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sagebrush
Mar-08-2015, 10:48am
Hi there! This is my first post on the forum. I started playing mandolin a few years ago, but then grad school and work got in the way and I only picked it back up again this January. After a month or so of playing, I realized my Rogue wasn't going to satisfy me long-term, so I decided to upgrade.

Long story short, I settled on purchasing a Kentucky 505 from a small music store. That was at the end of January. I still do not have the mandolin. The store did not have a Kentucky 505 in stock, so they ordered it for me from Saga (yes, I bought it unseen and unplayed-- around here, I don't have many other options, so I went with buying from a small local-ish store with what I thought was great customer service). Saga told the store owner that they were "reintroducing" the 505 with new and improved features, and so they would be delayed in shipping out. It's a month and a half later and Saga has still not told the store an estimated ship date.

I guess my question is-- has anyone else heard that this is happening with the 505? Has Saga had issues before with shipping dates or having their mandolins be difficult to obtain?

Had I known when I ordered it that I would still be waiting in March, I don't think I would have gone through with the sale. At this point, I'm wondering if I should try to cancel the order and get the other mandolin I've had my eye on.

Thanks for reading a ridiculously long post. I guess that's the English teacher in me!

Northwest Steve
Mar-08-2015, 11:06am
You might contact Saga/Kentucky directly and try to get the straight answer. I have contacted them a few times with questions and they have always responded promptly and were helpful.

http://www.sagamusic.com/products/show-mandolins.aspx?brand=kentucky

allenhopkins
Mar-08-2015, 12:24pm
Realize that everything being shipped between Asia to West Coast ports, is seriously backlogged due to recently-resolved labor disputes. I had some (friendly) interactions with an Eastman rep months ago, regarding their current shipments, and this was before the union slowdowns, mainly over schedule and safety issues, that resulted in both exports and imports being delayed.

Six weeks or so is far from a long time to wait, for what's basically a newly-revised model. Your local store should have given you a realistic estimate of potential delay; perhaps they were unduly optimistic, perhaps based on prior experience with Saga.

We think of our imported instruments as being important, high-priority items, but they're a minuscule fraction of the huge trade volume between Asia and North America. Hundreds of ships carry millions of tons back and forth every year, and our mandolins are in tiny nooks in a couple of containers. We hope that manufacturers, shippers, and dealers treat them with highest priority, but we have a skewed perspective on international commerce.

Second NW Steve's advice to e-mail Saga and see what they say. It's annoying to be waiting on an eagerly-anticipated mandolin, but patience may well be in order.

Northwest Steve
Mar-08-2015, 12:31pm
Allen probably hit the nail on the head as far as the slow down at the docks. I believe that has been settled and should start seeing less issues going forward.

DWM
Mar-08-2015, 1:26pm
The 505 is out of stock everywhere. Musician's Friend shows a ship date of 4/16/2015, so it looks like it's going to be a bit longer.

Timbofood
Mar-08-2015, 3:04pm
"Sittin in a boat on the bay" to paraphrase Mr. Pickett
Sorry, I will go stand in a corner, again. ;)

Jackgaryk
Mar-08-2015, 3:37pm
Another mandolin "horror" story. I'm feeling your pain Sage...You shouldn't have to wait that long on a mandolin. Just not right. I think I would seriously consider the other mandolin you have had your eye on. Just my opinion.

sagebrush
Mar-08-2015, 4:01pm
Thanks for all the helpful input! I should have considered the port shutdown as a factor, since has been all over the news here. It has been resolved so hopefully shipments will slowly start to trickle in.

I'm new to the world of mandolin, and impatient by nature, so it is a bit reassuring to know that long waits for mandolins are not unusual. Still, I wish the guy from the music store would have told me it was backordered once Saga told him, since he did quote me two weeks. I didn't find out until the two weeks had passed and I was still mandolin-less and hadn't heard from him.

Sounds like I just need to hold my horses and be patient. I'll keep plunking along on my Rogue for now. I hope the 505 is worth the wait...

FLATROCK HILL
Mar-08-2015, 6:20pm
"Sittin in a boat on the bay" to paraphrase Mr. Pickett
Sorry, I will go stand in a corner, again. ;)

Isn't that Mr. Redding you were paraphrasing?
Additional time in the corner!

Jackgaryk
Mar-08-2015, 6:39pm
you are right Flatrock..that was Otis. get your drift Tim, I've had sitting on the dock of the bay in my head since I read your post.

