Rinestone Loar

[Mike Snyder]

Last weekend in Oklahoma I had the honor of being in close proximity to a Loar that recently belonged to a Mr. Frank Ray of Missouri. It was inlaid about the headstock with multiple rhinestones. Does anyone have background info on this Loar? It has a lovely tone and was certainly well played in Monroe style. The rhinestones puzzle me to no end. I was shocked to realize that they were inlaid and not merely applied. The volume was not impressive but adequate, and the owner very kind. He has performed in the Midwest for many, many years. The mandolin is in very good condition and beautiful except for the stones and a rather plain back. This inquiry is for my curiosity only. Thanks.

[pheffernan]

It is mentioned in this thread: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?31644-Frank-ray%27s-loar. Is it this one: http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/75940? How about this one: https://myspace.com/rhinestoneloar24/mixes/classic-the-1924-rhinestone-loar-408583?. Larry Sledge is said to have had one here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?79543-Lovely-inlay-on-this-Glad-it-is-not-a-Loar.

[Mike Snyder]

Yes, the one in the archive. I had no idea that rhinestones were that prevalent. Why? Who? Surely not Gibson. Perhaps I'm stodgy about decorating instruments. Never have cared for the stones and hanging headstock feathers. But on a Loar? My prejudice is showing, I'm afraid.

[Darryl Wolfe]

This actually almost became my first Loar mandolin in 1976. Larry Sledge lived in Nashville at the time and had it for sale. He ended up keeping it..and I bought the Griffith F5. The rhinestones were always there, so it must be assumed that the original owner H. Torro put them in it

[Mike Snyder]

Thanks, Darryl, that mostly answers my question. That long ago it was just another nice mandolin. Much less of a travesty than stoning a known masterpiece. Mike plays it well and it has a nice tone but nothing like Reischmans.

[stevedenver]

speculation and conjecture only....
I can imagine that the owner saw a Gibson Florentine banjo, 4 or 5 string, of the era, and liked the looks.

Simply described, the Florentines had ornate carving, gold hardware, solid pearl fingerboards with hand painted scenes ,and
the edge and Gibson were made using multi colored rhinestones-

I saw one years ago first hand at a party, and they are jaw dropping in their ornateness, gaudy, perhaps, but unique and a reflection, so to speak, of the times

[allenhopkins]

...Simply described, the Florentines had ornate carving, gold hardware, solid pearl fingerboards with hand painted scenes ,and the edge and Gibson were made using multi colored rhinestones...

Actually, Pearloid, a celluloid plastic that looked like mother-of-pearl, and is now "dissed" as "mother-of-toilet-seat."

One of the flashiest instruments ever made, IMHO. There was a "one-of" Gibson F-5 that came close, though; made in the '80's, and once owned by Butch Baldassari. Here's (http://guitars.com/archived-inventory/GibFlorMando/MF7313.html) Gruhn's archive entry of it.

[AlanN]

As seen here (although this photo makes it appear white - same mandolin?)

[stevedenver]

Actually, Pearloid, a celluloid plastic that looked like mother-of-pearl, and is now "dissed" as "mother-of-toilet-seat."

One of the flashiest instruments ever made, IMHO. There was a "one-of" Gibson F-5 that came close, though; made in the '80's, and once owned by Butch Baldassari. Here's (http://guitars.com/archived-inventory/GibFlorMando/MF7313.html) Gruhn's archive entry of it.

yes indeed pearloid Allen, shouldn't have used my broad brush language
a century of progress.....

great link, I have seen that one, but, it didn't do it for me, (bad top checking in that photo too)
and, fwiw, the headstock treatment is not really like the banjos and the colorful rhinestone script
but that is so Jim Triggs.......more is more.....

[stevedenver]

http://www.turtlehillbanjo.com/images/Gibson/GibsonFlorentine1934.html

http://www.12fret.com/2015/01/06/1927-gibson-florentine-tenor-banjo/

the second link is the type I have seen first hand

[GKWilson]

I think the simple answer is Nashville, the 50's-60's, everything and everybody had rhinestones on them.

[Timbofood]

The "Bella Voce" was over the top too! Carved everywhere, dripping in pearl and pearloid as was the "All American" with the eagle on the resonator. What a fascinating time, back then. Ahh banjos...

[Kieran]

As seen here (although this photo makes it appear white - same mandolin?)

Must be the same one.White can yellow down after time.I've seen a previously white, yellowed Gibson guitar that was passed on by a famous country act as it didn't match their wardrobe anymore.


http://moloneymusic.com

[dang]

:crying:

I think I was better off not knowing that this happened to a real Loar era Gibson...

[Bigtuna]

Someone needs to pull a Monroe and brake out a pocket knife!

