View Full Version : "Session" question
I'll start with the question, and then give the backstory for those who like that kind of thing.
Question: What do you do at a session when you are the weak link, and one or more players don't bother to give you any help (e.g., the chords)? I'm am not remotely skilled enough to pick up on the chords, even if I know the song.
Backstory: As many of you have advised, sessions are a great way for a novice to improve one's skills. I met a young guy at work who plays the banjo (hey, he's still a nice guy) and he invited me to a 'session' he runs, knowing full well that I'm a beginner. Fortunately, the foul Wisconsin weather resulted in a low turnout of just him on banjo, three guitar players (one quite skilled, two average IMHO), and me. They went around and each person picked a song, and they played it; they've been doing this a while so they know the songs. The banjo player took the time to tell me what the chords were, and mercifully started with some pretty simple songs. The skilled guitarist also ran through the chords for me but got into some more complicated, and fast, tunes, but I held on well enough. One of the other guitarists just started playing, which was a problem for me. Some of the time, the banjo player verbally "fed" me the chords during the tune, which was quite helpful and appreciated, but other times I was just left sitting there doing nothing ... Yes, I could have asked that he run the chords by me, but I don't know them and it was my first time, so I didn't ...
They were all nice guys, I had a blast, and they welcomed me back next week, but I'm wondering what to do when I'm left with nothing to go on. And, should it be a bigger group, it might be more of a problem.
The insight of Cafe' members is always appreciated...
Fred Keller
Feb-13-2015, 5:36pm
For my money, make a list of songs played with key. Preferably, record the tunes or portions thereof. Then go back and woodshed as best you can. Over time, you'll pick up their repertoire, gain proficiency, and won't feel so much like the weak link. EVERYONE is or has been the weak link in a session. It's up to you, I feel. Sounds like they've been accommodating and encouraging and want you back. That's a lucky thing--not all jams or jammers are so nice.
Doing nothing is also a perfectly acceptable option at a jam where you are new, don't know the repertoire and don't have the skill to keep up yet. Better that than get in the way. Think of this as a great opportunity: they've shown you (by playing and by some verbal assistance) what you need to do to fully participate. All you need to do is slowly but steadily absorb that and bring it back to them!
Good luck and happy picking.
Tim Griffin
Feb-13-2015, 5:39pm
It is best to listen if you don't know the tune. You are there to add to the music. I record sessions on with my phone then go home and learn the tunes so next time the tune is played I'm ready.
Josh Levine
Feb-13-2015, 5:43pm
If you can do a neutral percussive chop where you are muting the strings that can add an rhythmic element. If you can learn basic guitar chords that will help you out, then you can just watch the solid guitar players. Also, just letting people know that you don't really know what you are doing is helpful.
Since I'm a recovering guitar player, I cheat and watch the guitar player's hands if I don't know the chords. And even if you don't play the guitar, it's worth knowing what their chord shapes look like. If no one will help you out, you can always just stare at their hands.
But honestly, you're going to be lost for a while until you learn the tunes they're playing. Write them down, ask for their common repertoire, and go home to do your homework. Even experienced jammers won't know every tune, and shouldn't be expected to have the chords spoon-fed to them during the jam. You either have to sit that one out until you can go learn it, or just learn to follow along as best you can.
Of course, learning to hear the chords as a I, IV, V, etc., will really help.
They were all nice guys, I had a blast, and they welcomed me back next week,...
Well first of all, sounds like your in. Made the cut, and had fun.
What I would suggest is to learn to read guitar chords off the guitar player. Its not hard. Have one of the guitar players show you a G chord and a D chord, and learn what they look like. Pick up the others as you go. Soon enough you will be able to cheat the chords off the guitar.
Mark Wilson
Feb-13-2015, 5:46pm
If you enjoy the group and what they are playing, go again and make your own list to work on. Doesn't take long to tag along once you know a few songs they tend to play. And you don't have to play on every song. If I'm lost key and song wise I just listen and tap my foot.
The first jam I went to no one called the song key. The guitar players all used capos and even tho I play guitar a little that slowed me down decoding actual key.
