A or F

Do you prefer to play A styles or F styles?

Im in the state now where i love to play both. Both are very different to me. An A has a bolder sound to me but the F's have that tonal quality.

Well enough of my mess. Which do you prefer or enjoy better? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Unseen122]

A sounds better for Irish Traditional which is what I play mainly.

[Tim]

Interesting - the recurring "expensive strap hanger" thread always asserts there is no difference in sound between A and F.

[Rick Schmidlin]

As Bob said: (see my quote below)

[fatt-dad]

Considering that it's a fact that A's sound better than F's and it's all about the sound, I prefer A's (but I still want a distressed master model).

I may need professional help. . . .

f=d

[Bob DeVellis]

I think the difference between oval hole vs f-hole needs to be cleared up here. Most vintage A's have oval holes and sound quite different from the typical f-5 with f-holes. But same-shaped holes on different-shaped bodies make little difference, if any. The one way in which it might make a difference is that because F-s cost considerably more, they may, in some cases, get a bit more attention than their A-shaped brethren.

[fatt-dad]

O.K. bobd is correct. I'm pretty sure that every builder that I've spoken to has admitted that there is no real reason that an A5 should not project the same tone as a comparable F5 (i.e., wood for wood, finish for finish, neck joint for neck joint, etc.). So, there is only one reason to choose one over the other and that's taste or the appreciation for the craft/artwork.

For bobd's point, there is no reason to even suggest an oval hole should be compared to a f-hole mandolin. I would agree with that.

f-d

[Stephen Perry]

I find in going through the ribs on both A and F that F models are more difficult to work with. The strong curve right below the curl is generally too hard to work as much as I'd like. The extra blocks also introduce difficulties in balancing the ribs out. Much more clear what is going on with an A mandolin. Generally I find that the A models seem more open to begin with. I'm not as familiar with what they do after breakin because I don't get Fand A mandolins similarly broken in and that I've worked with before coming in at the same time.

[Rroyd]

Well, many of the players I know prefer to play in A, because they can use most all of their open strings, but then when they stop and analyze it, they discover they can use all the open strings when they play in F. #Let's see, did I misread the question? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Eric F.]

I recently played an Eastman 605 and a 615 back to back. There was no difference between them that I could discern, other than the design and the price tags. The sound was virtually identical. I've never had the luxury of spending that much more on looks, so I've always been firmly in the A camp, and will be until a vintage F-4 or F-2 falls into my lap. Or Mike, did you mean oval vs. f hole? That jus depends on my mood and the situation.

[merv]

I play whatever sounds the best and fits my budget . So call me an A style fan . Someday maybe I'll get my dream axe an F 4 style , must be the Airman in me loved the old phantom.

[acousticphd]

All A, AO, Af, All the time.

[Michael H Geimer]

Note: I think the original post is about Oval holes vs. F-holes.
So, this isn't going to ad any clarity to this murky topic but here's a pet observation of mine about A's and F's.

I've read many a many discussion on how differences in weight as small as a FEW GRAMS can affect tone, sustain and volume of a mandolin. Lighter is ALWAYS better when the topic involes a tailpiece, or a bridge, or tuners ...

... but somehow THE SCROLL - at what, half a pound? - doesn't degrade the tone at all?

I don't see how it is that mass should be detrimental to tone in the form of tuners, but then unnoticable as a scroll, even at tenfold the mass. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Some things are still unresolved about this issue, I think.

- Says Benignus, his mandolin hanging from its 'proper hook'. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[straight-a]

I an A style person. I love the simplicity of the look. I would buy an F if I found one that was just perfect, like a certain Rattlesnake I know of, but I'm a tried and true A style as far as preference.

[GVD]

A's all the way.

GVD

[Jack Roberts]

Do you prefer to play A styles or F styles?
Yes, I do.

[CountyFarm]

C# http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Jack Roberts]

C#? Like this:

C# A-5 (http://pws.prserv.net/symphotic/interest.htm)

[Jim M.]