Ivan Kelsall
Mar-09-2015, 3:32am
From Northwest Steve - "You might contact Saga/Kentucky directly.....". While Steve's advice is sound,trying to get any answer or make contact with SAGA is totally futile. I've e-mailed SAGA several times & never had one reply to any query. The only thing that you can hope for is that your store will keep you informed. I played a KM505 a couple of years back at a music store over here & i can say that the sound was way beyond what you'd expect from a mandolin of that price - well worth an extended wait as frustrating as that can be. I had to wait an extra 4 months for my new Stelling banjo after i'd ordered it due to manufacturing problems,but oh boy !,it was worth it,
Ivan;)

Petrus
Mar-09-2015, 4:55am
I've also had good a good interaction with Saga. I emailed them a few weeks ago about a scratched tailpiece cover on a Kentucky, asking how I could purchase a new one (with "Kentucky" inscribed on it, not just a generic one, which you can get anywhere.) They never actually replied but lo and behold, a week later I was surprised to receive a new tailpiece cover in the mail at no cost! :)

Timbofood
Mar-09-2015, 7:03am
Sorry, brain cramp! Of course it was Otis Redding! First day with new time!;)

Folkmusician.com
Mar-16-2015, 1:49pm
As far as shipping issues and delays, it is perfectly normal. This is the case with mandolins in general. There have been no KM-505 mandolins available this year.

Kentucky is in the midst of a major change (happens every few years). A good portion of the models have been discontinued or changed to a new factory. So far, everything from the new factory has in fact been better. I haven't specifically talked to them about the new KM-505, but if you take a look at the new KM-250, you should get some idea.

Aside from the dock strikes and all the other standard issues that come up with importing, "Chinese New Year" causes major delays. Everything shuts down for close to a month and workers often take off a week or two early and arrive back to cities a week or two late. All told, there are 20-25 days where everything is entirely shutdown and another 20-40 days where a good portion of the workforce is absent. Throw in a dock strike, and you can easily have 4 months (with shipping time) with no product and this is if the mandolins were already close to finished.

Here is the hypothetical situation:
Mandolin production starts in November. Come Feb, they are just about finished, but everyone takes off to head home for Chinese New Year. Things start to get up and running again in mid March, but are not back to full operation until April. Mandolins finally get finished, then get sent over to a warehouse for consolidation with various other things that will go on the container. Who knows how long this will take. They finally start the sea voyage over which takes a few weeks, then get caught in a dock strike that holds everything up a week. Once the strike is over, there is a backlog and it takes a few days longer to get the container on a truck. Now a couple of containers arrive at Saga at once and they have to unload and start going through the instruments. As the instruments are checked, they start shipping them to dealers. All the mandolins are pre-sold since some dealers ordered 5 months ago. It might take a few days for all the mandolins to finally be shipped out. It will now take 1 more week for any Eastern Dealers to receive the mandolin. All this together is why 6 month delays are not uncommon. Now add a couple more potential delays. Something doesn't pass quality control and production starts over. And the other common thing... The mandolins are oversold when they arrive so not all dealers get their orders filled. Some dealers will wait many more months. This all happens with standard production models. Additional delays should always be expected if it is a new model.


Obviously, someone like Saga has a great deal of experience with supply chain issues and anticipates most. Even so, at it given time I have multiple models (not just Saga) that are backordered for 6-12 months!

sagebrush
Mar-16-2015, 8:11pm
Thanks so much for all the information-- I'm a newbie at this whole mandolin thing and it is extremely reassuring to know that all of this is normal, even if I wasn't prepared for it from a "lower-end" instrument. It would be just my luck that I would buy one when they are in the middle of a change, around Chinese New Year, and during a dock strike!

I wish the shop owner I bought it from would be a little more communicative about the delay, but I'll try to be patient. It sounds like it will be a nice instrument when it finally gets here.

Is it fair for me to ask the seller to give me an update weekly, even if he doesn't have anything new to report? Or should I just zip it and wait until he emails me to say that it is on its way?

allenhopkins
Mar-16-2015, 10:58pm
...I wish the shop owner I bought it from would be a little more communicative about the delay...Is it fair for me to ask the seller to give me an update weekly, even if he doesn't have anything new to report? Or should I just zip it and wait until he emails me to say that it is on its way?

I'm not sure of the value of a weekly "Haven't heard anything this week, either" report. Quite possibly the shop owner has little or no info. What you could ask him/her to do, is give you contact information for the Saga distributor rep with whom the shop deals. When I had an issue regarding a replacement tailpiece for an Eastman mandocello, I got the name, e-mail and phone number for the Eastman rep from my local dealer, and the rep and I had a couple conversations regarding the status of shipment of the part.

If you have a local shop that may order one or two mandolins from Kentucky per year, the shop owner may not be communicating frequently with the factor rep or the distributor. Wouldn't hurt to ask, though, and the next-higher link in the food chain may have more information regarding shipping status.

Robert from folkmusician.com says in Post #14 above that nobody's getting the 505's. And he deals with Saga probably a lot more often than your local store, at least concerning Kentucky mandolins. Noodging the local dealer is probably only going to generate more annoyance, on your part and on the store's part.

sagebrush
Mar-17-2015, 8:08am
It probably wouldn't do any good, you're right. I have been holding off on bugging him, but I have friends who think I should be making a bigger deal out of this than I am. I hadn't thought to ask him for the name of the dealer. He runs a pretty small shop, so I'm not sure how much he works with anyone. I could look into it though if I get really impatient.

Folkmusician.com
Mar-24-2015, 12:28pm
Still no ETA as of Yesterday:

I do have this though!