For my money, make a list of songs played with key. Preferably, record the tunes or portions thereof. Then go back and woodshed as best you can. Over time, you'll pick up their repertoire, gain proficiency, and won't feel so much like the weak link. EVERYONE is or has been the weak link in a session. It's up to you, I feel. Sounds like they've been accommodating and encouraging and want you back. That's a lucky thing--not all jams or jammers are so nice.
Doing nothing is also a perfectly acceptable option at a jam where you are new, don't know the repertoire and don't have the skill to keep up yet. Better that than get in the way. Think of this as a great opportunity: they've shown you (by playing and by some verbal assistance) what you need to do to fully participate. All you need to do is slowly but steadily absorb that and bring it back to them!
Good luck and happy picking.
Excellent advice. There were very accommodating for the most part, and it is a great opportunity, especially knowing the 'organizer' who assured me I was welcome. There were a couple of moments where the mandolin really contributed, and that felt really really good ... but it felt awkward at other times doing nothing, but as you say, better than holding them back...
(side note: I met the banjo player during his interview for grad school ... I interviewed him and saw "plays banjo" as one of his outside interests ... he's accepted so he owes me???)
That's the best advice actually. Nothing better than knowing what you are doing.
But being able to cheat chords off the guitar player is a useful skill. :)
Well first of all, sounds like your in. Made the cut, and had fun.
What I would suggest is to learn to read guitar chords off the guitar player. Its not hard. Have one of the guitar players show you a G chord and a D chord, and learn what they look like. Pick up the others as you go. Soon enough you will be able to cheat the chords off the guitar.
Hey Jeff... you are right on there ... one of the first things the skilled guitarist asked is if I could 'read' their guitar chords... I do recognize D and C... but I guess I have my homework assignment ...
allenhopkins
Feb-13-2015, 5:58pm
Assume you know the I-IV-V chord progressions in the keys that are generally used (C-F-G7, G-C-D7, etc.). This is going to cover most of the chords that get used in the average session, though not all. The advice above to "read" guitarists' chord positions is excellent, with the slight caveat that you need to also read capo positions as well ––e. g. the guitarist's playing G-position chords with the capo on the second fret, you need to know that you're playing A chords on the mandolin.
The more you do it, the more you'll start internalizing the tunes, and learning to anticipate "where the tune is going" and what chord is likely to come up next. This will work (pretty well) even on tunes you've never heard before. However, it takes decades -- at least for me -- of immersion in particular styles like bluegrass, Celtic "trad," or blues, to get to that feeling of anticipatory comfort.
If it's a good, friendly session where you feel comfortable and welcome, don't be afraid to ask, before a tune starts, "What key?" or even "What chords?". Or, after a tune's over, "What was that third part -- I got messed up after the D7 chord."
We play, on the average, 3.82 million wrong notes over a 30-year span of mandolin playing (yeah, I made that up; sue me). If we worried over each one, we'd bear all the sorrows of the world on our shoulders. On the other hand, I sleep well, eat regularly, maintain a cheery outlook, and fearlessly jump into uncharted tune-al waters, splashing around like a manatee on PCP.
Ain't it fun?
johnmarkva
Feb-13-2015, 6:45pm
I have to vent (mildly folks, not a BIG vent) that I think it is simply rude of some folks to not take the time to at least say what chord the song is in, and if they are being super nice to go over the chord progressions when they know someone new is there. If it is an "open" session than all the players should be helpful to each other. If it is "closed" then do whatever you want.
It is important for a newbie to start doing their homework as well. To wait patiently if they don't know the song, etc... But everyone started somewhere and for certain folks to just jump right in on a song and not be more accommodating is just bad manners imho and seems to happen more than it should. It sounds like the group you are starting out with has potential and the tips given so far are great. It is disappointing though when this happens.
BJ O'Day
Feb-13-2015, 7:20pm
MTM,
I'm in Milwaukee and am trying to get up the nerve to go to a session. I'm hoping to start at the Irish Fest center. They have a beginners session once a month but I haven't been able to make it there yet. What kind of music was your group playing? Is it a regular session or is it a bunch of friends who play together?
BJ
Nashville
Feb-13-2015, 8:40pm
Kudos to you as a beginner to join a jam session! It is never easy at first. Small sessions are best for getting your feet wet because you can ask more questions.
