and A there's around 4-5oz difference there. And why not keep the original tailpiece instead of cast? There's several oz's difference there. Makes me go hmmmm?

[George R. Lane]

Tony,
You make a great product. I have used them on all of my mandolins. The weight does not concern me in the least.

[sblock]

TonyP raises a number of excellent points. My own feeling is that folks who are concerned about the added weight of a ToneGard should try hefting a 5-string banjo sometime! :grin:

[Barry Canada]

I think the design is great!

[mandroid]

If You develop a style of Playing where you hold the back of the Mandolin held

away from touching your Body, say sitting in a Chair,
with it sitting on top of a thigh then the weight issue is Moot.

:whistling:

[sblock]

If You develop a style of Playing where you hold the back of the Mandolin held

away from touching your Body, say sitting in a Chair,
with it sitting on top of a thigh then the weight issue is Moot.

:whistling:

Oh yeah? Well, try doing that while standing up and playing into a microphone. It's not so easy, is it? There's a reason why so many famous performers use these things.

[mandroid]

Big Mon Didn't Need One, and He is revered.

I still sit in a chair Anyhow.

[jhammond]

I like my Tone-gard not matter whether I'm standing up or sitting down or laying down or upside down... Anyway I think they are great. I could play without it but I dont. I have actually just bought another one used from the classifieds for my backup(s) because one just isn't enough. They are nice to have and make enough of a difference to make it worth having.
Thank you Tony. Keep it up. You have a great innovative product.

I wish I like Big Mon but I'm definitely not and there will never be another.

[sblock]

Big Mon Didn't Need One, and He is revered.
I still sit in a chair Anyhow.

That's just about the silliest argument against the ToneGard I've heard. I imagine that if you patterned all your behavior on Bill Monroe's example, you might also wind up with an angry lover who takes a firepoker to your instruments! ;) Anyway, Bill Monroe is rightly "revered" for many things musical, but not so much for the exceptional tone he got from his mandolin ("Whip it like a mule!"). Also, the live PA and recording systems back in his day did not offer great fidelity, so good tone was probably not a top priority, in any case. Finally, the ToneGard did not exist for most of Monroe's long career! (BTW: neither did coated strings, electronic tuners, James tailpieces, Waverly tuners, or carbon fiber cases, but we have these today, and many of us like them, too.) Folks who do use ToneGards today include modern mandolin heroes like Ricky Scaggs, David Grisman, John Reischman, and Chris Thile. These people play standing up as well as sitting down, and they don't actually "Need" one. But they do like having one, and they don't get paid to endorse these things, either. But the reason to get one should have less to do with whether your mandolin hero happens to use one than whether it works for you! Hey, it works for me.

[DataNick]

Never connected you, TonyP, as the Tone-Gard guy...great product! I was sold when Steve Green at Buffalo Bros. first showed it to me as a newbie mando player way back when. My mandos don't leave the case without em...and btw: you should get every dime you can from your wonderful innovation! Makes my performing life easier!

[mandroid]

I didn't start this thread .. I have 2 TG.. I don't whine about their weight.:whistling:

[almeriastrings]

A big added "plus" (in addition to the tonal benefits, which I can certainly hear) is that they are excellent protectors for the back of the mandolin, and help prevent scratches or marks from shirt buttons, etc. I like them a lot!

[JeffD]

I have a tone guard on two of my instruments because I certainly do not hold it perfectly sitting down, after playing for a while. I don't hold it tight to my chest, but the tone-gard allows a bit of flexibility.

If I could maintain a perfect placement, I might not be as interested in a tone-gard.

Regarding playing standing up - the tone-gard certainly helps. I am not sure how one would approach playing standing and keeping the back of the mandolin free of one's body. But the truth is that it applies very little in my case because I avoid playing standing as much as I can. I don't see that one ever "has to" play standing up, except in a performance situation where the rest of the band is standing and where you need the gig to make groceries.

[Bertram Henze]

Are there extra-heavy toneguards available to counter that ever-annoying heavy F-style headstock problem? ;)