No, C# is like this:

http://www.carmelmusic.com/stocklist/scanned%20photos/Nugget_2pt_FB.jpg

[jmcgann]

VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mandobar]

the expensive strap hanger theory is just that- a theory. i have 3 brentrups; a 21L which is an A with a red spruce top, an L21 (A style also) which has a larger body with a red spruce top and a 23v (F5 style) with a red spruce top. the 23v will drown out the other two no contest. there is a huge difference from one to the other.

which do i prefer? depends on the circumstance, but when you get that F style mando in your hands it just has that bark to it and when you hit that first note, it just says "WOOF".

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Lately I had a bout of A-MAS. There's an Anderson A style at Elderly that just melts my butter, and I've been thinking that my next mando will be an A with a head stock that requires F tuners. I don't mean that I want an F style headstock, but I like the visual balance of a larger head stock and an A style body.

Then, of course, there's Dale Ludewig's Emory Lester model, which takes A style ot the stealth level. I've been thinking about one of those in really dark blue. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

Best,
Daniel

[acousticphd]

All A, AO, Af, All the time.

My C# I think of as an "A", but with points. So I should have added one more above: Ap.

[Mandobar]

larry smart had an A mandolin he delivered at the nh mandolin festival to a customer that was a real kicker.

it all depends on the builder.

[Tom C]

From the question I would take it to mean and F style (with F holes) or an A style with F holes. -Otherwise we are talking 2 totally different mandos.

[Ken Sager]

Ooooooooo, Jim M found the Nugget C# at Carmel Music...

Isn't that spectacular? I'd love to spend a few hours a day with that gorgeous instrument.

[mandopete]

I prefer a B-Flat!

[CountyFarm]

C#? Like this:

C# A-5 (http://pws.prserv.net/symphotic/interest.htm)
Or like this..... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/badinfo/photos/oldwave266.gif


Old Wave #266

[Jim M.]

the Nugget C# at Carmel Music... Isn't that spectacular? I'd love to spend a few hours a day with that gorgeous instrument.


Yes, that Nugget sure is drool-worthy, and I should have credited Carmel Music with the picture -- my bad. Now if I sold most of my current mandos, I could afford that price tag. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Those Old Wave's sure are sweet too.

[Bill Van Liere]

A or F? Just hang around here on the Cafe for a while and you will end with both. I switch between a Flatiron F-5 (Bluegrass, or when I really need to stand out), and a Brentrup A (when I want to blend more like note for note with a Fiddle player). My expeience is that many F-5s have more "Cut" than a typical A-5.

[Bill Van Liere]

Man O Man, that Old Wave looks nice. I wish I could play that for a while.

[Jack Roberts]

So I feel pretty good, I've got an F (Collings MF), a C# (Gibson A-5) and an A (Gibson A-1). It sounds like a lot, but the total investment was not more than what I would have paid for most of the mid-range F-styles out there (Gibsons F5, Collings MF5, most of the better known small builders.) The A-oval has spectacular sound but won't "bark" when chopped. I play melodies and old timey on it. About 40% of my daily play. I have a C# that lacks the volume of the A, but with a smaller, narrower neck, and a sweet, clear sound, it is great for classsical music, about 30% of my daily play. The rest of the day I play my F with great projection, chop, and a great bluegrass sound that makes even me sound good. I play it several hours a week in jams, at gigs, and the remaining 30% of my daily practice. The first time I played the MF at a bluegrass jam, the guitarist said: "O.K., now you're bona fide!" I consider myself a beginner still, so I'm glad to have an instrument that can at least chop along with the big boys when they play the real thing.

It is not too useful to try to say which is better, since they have completely different sounds an playabilities. I would say my MF is the easiest to play, and the A-1 is the hardest with its skinny frets and flat, wide fingerboard. (I have to stretch my pinky more, or else the notes played with said pinky don't ring out as beautifully as they should.) The A-5 (C#) used to be hard on the hands to play, but Ken Cartwright just refretted it and set it up for classical music, and now I have a hard time putting it down. I'm loving my Cello suites again!