All advice here so far is good. I am a pro player and still I always ask the key of the song before starting. I know the chords that belong to that key, so that is all I need to get started on a song I don't know. If the other guys are nice then they will also tell you the chords or make sure to ask. (depends on the nature of the jam sometimes)
I suggest that you bring a recorder of some kind, say the name of the song and the key, then record the song. Or again ask the guys before the song starts so they will speak it aloud and get it recorded. Take it home for wood shedding to be ready for next jam.
Maybe you are just playing chords and not taking a melody break since the song is new to you. If you are just playing chords then you don't need to play every chord. If I am not sure of a chord, then I just mute the strings with my left hand and chop a little rhythmic strum. Even if you muted every chord through the entire song it is okay, as long as you are adding some rhythm. You can get more of the chords next time.
In a professional setting a lot of times all I get is the key and then the song kicks off and it's "meet you at the end!". So if the song is in key of G, then in most music styles the chords will probably be a G, C & D. Cool, I know those chords. Key of G might also have an Em. Fine, I know that chord too and can hear the sound of it, so I'll play an Em. Well, maybe there's an Am in there also. If I don't catch it the first time around then hopefully I'll catch it on the next verse or chorus. Maybe the song will end before I got it right, so I'll just chuck-a-chuck on my muted strings on the 'unknown' chord. Whew! Made it to the end of the song and I almost got it. Cool. What a rush!
Assume you know the I-IV-V chord progressions in the keys that are generally used (C-F-G7, G-C-D7, etc.). This is going to cover most of the chords that get used in the average session, though not all. The advice above to "read" guitarists' chord positions is excellent, with the slight caveat that you need to also read capo positions as well ––e. g. the guitarist's playing G-position chords with the capo on the second fret, you need to know that you're playing A chords on the mandolin.
The more you do it, the more you'll start internalizing the tunes, and learning to anticipate "where the tune is going" and what chord is likely to come up next. This will work (pretty well) even on tunes you've never heard before. However, it takes decades -- at least for me -- of immersion in particular styles like bluegrass, Celtic "trad," or blues, to get to that feeling of anticipatory comfort.
If it's a good, friendly session where you feel comfortable and welcome, don't be afraid to ask, before a tune starts, "What key?" or even "What chords?". Or, after a tune's over, "What was that third part -- I got messed up after the D7 chord."
We play, on the average, 3.82 million wrong notes over a 30-year span of mandolin playing (yeah, I made that up; sue me). If we worried over each one, we'd bear all the sorrows of the world on our shoulders. On the other hand, I sleep well, eat regularly, maintain a cheery outlook, and fearlessly jump into uncharted tune-al waters, splashing around like a manatee on PCP.
Ain't it fun?
First off... thanks Allen. I've been around the Cafe for a couple of years now, and I've found every one of your posts to be exceptionally well thought out and helpful. Just like I've found every post by "Old Sausage" to be amusing ... I'm a tad disappointed that he hasn't chimed in with some wit... but there's still time. But, we digress...
My playing status: I'm 2.5 yrs in and most of the way through the "intermediate" section of the instruction book "Mandolin" by Horne and Fugage, and I play/practice religiously about 2 hrs a day. I took a few lessons but didn't get much out of them. I did the Mike Marshall online course for 3 months but the format doesn't work with my mandolin time schedule (very slow!). So, I have some knowledge but struggle with the "skill" thing.
The "capo" thing did come up the other night, and the banjo player also sat that one out and whispered "they always get me with that." It is a friendly group, and I was introduced as a 'first timer', so I they helped a lot but the one guy did not...
I realize the onus is on me, and I'll bring a notebook this week and start tracking the tunes, and do the "woodshed" thing during the week. I've purposefully avoided the iPhone/smartphone thing for idealogical reasons but the "record" option (and my wife) are wearing me down ...
great advice...thanks...
MTM,
I'm in Milwaukee and am trying to get up the nerve to go to a session. I'm hoping to start at the Irish Fest center. They have a beginners session once a month but I haven't been able to make it there yet. What kind of music was your group playing? Is it a regular session or is it a bunch of friends who play together?
