First Mandolin - Almost Overwhelmed by Choices [Archive]

bengoshi2000

Feb-09-2015, 12:43pm

Greetings all,
My apologies for being dramatic with the title. But I've read so much about mandolins over the last week or so, that I'm getting a headache.

Short story long... Many years ago I got into Irish Traditional Music (ITM) and purchased an entry level set of Uilleann Pipes. I actually got to the place I could fart out a few tunes, but then I had kids (3 of them). The pipes have now been sitting in their case for 7 years untouched.

First Born child is now 12 and has taken up guitar. He's good... not just good, but very good. Watching him has inspired me to get back into playing. I still have a deep love of ITM, so I've decided that a mandolin is what I'd like to learn. Lots of the ITM tunes I wanted to learn on pipes translate well to the mandolin. I'd also like to play with our Church's Praise Band (where guitars are ubiquitous). I doubt I'll play bluegrass to any serious degree.

So I'm looking for a nice mandolin to begin on. Probably an A style since one can get much more bang for the buck.

My budget is $750 to $1000. The more below the Grand mark that I get means that I won't have to grovel quite so much to my bride (aka, the "SAC").

I've liked the idea of electrics, but I want something that has a good tone for ITM. I'll burn the "live performance" bridge at a later date.

What I've seen (cosmetically) that I like is the JBovier A5 Special in Black.

I know that these "what should I get" threads are a dime a dozen. I don't know how to play any stringed instrument (nor do I know any Mandolin players) so I'm at the mercy of others opinions. I just know that starting out on a near POS (of any instrument) will lead to frustration, heartache and walking away from the rewards of learning an instrument.

So what say y'all?

Peace,
Bengoshi2k
Piedmont, NC USA

Mark Wilson

Feb-09-2015, 12:48pm

new or used?

pheffernan

Feb-09-2015, 12:50pm

bengoshi2000

Feb-09-2015, 1:37pm

new or used?

Either. If the right mando is a used one, I'll get it!

Jackgaryk

Feb-09-2015, 1:58pm

I think you should let your "first born" choose your mandolin. I betcha he will need one of his own very soon anyway. this mandolin stuff is contagious.

Martin Jonas

Feb-09-2015, 4:22pm

If you're interested in ITM with no plans for bluegrass, I'd look for a mandolin with an oval hole. With a little patience, you could probably find a teens Gibson A in your price range or a domestic flattop (Big Muddy/Mid-Missouri, Redline, Gypsy, Flatiron, Weber, etc.) for considerably less.

What he said.

Big Muddy or Mid-Missouri (the older name for the same mandolin) would suit your profile to a T, and with money spare. I'm not sure I've ever met anybody who heard or played them and didn't like them. Teens Gibson A, or 20s Ajr, will have some more vintage mojo and also in your budget, but with less money to spare and with the risk that comes with vintage instruments.

I haven't played the other US-made flattops, but would think they're more or less similar to the Big Muddy.

Martin

Mandoplumb

Feb-09-2015, 4:30pm

Any one starting on mandolin today is lucky to be starting at a time when it's difficult to decide on which instrument is "good" as compared to "great" for the money. When I was starting there were a very few vintage mandolins available none of which we could afford. The choice we had was which was the "best" POS.

bengoshi2000

Feb-09-2015, 4:53pm

I think you should let your "first born" choose your mandolin. I betcha he will need one of his own very soon anyway. this mandolin stuff is contagious.

Hey, he's just barely learned the art of overdrive distortion. I'm hoping his rig will prevent G.A.S. until he gets a job!

I'm probably going to shy away from vintage/antique instruments at this time (as I'm a learner/newb and I need to learn the basics of playing and care first). Used instruments from the last quarter century are definitely viable options.

On our local Craigslist there is a Mid-Mo m2 and a Crystal Forest Army/Navy. Any differences/similarities between the two I should be aware of?

Did I mention the JBovier A5 Special in black? Does he make any O hole instruments? I just find the black w/ivory binding sexy looking instrument. Aside from my ITM interests, are these good mandolins?

All of your replies are appreciated! Keep 'em coming!

Eric F.

Feb-09-2015, 5:02pm

Caleb

Feb-09-2015, 5:18pm

You're getting good advice, but I do wonder why people automatically recommend flattops and other oval holes for ITM. So let me muddy the waters for you a bit: A mandolin with f holes will cut through the din of a session better.Agreed. I love ovals but find a the carved-top FF mandolins more versatile than anything else.

Breedlove A-styles can often be found for under 1000. And you've also got access to the entire Eastman and Kentucky line of A-styles for that price, as well as JBovier which get great reviews here. Those are all good mandolins that would work well in Irish or Praise Band settings.

Good luck with your search.

Rob Zamites

Feb-09-2015, 5:24pm

But f-holed instruments are butt ugly. I'd get the Mid-Mo in a heartbeat.

:whistling:

*stirring up the pot*

pheffernan

Feb-09-2015, 5:36pm

On our local Craigslist there is a Mid-Mo m2 and a Crystal Forest Army/Navy. Any differences/similarities between the two I should be aware of?

They'll have different body styles, as the Crystal Forest will be more of a pancake shape. An M2 should be spruce over maple, but the Crystal Forest is undetermined. I'd try both. Heck, I'd buy both, give them an extended trial, and keep the winner.

You're getting good advice, but I do wonder why people automatically recommend flattops and other oval holes for ITM. So let me muddy the waters for you a bit: A mandolin with f holes will cut through the din of a session better.

I don't think it's automatic for ITM. But if the player is not interested in bluegrass and operating on a budget, flattops offer a lot of instrument for the money.

DWM

Feb-09-2015, 8:16pm

Eastman MD604 (oval) or MD605 (ff) both come with Schertler pickups installed and fit the price level you've given. I'd pick the 604 for ITM, and it has plenty of volume for an oval. At least mine does.

