New to F5 sound - A4 to F5 questions

[McIrish]

Hi,
Anyone change from an A4 style mandolin to an F5? How did you adjust?

I recently (yesterday) bought a very nice F5 mandolin. Yep, I gave in to scroll envy and was blown away by the fit and finish of the new mandolin. I've been playing a Weber Absaroka Oval hole A style mandolin for years. I've liked the Weber quite a bit but the A and E strings never were sweet sounding and they just didn't cut through when playing single note lines. The D and G strings are great with Silk and Bronze strings but way too brassy with J74's on it. I do a lot of palm mutes to get the lower strings under control. Anyway, after getting the new F5 I notice a couple things and I just want to run it by you to get some opinions. I've played F5's in stores but never did a side by side comparison.

F5
A & E strings sound very open, clear and sweet. They are not brittle but are still brighter than the oval hole. They are so nice, it makes me want to play everything on those strings. :-)
The D string seems pretty normal; not much bass but it has a nice midrange punch.
The G string sounds a little weak. It doesn't sound bad, but maybe I was so used to the oval hole sound on the lower courses that I'm missing some low end. It doesn't seem quite as punchy or loud as the D string. Is that fairly normal?

Can an F5 have much real warmth and "bigness" to the G strings? Like I said, I'm new to owning an F5. I'm not as familiar with the sound as I am with an oval hole mandolin. I've heard thousands of recordings but that is completely different from holding it in your hand.

I'm keeping the new F5 and seeing how it opens up over the next 6-8 months of playing. I'm just curious about what others felt when switching from an oval A to an F5. BTW; I don't play traditional bluegrass at all. Often, the mandolin is used as a rhythm instruments with interspersed lead lines.

I know you will want to know what brand and model F5 I have. I'd like to keep that a secret for just a little while. I'd absolutely hate to give anything close to negative response as I'm sure my problems stem from my lack of knowledge and familiarity with an F5. The F5 I bought has an impeccable fit and finish. It's varnished and I've personally never saw a mandolin that looked and played so nice. It was in the $4k price range.

Thanks for the feedback

[Marc Katz]

My first F5 was from a well known medium sized factory and cost around 4k. I was never happy with the lower strings. As it turns out, that particular mandolin didn't have a strong bass response. The next mandolin was much better, except I never was quite happy with the A string. Next mandolin had everything in sound, but had a neck that wasn't chunky enough....

It is very hard to get everything in one mandolin. That is why we all drool over high end mandolins and have MAS etc. I hope you enjoy your new mandolin and learn to work with your MAS. It's a journey...

Marc

[spufman]

I'm low on expertise in these matters, but I do sometimes wish for a little more oomf from the Gs on my $2600 range F. However when I hear it in recorded playback, it sounds real nice. I think from the player's perspective, the low end suffers most without that nice big hole, but the sound is still there for others, if a bit punchier.

Maybe play with different strings and bond with your new mando's personality, breaking it in for a while. Listen to recordings from out front. If eventually you decide the voice is not right for you, then you'll have a nice piece to trade for something more to your tonal preferences.

[Mandoplumb]

Spufman is right, the oval hole directs the sound more to you, the ff projects more,that's not saying yours is not weak on the G string, some are, but it just may be that you are not hearing it. Can you have someone else play it and you stand in front and listen or stand facing a corner and playing sometimes let's you hear more what it's putting out.

[mandroid]

Adjust, I just take it out of the case and play (Lebeda, Czech builder)..

OK the tone is different from the 1922 A 4 Gibson but the A 5 builds use a similar neck length .

minus the fancy labor intensive details around the sound chamber..

good luck with the blanket generalizations .. being Wood,

there is no consistency across the F5 mandolin market place , each is a bit different.

[McIrish]

Thank you everyone for the comments so far. I'm going to need to dive into the F5 a lot more to really get comfortable with the sound. I believe it has GHS mediums on it now. I may try a string change and double check to make sure the bridge is sitting perfectly flat before I call the builder to have a look at it.

[allenhopkins]

The "A-4 to F-5" somewhat misstates the issue; "A" and "F" have nothing, or nearly nothing, to do with it. It's oval-hole to f-hole.

The generalization is that f-hole, carved-top instruments have a quicker, more percussive initial response, and a quicker decay, than oval-hole instruments, which ring longer, and have a "fuller" sound.

Generalizations are useful in general, not always in specific. Your F-model mandolin has the characteristics, not only of an f-hole top, but of the manufacturer or individual luthier who made it. As did your Weber oval-hole. You don't want to tell us the brand; fine, but that's the crucial variable, IMHO. A Gibson f-hole instrument will be built to sound different from a Weber, a Collings, a Kentucky, or whatever brand you're playing.

So, other than the generalized characteristics of oval-holes vs. f-holes, the other factor is whatever voice the builder wanted to give it. At least that's how I see it.

[McIrish]

Thanks everyone,
Lots of good info here. I did find that the sound from the front is much bigger than what I'm hearing as the player. I wasn't aware that it would be so different. Guess I learned something.
I was aware that the main difference was in the holes and not shape of the body. That's why I stated A4 and F5; 4=oval and 5=f holes. I should have been a little clearer. You are right though Allen, the sound is going to be based on what the builder wants it to be. I've heard some great players on this model of mandolin and have always loved it. Then again, someone like Adam Steffey could play a low end mandolin and make it sound like a million.
While experimenting last night I did find that gripping the pick a little tighter and picking closer to the fingerboard warmed up the sound considerably. I think it will just take a while getting to know the new mandolin. I got so used to something else that the change threw me off a bit.
Thanks again everyone.

[UsuallyPickin]

McIrish ..... Don't over grip your pick .... what thickness is it anyway? I generally use about a 1.5MM myself..... experiment your strings and picks some ... after years of looking around I settled on BC CT-55 picks and XJ75 D'Adarrio strings . Though I have to say I picked up a set of Kurt Mangan to try out on my sons recommendation ...... Enjoy your new Mandolin ...... R/

[Gary Leonard]

I recently acquired an F style Weber Bitterroot, and I noticed that the pick makes a big difference. I was playing with a BC 40TAD-1R mainly, and it was a bit hard to drive, compared to my Collings MT. Since I have misplaced the 40TAD, I switched to the 60TAD-1R and wow, much louder.

[McIrish]

Lately, I've been using the Dulop Primetone picks.
http://www.jimdunlop.com/product/primetone-tri-grip
I don't have to grip them tight to stay in place but I noticed if I hold them loose, the sound thins out pretty bad. Just a solid grip, nothing overbearing. I also use ProPleks too, when I can find ones the right thickness; but that's a whole other thread. :)
I prefer 1.5mm for mandolin picks. Anything thicker and I lose speed; anything much thinner sounds.... thinner.