BJ
Hey BJO ... send me a private email ... I'll give you the details on the session I went to... they play all styles. And you can tell me about the IrishFest Center lessons ... I'm a major IrishFest fan. And Cafe? You should come to Milwaukee's Irish Fest... astounding festival....
[QUOTE=Nashville;1373716]Kudos to you as a beginner to join a jam session! It is never easy at first. Small sessions are best for getting your feet wet because you can ask more questions......[edit for space reasons]...
Maybe you are just playing chords and NOT (my emphasis) taking a melody break ...
...oh my goodness.... a break? A SOLO??? eehhhhhh, no....
Still, thanks for the advice and encouragement ... much appreciated...
Hey enjoy the journey. I have found it takes about a decade to sound like you been playing ten years.
Gandalfa
Feb-13-2015, 10:50pm
I participate in a small informal jam, usually 4-8 players. I take my guitar and my mandolin. Sometimes I play the guitar chords. Sometime I play mandolin, but I usually don't do chords. I 'm about six months into the mando, and chords are a real weakness for me. I do a lot of harmonizing with tremolo during the singing--which takes enough concentration that I can't sing with the group, but my voice is lousy anyway. When I'm doing this I pay attention to the chords and the key, and use that to find the notes. It helps that I can read the chords from the guitar players hands. I keep getting better, and I think this is helping me hear the music and undertones. I often play quietly, then take a turn on lead during the break. The group seems to think this is fine, and listeners have commented on how the mandolin contrasts nicely with all the guitars. I know that might not work for everyone, especially if the group is set in its ways, but it works for us.
stevedenver
Feb-14-2015, 9:50am
listen, and do as much or as little as you like, when you feel like it. relax-it helps your brain process stuff.
first, you gotta know your chords, movable, and where things are. you should, at least, imho, know the keys of g, c, d, a, e, b-these are common-you should know the I-IV-V and eventually, the II minor and VIm in each key-not hard, simply take one key, and learn these positions, then move them for another key. Learn one key at a time, this well give you a strong mental anchor -start with the key of G. Then the key of A.
second, I found it wonderfully liberating to BE the newbie, unabashedly, ask questions, tell them you haven't done this before, ask for the changes ahead of time.
Third, IMHO it is really important to sing songs at home, chording, do this every day, a little at least. This will help you to hear/feel the changes in the melody. Soon it will be second nature. Chose 4 with no more than 3-4 chords. (4 songs at most to start so you really really know them cold, even in a panic) and work them to death, memorize the lyrics, then you can sing. Suddenly your in the driver's seat and contributing to the jam.
you don't have to take a break until you want to, it no big deal to pass.
The single most important thing you can do is show up and try your best.
Timbofood
Feb-14-2015, 11:00am
It will get easier, the better understanding of the chords will make things easier, that comes with time. Don't worry about it too much, what I do in a situation when I need to find a break is turn away from the group and sort something out. I had an out of town guy over the other night and he kicked off a tune that I had no clue about, I turned away and figured out a break and when we finished he looked at me and said: "The guy who wrote the song never worked out a mandolin break!" So, it may or may not come to you in the pinch but, given time you'll get it. Just keep having fun!
allenhopkins
Feb-14-2015, 11:35am
mtm, if you've been playing mandolin for two and a half years, playing regularly two hours a day, you should have all the "chops" needed to participate in a pretty advanced jam.
What may need developing is the "group thing"; playing alone doesn't give you the "ear training," interactive experience, and exposure to others' styles, attitudes, and repertoire that will make your participation easier. But as you continue (we hope) to participate, these skills should come without too much delay.
Participating musically in groups is only partially about "chops." Most novice jammers are worried whether they can play as well as the others; the real question is, how well can they play with others? And the only way to get better at that aspect, is to do it -- letting the chips fall where they may, until it becomes comfortable.
mtm, if you've been playing mandolin for two and a half years, playing regularly two hours a day, you should have all the "chops" needed to participate in a pretty advanced jam.
....
I SHOULD have the chops, Alan .... "should" .... that may or may not be true !!!
I took everyone's advice and got a list of core tunes, but only got the list yesterday. I tried to learn a couple and I'm off to my second session in an hour. "Should" be interesting and / or fun ....
