Upgrading to a cast tail piece?

[Dazzlebrush]

Hi All,

Darren here from Surrey, England.
this is my first post, Sorry if this question has been asked a thousend times before.

I have a Loar LM 500 VS. It has had its bridge upgraded to a Cumberland by its previous owner, whom by which im told it made a remarkable improvement to its tone.

Would upgrading to a solid cast tailpiece further improve tone enough on a mandolin of this quality to warrant the payout?

I think it sounds very nice already but would like know what the possiblilies might be.

Regards,
Darren.

[Rob Beck]

Hello Darren,

Welcome to the cafe :)

I think you will find that in the main people will say that a cast tail piece will make no discernible difference to the tone of the instrument (although some people do say they can detect an improvement) - however it will probably make string changing easier.

For a more detailed breakdown it is probably worth doing a search through the posts to the forum.
Searching the cafe can be tricky sometimes, and people seem to obtain the best results by using Google, adding "site:mandolincafe.com" to the search string to restrict results to the cafe e.g. "site:mandolincafe.com cast tailpiece"

[LongBlackVeil]

i would say no

[Dazzlebrush]

Thanks for the advice. I will stick with what is on there already.

[terzinator]

I'd agree with those above who say it probably won't result in much of a tonal improvement, but I would say this: A cast tailpiece is much more aesthetically pleasing than a wimpy stamped-steel thing.

It's like upgraded tuners. Lesser tuners are serviceable, but sometimes the feel of an upgraded tuner is worth the cost. Sometimes. (A sunburst won't improve the sound over a solid color, but you might prefer it. Nor will a leather strap vs a nylon one.)

I did this on a very inexpensive Mid-Mo mandolin (my first mandolin), and it was much more enjoyable to change strings with that tailpiece, than it was with the stock unit.

So, my feeling is that if you can find a used one, and want one, go for it. Just don't expect a night-and-day tone difference.

[Dazzlebrush]

Thanks Chris,
Aesthetics are part of the reason I was looking at them, there doesnt seem to be any in the uk but I will keep an eye out.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I swapped the 'tin' tailpiece on my very first mandolin,a Michael Kelly 'Legacy' for an Allen cast t/piece,not because the 'tin' one sounded bad,but that it was simply a piece of 'c**p !.The top cover was twisted & must have been forced on to the main part & even that was off centre. The Allen was a breeze to fit - one off one on,but apart from a slight increase in sustain,there was no change in overall 'tone'. The Allen t/piece also looked much nicer (IMHO).
You must also be prepared to fork out around 25% on top of the cost of the tailpiece if you import from the USA (where else can you buy one ?) & our Post Office will charge you an £8 'handling fee'. That means they put it on a shelf until you collect it yourself, & pay the duty & tax,
Ivan
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[Dave Hanson]

When someone comes on this forum and admits to changing the standard tailpiece on a Lloyd Loar signed Gibson for a cast tailpiece and says it improves the sound or the aesthetics, I may be convinced.

Dave H

[8ch(pl)]

I swore it sounded nicer when I put one on my Mid Missouri M-4. I now attribute that to having put new strings on at the same time as I swapped out the tailpiece. Realistically, the answer is no to your question. However, a nice cast tailpiece like the Allen pictured in this thread, is a lot stiffer than a stamped sheet metal "Gibson type" tailpiece. I have Weber tailpieces on 2 instruments and like them. In my view they also look better, so it is still valid to think about changing.

In my case, the 2 Mid Missouri instruments that I own were the best that I was ever going to own. Therefore, I felt that the Cast Bronze Weber tailpieces made them better.

[Mike Arakelian]

Thanks Chris,
Aesthetics are part of the reason I was looking at them, there doesnt seem to be any in the uk but I will keep an eye out.

Type "mandolin tailpiece" into your browser. You'll be directed to several sites that carry cast tail pieces including Allen Guitars (NFI). There you will find a nice variety of cast tail pieces at reasonable prices. Good luck.

[Tom Morse]

131264My 1984 Washburn "Jethro Burns" MS4 seemed to sound better with the Allen Luthiers cast tail piece. Placebo effect?

[akjed]

Aesthetics and servicability are my reasons for changing the tailpiece. That, plus I'm adding an internal pickup and figure best to do both at once.

My question is, I ordered a Montelone Goldengate piece but the holes don't match up with the holes on the stamped factory piece on my Kentucky. I haven't talked to my luthier yet, but is this going to work?

[mandroid]

I replaced a Lebeda <vastly different > took gluing in a Plug and re drilling the jack & screw holes ,

but the James in my case covered up the work needed .. stamped Gibson clone tailpieces

have matching spaced Cast TP made , to directly replace those very common TP, since so many are used.


Placebo effect?
maybe , or since you put new strings on after the new tailpiece job was done,

The new strings may make the Difference.. Vs the old ones
that came off at the Shop doing the work.

[SincereCorgi]

That Loar is no slouch as a mandolin, but my two cents is that you should put the tailpiece money into a fund for your next instrument, one that comes with a fancy tailpiece.

I had a fancy Allen tailpiece installed on my Northfield and it makes no discernible difference to the tone, but I just like it much better than the gross one it came with.

[Mandobart]

The thing I like best about the cast Allen tailpieces on my mandola, OM's and mandocello is they allow the use of ball end strings. So much easier to be able to go into any music store and buy individual guitar strings in the gage I want than to have to order loop end strings (in the gages I don't want). I use octave pairs so I make up custom string sets.

[Ivan Kelsall]

akjed - The Monteleone tailpiece holes are his own pattern,the same with the cast Weber t/pieces. The t/piece holes in my Lebeda cast t/piece are Monte.pattern as well. Most other t/pieces use the Gibson 'standard' hole pattern & can usually be swapped out & changed in minutes. If you go ahead with the fitting ot your Monte.t/piece,it's a plug & re-drill job,best left to a good luthier,that's if any of the existing holes don't show outside the 'footprint' of the Monte.t/piece. Most likely,an Allen cast t/piece would fit without any work at all,
Ivan;)
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