Warning: terrible sound quality on Mel Bay ÇD

[swampstomper]

I recently purchased the Mel Bay's Complete Jethro Burns Mandolin Book (with Ken Eidson). Very interesting and challenging, lots of fun to work on. It is really expanding my horizons after many years of Monroe worship.

But... the purpose of this post is to warn others about the horrible quality of the enclosed CD's. They sound like they were recorded off the original casettes with a microphone held to the casette deck. Terrible distortion and warbling pitch. Sure, there's enough to hear what's going on but it's a shame to be deprived of Jethro's clean picking. I wrote the company ten days ago (e-mail) and got no reply.

So... buyer beware.

[J. Mark Lane]

Well, for whatever it's worth, I have this set, too, and I've never been bothered by the sound quality.

True, the tracks do sound like they were recorded on a cheap recorder, through a cheap mic. I don't know when the recordings were made -- the book doesn't indicate. But I never had any problem hearing what was being said and done.

The purpose of the recorded material is obviously to illustrate and explain the written material, and it does that just fine imo. I mean, you could complain about the sound quality on a lot of the Bill Monroe recordings, too, but they are still amazing and invaluable, and part of our American heritage. So is this set, in a way.

[swampstomper]

Mark, no question this is a valuable set and I can highly recommend it. It's just a shame about the sound quality. For the tunes that I have on other Jethro CD's (like Jethro's Tune, Fickle Fingers etc.) I just use the original recordings. But then they are somewhat different from the tabbed version.

I've never heard a Monroe recording that sounds as bad as these, even radio transcriptions.

[neal]

I have that one, and it sounds ok to me. Maybe you just got a bad one?

[mandocrucian]

These recordings are about 30 years old. The author, Ken Eidson died 10 or so years ago. The original tapes, whether reel-to-reel or recorded to a component cassette deck, are probably long gone and lost forever. The dubs to digital, no doubt, were made from the 2 cassette copies (with handwritten labels) that Ken Eidson sold, separately from the book, via mail order for $20 (at the time). #Somewhere in a shoebox full of old cassettes, I've probably still got the ones I ordered. How deteriorated they've become, I have no idea. #

Mel Bay probably should have a statement somewhere in the book or CD track list regarding the age and replication of the recordings. Then there's no quasijustifiable complaints regarding fidelty. #"This Robert Johnson (or Django, or Tsistansis, or Satchmo) CD I just bought sounds awful...as bad as an old shellac 78rpm record!

Niles Hokkanen

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I have 100-200 hours on cassette, possibly more, of interviews and such with name players (for various magazine articles/pieces in Mandocrucian's Digest, Fiddler, Acoustic Guitar, Acoustic Musician, Dirty Linen, Frets, Banjo Newsletter etc, some never made it to publication) over a 15-20 year period. I've thought about copying them over to CDR for archival preservation, but I suppose it wouldn't be too ultra-time consuming if I just let the machines run and didn't put in any track indexes beyond "side 1" and "side 2". Just check on the machines every 30 or 45 minutes to pause the record and turn the cassette over. & Burn some extra calories running up and down the stairs to the basement.

I have no idea what the possible accumulated value (financial and/or archival-historical) of these would be. Maybe I'll leave the collection to the Finnish Folk Music Institute if they'll promise me a real Viking funeral.</span>

[swampstomper]

Niles, thanks for the clarification. I agree a disclaimer would have solved the issue for me. Of course I don't expect Robert Johnson recordings to have modern quality! I notice on the recent Osborne Bros. "Detroit to Wheeling" 2CD that I have that there are some radio transcriptions from WWVA (Red Allen in full force!); Sonny says in the liner notes "these do not meet modern standards for broadcast and are included only for historical interest".

[Don]

On a somewhat related note,I've ordered VHS videos from well respected and thought of instructors(mando and b#@&) and the video quality looked as if it were a third generation copy-you know,a copy of a copy of a copy.And the audio in certain portions of the b#@& video were totally garbled.But poor as the quality was,the message got thru.I was still shocked and disappointed at the poor quality.
Don.

[swampstomper]

Don, maybe you can give some specifics so we can all be warned?