Timbofood
Feb-17-2015, 6:44pm
You will be fine! Don't let the pressure get to you.,next time you're in the Kalamazoo area, let me know, I will see if I can set up some low stress fun!
Josh Levine
Feb-17-2015, 8:01pm
Also i enjoy the Pete wernick jamming DVDs for pretend jamming
mbruno
Feb-17-2015, 8:47pm
Lots of great advice here.
I remember when I was at my first bluegrass festival (Greyfox 2005). I just got my first mandolin, a Rouge, the Christmas before and had played it nearly daily for about 7 months. I thought I was pretty decent by then (also I have a good background with guitar and bass, so that helped). I very clearly remember being pushed out of a few jams (especially at the Grill Billies tent) because I just didn't know the tune or how to fake it well enough.
That whole year I spent learning as much as I could which was difficult since I was the bassist in a rock band primarily (none of my friends played acoustic music really). But I went back in 2006 and wasn't asked to leave as much. This was a common theme for a few years.
Last year I think was one of my favorites. Aside from the great time / performers, after the main stage was done, I was leading a good amount of the late night jams at that same jam I got kicked out of in 2005. I had a good group of musicians following the tunes I was calling and people complimented me on my playing.
The only difference between the first jam and the last - methodical practice, reaching out to better musicians to find out what they are doing and get tips, learning as many popular tunes as possible in as many keys as possible (especially in B and Bb - those are often the "let's kick this guy out by playing in a hard key" songs), and fill my bag of tricks with riffs / phrases for common chord changes. That was 10 years of working - but even after the first year, I knew I was better than before. Consistent jamming in public with people you know and people you don't know is vital to learning IMO. If a tune is "too hard", you have to challenge yourself and learn it.
David L
Feb-18-2015, 10:26am
This is a good place to mention the book "Play Well with Others" by Martha Haehl. It has information about all aspects of jamming, from music theory to jam etiquette.
Beanzy
Feb-18-2015, 10:42am
No harm in having something like the Pegram Jam chord book under your seat as a handy crib sheet. Just don't spend the whole time looking at it; A quick look up to put you in the ballpark then remember them as best you can during the song (otherwise they don't stick so well and you don't listen properly).
http://pegramjam.com/
JeffD
Feb-18-2015, 10:58am
While a lot of folks go all chords first, I am a melody first kind of guy. Well not exactly, but most tunes most of the time I have the melody good enough under my fingers long before I have figured out the chords. (And I have not found that knowing the chords helps all that much in learning the melody. It helps a bit, but I have some other kind of motor in me that runs on panic and caffeine, and it figures out the melody based on desperately needing to figure out the melody.)
Everyone is different.
JeffD
Feb-18-2015, 11:04am
Last year I think was one of my favorites. Aside from the great time / performers, after the main stage was done, I was leading a good amount of the late night jams at that same jam I got kicked out of in 2005. I had a good group of musicians following the tunes I was calling and people complimented me on my playing. .
You done good.
Completing the cycle would be when you help some struggling newbie make it into your jam.
It sucks that you got kicked out - I have often experienced not being up to snuff for the jam I wandered into, but I have never been asked to leave. No question you will do better than was done to you.
... Bruno .... kicked out of a session? Now that's pretty harsh !!!!
An update on Session #2:
I have to say, this group is quite friendly and a lot of fun. They welcomed me back by name, which was nice.
So, the second session was quite a bit different than last week. First, there were two additional guitar players to bring the number to 5 guitars, banjo, and me (and one guitarist switched to a piano at times). A girl friend sang a couple of blues songs, and she was pretty good. It was pretty loud at times, with several guys playing and singing, and I had some difficulty hearing myself. I thought my Eastman had reasonably good volume, but I guess I'll have to look into a Loar Gibson soon ... :))
Also, there were quite a few people in the bar this week, and they clapped and sang along at times, which was fun. And, one of the guys brought a bag of "shakables" ... tambourine, shakers, etc, and people had some fun with them. There was a bit of a party atmosphere that was definitely not there last week (at times, to the point of distraction).