[Lee]

My turn, with another viewpoint.
I've always played A's merely for economic reasons; wanting to get the best mando for the bucko. One of my A's really sounded great and on a whim I bought the same builder's F5. I love everything about it; all except the stuff that makes it an F.
The body points sometimes fit into my lap OK, but only if I'm sitting in exactly the right position and posture. Sometimes the upper point digs into my thight. When I look down while I'm playing the scroll appears as this bulbous blossom protruding up into my face, almost like a goiter on the side of a tree. Off to the side of my vision the headtstock is much too busy with its rococo-esque excess of swirls, points and curly-cues, because of which the upper most tuner buttons are particulary difficult to grasp. The uneven length tuning posts aren't as solid feeling as the short equal-length posts on a snakehead.
I don't know any other instrument with such an abomination of flourish. Some of the art-deco cases on special issue Steinways come to mind but only on the F5 is such an extravagance the norm.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

thanks lee, those are my exact words, except theyre yours and you beat me to it. IMHO I am not a big fan of the way F-styles look (duck and cover)

[mandodebbie]

A or F.... ? Well, it depends on how well built they are. (I am just a beginner -one year of learning how to play- so please take what I say with a grain of salt.) My first mando was an A style F-hole Hyburn. It cost $150.00 and I sure got my money's worth. It was not very loud, but it looked purrty.(I have several nice portraits taken of me playing it,which I have yet to scan/download and put on this site.) It "died" within 8 months of rigourous use and was replaced by a F-style Samick. This one too is purrty, but I can actually hear it during a jam. (Except near the banjo, who drowns EVERYBODY out!) So far, I prefer my F-style over my A-style for obvious reasons. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Dagger Gordon]

The news that Andy Statman is soon to release a new mando album has got me going. When I think about it, the sound he got on Flatbush Waltz was fantastic. I believe he plays an old oval holed Gibson.

Tim O'Brien gets a great sound off his f-holed A model Nugget - to my mind sounding at its best on 'Red on Blonde'.

I've heard plenty of bluegrass played on F models. Phenomenol playing of course, but for the actual sound, you'd be hard put to better Statman and O'Brien's mandolins.

[otterly2k]

Lee and Phish...
I'd say that I'm with you generally speaking. Actually, I kind of like the look of the scroll, but the elaborate headstocks leave me cold...and they are so heavy, and to me they seem gaudy and unnecessary. And since I don't really chop much, I don't feel the need for the "bark" that folks talk about.

I will say that I like some of the other shapes out there... the two-points (especially Lyon + Healy asymmetrical), the Breedlove K, and there's a luthier out there making a G shape that I like quite a bit (forget the name of the builder).

I will say that I do appreciate the craft of building those F's. But I don't feel a strong need to own one.
KE

[davestem]

I currently have an A. Will soon have another A. I'd like an F (with F-holes), an A (with F-holes), an A (with oval hole), and one those Rigel G-110's. As far as sound goes, I've played plenty of both, and I usually prefer the sound of the F's, probably because they're built with bluegrass in mind, and I play bluegrass. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Frank Russell]

I feel nekkid if I don't have one of each. Frank

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Well, just to be a smart aleck, I'll point out that the original questions is: "A or F What do you prefer?"

For me A is just more versatile than F. 1) It's a vowel and there are only 5 real vowels in written english. 2) There's a lot of vocal chord in A, so you pronounce it any number of ways: long; short; schwa; with a New York, British, or Chicago accent. 3) F is a consonant, and while it is important, F has a much more limited utility. It is impossible for a 10 year old boy to mention passing gas without using the letter F --but then they's have to use A too! 4) It's pronunciation is non-vocal (you make the fff sound by touching your upper teeth to the inside of your bottom lip and pushing air through your mouth) so your opportunity for adding accent or music to it is nearly nil.

Nope. A has it all over F. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Daniel