132166

terzinator
Mar-24-2015, 2:03pm
the front view looks oddly bulbous and asymmetrical.

But I know that's not the real shape of things.

sagebrush
Apr-26-2015, 10:45am
So in case anyone was curious, I finally heard from the owner of the store where I purchased my Kentucky 505. He said it would be July before he would be getting any in. He offered to switch my order to a 500 instead, because according to the Kentucky rep he worked with, they are exactly the same model, just a different finish. I have tried to do some research on the 500, but I haven't found much-- just some previous posts from the cafe saying they have had some issues and are made in a different factory than the 505. So would that be a fair swap? I don't care so much what it looks like, I just want a better sound than my Rogue. I know I could wait until July, but I'm a teacher, and waiting until July means I miss out on having a decent mandolin for half of my summer hardcore-practice time.

Chuck Hooper
Apr-26-2015, 2:45pm
i feel your pain.i had a little fender 100 that i started out with this time last year.started taking lessons and the "upgrade" bug bit me hard.i saw the kentucky 505 and called musicians friend to order one.i talked to robert. he asked me how long i had been playing and what my goals were as they related to the mandolin.the kentucky would take awhile(this was back in late dec 2014.)i asked what he thought. he suggested an eastman 505.i ordered it and i haven't looked back since.in my mind it's a beautiful looking instrument ,very easy to play and sounds "sweet as soda pop"(guess the first song i learned to play!)one day i might order a kentucky 505,but not any time soon.

Chuck Hooper
Apr-26-2015, 2:47pm
my apologies to robert....it's folkmusician!!!!!!

acousticphd
Apr-27-2015, 11:01am
I would say there is a pretty good chance of finding the same mandolin(s) (a KM-505, 500, or 550) here or elsewhere in the same period of time. There was a nice used KM-505 in the café classifieds (now sold, for a nice barely used price) just last week. There are two 505s, one 500, and one 550 on ebay at the moment. Yes, it is a shame to cancel a sale with a music store and turn to the web, but if they don't have what you want, sometimes that is the better option.

Timbofood
Apr-27-2015, 11:38am
Nice to have a follow up! Sometimes I think these threads just fade away and the inquiring minds still want to know.
But seriously, you will find something that will make you happy, there are so many good mandolins now. I agree this is too long. Go find something you like!

Folkmusician.com
Apr-27-2015, 12:19pm
my apologies to robert....it's folkmusician!!!!!! ;)



they are exactly the same model, just a different finish

Incorrect. The KM-505 is entirely different than the 500 and 550 (which are the same). They were made in different locations from different materials. I would be more inclined to drop down to a KM-250.

Capt. E
Apr-27-2015, 2:39pm
;)




Incorrect. The KM-505 is entirely different than the 500 and 550 (which are the same). They were made in different locations from different materials. I would be more inclined to drop down to a KM-250.
I'll agree to this. I have no idea what really makes the 500/550 different from the 505, but the 505 has been considered superior for quite a while. I also think the KM-250 is rather nice as well (the oval hole 240's are also pretty nice).

sagebrush
Apr-27-2015, 6:24pm
;)




Incorrect. The KM-505 is entirely different than the 500 and 550 (which are the same). They were made in different locations from different materials. I would be more inclined to drop down to a KM-250.


Well, I'm annoyed that the rep gave what seems to be not quite true information. I'm thinking that the 250 would suit my needs just fine and give me some more change back in my pocket, so I'll see if that is possible instead of the 500. If not, well, then, I guess I'll cancel my sale.

I saw that 505 in the classifieds a few days ago, and I wish I would have just jumped on it and canceled my order! But what's done is done.

Capt. E
Apr-27-2015, 10:40pm
You'll like the 250. Make sure he sets it up properly. That is assuming he knows how. Worst scenario is you end up paying a good luthier $75 to do it. Look for the info here on the cafe about what a set up entails. You need to learn to do most of it yourself anyway, things like setting the intonation.

Folkmusician.com
May-18-2015, 8:27pm
OK....

As usual, the model numbers are being changed around again. No KM-505 mandolins available yet, however, the very first NEW KM-500 mandolins just made it in (unexpectedly). So, while this didn't apply before, the new KM-500 really is the same as the NEW KM-505 with the exception of the color. The KM-500 is the vintage sunburst version. For anyone reading this and thinking about getting a 500, you are looking for one that is sunburst and has a pick guard, and the same headstock inlay as the KM-505. I'll see about getting a couple of pics posted.

bbaker2050
May-22-2015, 10:42am
OK....

As usual, the model numbers are being changed around again. No KM-505 mandolins available yet, however, the very first NEW KM-500 mandolins just made it in (unexpectedly). So, while this didn't apply before, the new KM-500 really is the same as the NEW KM-505 with the exception of the color. The KM-500 is the vintage sunburst version. For anyone reading this and thinking about getting a 500, you are looking for one that is sunburst and has a pick guard, and the same headstock inlay as the KM-505. I'll see about getting a couple of pics posted.

So how does the new Kentucky 500 sound? Any difference in sound between the 500 and the 250?