Like last week, two of them were kind enough to give me the key and the chords, but it appears that this isn't their general "style" since the others just launched in and expected the rest to 'be there'. This resulted in one or two people sitting out quite a few songs, so I didn't feel as conspicuous as last week. As suggested by several of you, I did speak up and asked for the key, at least, and they obliged for the most part. At one humorous juncture, my friend told me the chords, to which one guy said "why are you getting the white glove treatment? They didn't tell me the chords for two years!!" (potential answer: the kid will be a grad student next year, and I'll be his professor?).
And lastly, as suggested, I tried to learn a few of the core tunes. They always start with "Star of the County Down" and end with ... wait for it ... "Wagon Wheel". I worked on "Star" a bit before the session but when they went into it, I forgot everything and basically faked it. There was one tune (can't even remember what it was) that was simple and I was able to do a some double stop progressions that sounded pretty good to my ear and cut through the guitars, so I was pleased with that. And, Wagon Wheel is pretty accessible to end the evening on.
So, I think I can call myself a regular now, and I appreciate all the Cafe' member tips that will make it enjoyable and help in my playing ...
Gelsenbury
Feb-18-2015, 4:26pm
That sounds like good and pleasant progress. Star of the County Down is a nice song to learn, and definitely worth doing.
Like others here, I recommend learning some ways to work out the key of what's being played. Experts can do this by ear, I'm not there yet. Some can follow the guitarist's fingers. Since I don't play guitar, I look for a four-string banjo, which has the same tuning as me. And there's always the option of quietly trying out root notes or checking whether C# and F# fit.
Enjoy the next one!
stevedenver
Feb-18-2015, 4:44pm
good news!
white glove treatment my arse.........hes just jealous he didn't have the thought process to ask.....;)
mbruno
Feb-18-2015, 7:36pm
You done good.
Completing the cycle would be when you help some struggling newbie make it into your jam.
It sucks that you got kicked out - I have often experienced not being up to snuff for the jam I wandered into, but I have never been asked to leave. No question you will do better than was done to you.
Yeah, it's a great feeling. I am a music teacher and if anyone ever asks any musical question that I think I can answer, I'll do my best to help. I usually end up teaching a few improtu classes with some of my festival neighbors at Greyfox... Last year I actually ran into a mother of a kid I taught a few things to the year before. He ended up getting such a kick out of mandolin from that lesson, he's now got two and a full time mandolin teacher (plus me as his "greyfox teacher")
To be honest, I hold no grudges about being asked to leave jams in my younger days. Most of it was done subtly (i.e. playing a slew of tunes in Bb, then switching to "standard" keys when I left or similar). To be honest, I didn't understand the bluegrass way of jamming (i.e. go in a circle in a big jam, only one break if that, don't get busy during the vocal lines, don't call jam-busters all the time etc) and I was probably the rude one. My friend and festival mama Lisa Husted schooled me there pretty quick - I've learned.
Ok, third "session" completed and I have a new question that I thought I'd ask here, rather than make a new thread...
Of course, the capos come out fairly regularly, and while it will take time for me to transpose on the fly, the "capo" thing is what it is (wouldn't you know it... I practiced "Norwegian Wood" in D and they played it capo ... drats). But I've been asked if I have a capo ... I'm not sure I recall ever seeing an individual use a capo on a mandolin although my quick "google" shows that it isn't too unusual.
So, given my limited skills and increasing comfort in sitting out the tunes I don't know, do I want to go down the capo road?
Session three notes:
It was an even bigger group last night ... 7 guitars, banjo, and me. One guitar was a resonator, which was nice. The latest two guitar additions included a guy who was quite skilled, and a gal who played well and sang quite nicely. And again, at times it was so loud I had difficulty hearing myself. My impression is that 9 is getting to be a bit too large ... it wasn't unusual for half the players to sit out a tune due to being unfamiliar or not up to it technically (the one guy was playing some challenging stuff, IMHO). A few went over the chords for me, which was quite helpful, but I've come to NOT expect it in this group. So, I'll continue to go, but I'm hoping for a more intimate group.
Oh boy, another capo discussion! Drama to ensue...