I will say something positive: I have the 2-DVD Homespun set of Monroe hosted by Hartford, and the 2nd with Sam Bush breaking it down, and these are good quality. A little muddy, not CD quality, but certainly reasonable and no distortion. Dana Cupp's b@#*o comes through very nicely also. There is concert footage of WSM + Doc at the White House 1980 (James Earl Carter as MC) which is also pretty good. I've learned a lot from this set.

I bought some kind of mandolin dvd a while back. It had great tunes on it but you couldnt here the mandolin. All you saw was the guy playing it nad heard the guitar way more then the mando.

Maybe they did that on purpose but it didnt help me none.

Not dealing with MelBay though it was some other thing.

[LKN2MYIS]

All in all, you're lucky.

I couldn't find one with the CD and was forced to buy
the version WITHOUT the CD.

Makes learning new tunes REAL tough. I'd love to have the CD, warbly or not.

[J. Mark Lane]

And the audio in certain portions of the b#@& video were totally garbled.
Um, well...I mean...only certain portions?

[delsbrother]

All in all, you're lucky.

I couldn't find one with the CD and was forced to buy
the version WITHOUT the CD.

Makes learning new tunes REAL tough. I'd love to have the CD, warbly or not.
Amen to that. Could one purchase just the CD from Mel Bay?

[swampstomper]

I found my copy at music44.com. This was back in mid-February. The CD's are in plastic sleeves in the back.

[dunbarhamlin]

Less than optimal sound reproduction is acceptable given the circumstances (and I'm tempted to say inevitable given our Lo-Fi digital age)

&lt;soapbox action=getuponto&gt;
What I find utterly unacceptable is the impoverished technical prowess exhibited on some of these recordings. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif When individuals, reputedly in the top flight of their chosen genre, release material with fluffed notes and cruddy tone it can but deter rather than enthuse the student.
&lt;/soapbox action=climbdownfrom&gt;

I won't mention names, as he's supposed to be a really nice guy, and I've ranted about this Homespun (apt) effort before.

Why does this wind me up?
Each note should be treated as a significant part in the phrase, with its own potential for expression and beauty, and the student should be presented with examples (yes, even scales) which reinforce their desire to progress by offering something to aspire to.


Steve http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[glauber]

In a perfect world.

[dunbarhamlin]

In a perfect world.

Too true. I think as a hangover from violin studies, I still often practice the first note of a piece in isolation - perhaps I should take up shakuhachi http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Larry S Sherman]

I have this book/CD set and didn't really notice the sound quality issue. I just wish that more of the songs were on the CD.

I've been learning "Going Down the Road Feelin' Bad" and wish I could find a version of Jethro actually playing it.

I'm so blown away by how good that guy was.

Larry

[kudzugypsy]

these recordings were never intended to be more than educational. you've got to understand, this was the late 70s - they are lo-fi, but learning jethros stuff without them is painful. i listen to all types of old live radio shows and pre-war recordings, and i guess you just get use to it. believe me, its a TREASURE to have them at all. i mean, they could pay Don S. to re-record all that stuff, but i'd rather have the MAN.

think about all the 'floppy' records that use to come with method books...you know, the ones you had to put 2 quarters on to keep from destroying your turntable. people are a tad bit spoiled these days.

you study that book...and you WILL learn the mandolin. its ALL in there.

[swampstomper]

OK Kudzu, I stand corrected. You are so right about this being great stuff and well-played on the CD's (transfer from ancient casettes no doubt). Yeah, I remember the Jack Tottle BG mandolin book and the Winnie Winston pedal steel book with the floppy records!! and I got something out of those. So I'll stop bellyaching and start practicing.

[kudzugypsy]

hey, thats funny...swampstomper & kudzugypsy
hey swamp, i do feel cheated on modern stuff that is poor quality, but IMO, the best material out there is now out of print...like the Tiny Moore book.

not only that, but a large number of the best recordings are also out of print, so finding that rare Tommy Jackson LP with the great Hank Garland (of sugarfoot rag fame) playing mandolin is a treat in any condition, plus most of jethros stuff has been out of print too, available only thru japanese imports at $30 a pop. so i really dont mind that kind of thing. there is some footage of Dave Apollon (not to mention his recordings) on the web that is completely ####, but hey, seeing him play is priceless.