[allenhopkins]

Sorta similar story to the "parrot Loar" with "art" work added to its back; I think these modifications over the years are part of these instruments' histories, and it would be a shame, IMHO, to "restore" them back to "original condition" -- especially if the modifications don't harm them acoustically.

I have some old instruments that have been "personalized" to a greater or lesser extent -- not by me! -- and I think it adds to their "provenance" in a positive way. And when I had a mandolin/mandola built for me, I had Bernie Lehmann add my initials to it. Any subsequent owner is free to remove them, of course.

[Timbofood]

As far as "personalization" this is not that bad, they rhinestones could be removed and have the peghead restored. Sure as shootin' I would not "break out the pocket knife", that would be pretty extreme. To be honest, if it was mine, I'd just live with them. Certainly an identifier if stolen!

[Mike Snyder]

The owner has no intention of any alteration to the headstock. He was delighted to own the instrument and stated that it was the fulfillment of a career-long dream. He led a mandolin workshop and is fairly good at it. It was heavily Monroe-style, befitting a bluegrass festival, and he has done the workshop for years. I did not offer an old-time tune as I have in the past. The Loar was unmistakable in appearance and tone, a thrill for me and several others. Some fellas played it. I don't know the owner that well.

[Timbofood]

Thanks Mike, nice to know that the owner is happy and will not fuss with his Loar! Like I say, everyone will know who owns it!

[MonFlavor]

I was around this mandolin a lot as a teenager. Rich Orchard and Frank Ray owned the mandolin through their vintage instrument collection and trading. I played mandolin with Rich and it was the mandolin I carried for two years.

From what I was told, the mandolin was ordered from the factory with rhinestones in the peghead. Inspired by the high end Gibson banjos. Larry Sledge played it for well over 30 years before the mandolin was bought by Rich and Frank. I actually put the waverly tuners on the mandolin. It always had the pickguard on it when I had it. Unique redlined original case as well. Virzi no 10050 I believe. Larry had the back rim cut and pryed the back apart to pluck the virzi out.
For many years if was known as the H.S. Torro mandolin, but Larry corrected me one day saying it was H.F. The reason he knew was when he bought the mandolin, a signed paper label was over the Loar signed label with H.F. Torro’s signature. Story was Torro didn’t like another man’s name in his mandolin. Larry told me he still had the label and virzi, but that was ten years ago or so.

Another interesting fact, this mandolin can be heard on Bill Monroe’s “Master Of Bluegrass” Album. Larry played a lot of the triple mandolin harmony parts on those recordings. I played it every other set for over two years without Ozark Bluegrass Boys and every Monday night during that time at The Hardee’s Monday night jam sessions in House Springs, MO.

I was always a fan of its evenness. It was never super powerful, but it was pleasant and even. A lot of warmth.

[Willie Poole]

Just think of the history of that mandolin if Monroe had of owned it, WOW...I think Big Mon was more into more normal less fancy things though....

Great thread and as usual I can just about learn something new every day here on the Café...

Thanks for all of the info...

Willie

[MikeEdgerton]

It should be noted that lesser mandolins (guitars, etc.) with rhinestones inlaid on them pop up now and again in the vintage market. Apparently it was a thing at one time. I know that many accordions were emblazoned with them as well over the years.

[MikeEdgerton]

This actually almost became my first Loar mandolin in 1976. Larry Sledge lived in Nashville at the time and had it for sale. He ended up keeping it..and I bought the Griffith F5. The rhinestones were always there, so it must be assumed that the original owner H. Torro put them in it

I never knew you had the Griffith F5. That's pretty cool as well.

[Timbofood]

I had a dealer friend, now passed, who walked into the jewelry store I was working at carrying an old “Bella Voce” tenor banjo which had lost a few rhinestones. I spent about half an hour digging through an old box of goods and found the five or six it was missing. I think the owner and I chalked that little repair job up to good karma. It was a really really quiet afternoon that day! I miss Roger!

[f5loar]

I would think since Gibson was doing the rhinestones on the upper end banjos and the F5 was a custom ordered model, those rhinestones were put in at the factory by special order. On the $250 F5, I bet it only cost another $15 to put them in there.

[Mike Snyder]

While it is not a look that appeals to me, it appeared to be done in a professional manner. Very classy and garish at the same time. It was the second Loar that I had been close to and it did not have the sound or mojo of Reischmans.

[BradKlein]

164796

[lenf12]

Interesting nut(s) on that Loar; bone for the G and D courses and ebony for the A and E courses. Looks to be compensated as well. Thanks for posting the pic Brad.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[pops1]

My guess is the bone is loose and not up the the edge of the fingerboard and the strings are holding it on. That much compensation would make it unplayable.