Seriously, that ground has been covered many times on this forum, and virtually always ends with disagreement. But if one were to take away anything from past discussions, it would be: use one if you want, but others may frown on it. Mandolinists are generally expected to be able to play in any key due to the small size and tuning of our instruments. It's much easier to adapt different chord shapes or play in closed positions for mandolinists than it is for guitar players or banjo players. And capos can just be downright awkward on a small instrument like this. But some players do use them. Generally for achieving a specific sound like ringing open notes in an odd key, rather than just as a general tool for changing keys.
But it really comes down to what you want to do. Most mandolin players avoid using a capo, but there's no rule that says you can't.
I do agree with you on the size of the group. I find at my local jam that once we get above 6 players or so, it starts to get too loud and it's more difficult to keep things together.
Thanks Tobin ... I did see some extended capo discussion, but thought I'd cut to the chase. Personally, a capo seems like a distraction that I don't need at this stage .. but, just wondering ...
farmerjones
Feb-25-2015, 3:15pm
It's a real kick to read this thread!
Many a jammer has walked in them there shoes. :)
Now, I take quiet pride in being able to catch most keys and/or chords unassisted.
Because you can't throw yourself a curveball. As an exercise, I've sat and listened to Sirius Bluegrass, and tried to find the key and some of the chords before the song ends. Sometimes you can play along, sometimes you may only be able to get a lick or two before the tune ends. It also give you a flavor of really how fast a tune can be played.
~o)
Mandobart
Feb-25-2015, 4:53pm
I've been playing mandolin for almost 7 years; guitar and fiddle for many years longer. I've been going to local jams and festivals for about 6 years now. It is usually expected in a circle jam that on your turn you name the tune and the key, and the rhythm (waltz, jig, etc.). Then you may or may not run thru the chords for others. At our bluegrass and old time jams we play the old standards that most everyone knows. At our folk jams I'll often spring some tunes the others have never heard, so I pull out the guitar to make it easier to follow for others and run through the chords for everyone. I usually slow the tempo down too.
If a person is a beginner and has trouble, its ok. We've all been beginners too. We have some terminal "rhythmless" jammers as well, who just make a mess of every song they try to lead because they have no rhythm and can't follow those that do. They are ok too, because they try and are humble. The only ones that get the less than welcome treatment at our jams are those that show up so under the influence of a substance they are nearly incoherent (it happens) or those that try to monopolize, put others down, or refuse to follow some simple etiquette:
1. If you show up during a song, don't make a bunch of noise setting up, tuning up, etc.
2. TUNE your instrument
3. Be respectful of others; no noodling around between songs, no playing out of turn, no playing a lead loudly over someone else's lead or vocals.
4. Once the song starts, it belongs to the group. No stopping so you can start over or if you get lost. Let everyone that wants to take a break. Signal the end a couple bars ahead (raised foot is the most common cue).
5. Pay attention. It is pretty irritating when you give the name, key and rhythm of a tune, explain the chords, then start to play just to have the half baked bass player stop everything with a "whoa what key is this in? What are the chords?"
thanks for the perspective ... it's a fun bunch of people and they have welcomed me ...
Tips 1-5 are good and the group is generally conscientious, although things broke down a bit at points when half the people were sitting out; there was chatter and noodling that even I found intrusive when just listening. I show up wayyyyy early to ply the earlybirds for what they might potentially play. They appreciate that I'm trying....
... I've not "picked a tune" yet and just pass on to the next person, but I was jokingly told that I'll be expected to lead one in the near future. This could be a problem as a) I don't sing well, b) I don't play well, and c) singing AND playing is even more difficult than singing OR playing. It should be interesting and / or embarrassing ... It will have to be simple but I'd like something on which the banjo player can do a meaningful break, given the over-representation of guitars ... stay tuned.
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with a lot of what would be called 'standards', but I'm taking down 'set lists' and visiting the songs online, but no way I can learn, let alone master, 6 or more songs a week whether I know them or not. And, I learn one and they "capo me" !!!!
We've been treated to shots of Jameson by the bartender the last three weeks ... while I'm generally not a shot drinker during the week or otherwise, when in rome... When I asked one of the guys if this was a tradition, he said, "no, the first time he gave us shots was when you came... so keep coming !!!"
Hmmmm, maybe that's why I'm welcomed????