Don

shins

Feb-10-2015, 3:27pm

Eastman 305

Eric F.

Feb-10-2015, 3:33pm

When I started playing mandolin, you couldn't get (or at least I couldn't find) anything decent for less than a grand other than a Mid-Missouri, so that was my first real mandolin. I loved it, I love my Flatiron pancake and I've recommended flattops as bargains many times. But today the quality choices in this price range are astounding. There's no reason anymore to automatically recommend a flattop when a similar amount of money can buy a used Breedlove or Kentucky KM-900. Heck, even the KM-505s I've played sounded terrific.

I agree with Caleb that an f-hole, A-style mandolin is the most versatile/best bang for your buck and in this price range the options he listed can all be fine instruments. Another maker people here love - but I have no experience with - is Howard Morris, who makes arched- and flat-top instruments in the OP's price range.

Honestly, I prefer the sound of ovals to all but the finest f-hole mandolins. In addition to the Flatiron I own three high-quality ovals. Still, if you invited me to a session, I'd probably show up with my A-5, which would cut through the tenor banjo, pipes, flute, whistle and what-all else better.

It's all a matter of individual taste, and we're lucky to have so many choices it's overwhelming. I doubt the OP would be unhappy with any of the options we've thrown out there. My advice is to get a mandolin and start playing.

Mike Arakelian

Feb-10-2015, 5:52pm

If you're in the NC Piedmont area, you might check out Harry's Guitar Shop in Raleigh (NFI). He carries Breedlove, The Loar, Weber and occasionally something like a Rigel. Getting your hands on a couple of different instruments will give you a better idea of sound, playability, feel, etc. Good luck.

Oops, almost forgot...he also carries Eastman.

Cecily_Mandoliner

Feb-10-2015, 6:19pm

Did I mention the JBovier A5 Special in black? Does he make any O hole instruments? I just find the black w/ivory binding sexy looking instrument. Aside from my ITM interests, are these good mandolins?

I have the JBovier A5 Tradition. I just love it. It has a nice volume, a nice tone and I love the radiused fingerboard. The A5 Special has the pretty flaming maple on the sides and back, while the A5 Tradition is not so fancy on the sides and back and has a sunburst top.
When I played them, both A5 T and A5 S sounded equally nice.
I even did a blind test, where my dear hubby placed a mando in my hands while my eyes were closed, I played and then he switched mid-song. I picked the Tradition because I was drawn to it, but I could easily have purchased the other and been just has content.
The JBovier's get some nice reviews on the Cafe, and that helped me chose that maker over others.
Just my opinion, no affiliation.
Have fun!
:mandosmiley:

Stephen Perry

Feb-10-2015, 10:22pm

MD404 Eastman blacktop might be excellent - I just got one in and it is so pretty and sounds great! I'd use it in a heartbeat in ITM.

bengoshi2000

Feb-12-2015, 6:43am

MD404 Eastman blacktop might be excellent - I just got one in and it is so pretty and sounds great! I'd use it in a heartbeat in ITM.

SP,
Do you mind posting a few pics?

JeffD

Feb-12-2015, 10:41am

The choice of arch top or flat top and oval holes versus f holes is likely a personal decision. The point, I think, is that if bluegrass is not the main interest, then you have some more latitude with styles. Not so much that the flatty or the oval hole are more appropriate for ITM, as much as with bluegrass set aside, a flatty can be a very effective choice.

Cutting through the din at a session is a good criteria. I think that most of the choices will get you heard, sufficiently.

I know for me, early on, being heard especially well in a jam session was not what I wanted. I wasn't confident enough for that! :)

I think mandolins like the Fylde Touchstone have a sound particularly suited to ITM. More so than an F5.

But you know, we are talking small differences. The difference between having and not having a mandolin is much much bigger than the particulars of which mandolin you get. Nothing is going to be so wrong that it is inappropriate, and nothing is going to be so right that you won't be buying another mandolin at some point anyway.

KevinM

Feb-13-2015, 8:46am

I would not be afraid of buying used on the Café classifieds, and it is a key way to get the most bang for your buck. The benefit being that if you decide to trade up there is a reasonable chance to you can recover your investment, not so with new.

Eric F.

Feb-13-2015, 10:10am

But you know, we are talking small differences. The difference between having and not having a mandolin is much much bigger than the particulars of which mandolin you get. Nothing is going to be so wrong that it is inappropriate, and nothing is going to be so right that you won't be buying another mandolin at some point anyway.

Yup!

bengoshi2000

Feb-13-2015, 2:42pm

The difference between having and not having a mandolin is much much bigger than the particulars of which mandolin you get. Nothing is going to be so wrong that it is inappropriate, and nothing is going to be so right that you won't be buying another mandolin at some point anyway.

^^ This... very helpful!

I'm at the point where I'm leaning strongly towards a JBovier A5 Tradition (or Special, depending on $ at the time I pull the trigger), should I opt for a new instrument.

I've been combing the classifieds here too. I haven't contacted any sellers as I've yet to sell my Uilleann Pipes (as those proceeds will fund the mandolin purchase).

I do appreciate the friendly, welcoming advice here. I'm looking forward to becoming a playing member of this community.

Peace,
Ben2k

bengoshi2000

Feb-16-2015, 9:33am

Well, my financial priorities have changed a bit. I don't want to sell off the entirety of my Uilleann pipes, so I'm looking at used instruments below $600. Here's what I've found locally on CL and elsewhere:

Kentucky KM171 - $300 (+shipping) in the classified section
The Loar LM300 - $325
Kentucky KM380 - $400 (includes case)
Eastman MD504 - $525 (includes case)
Gold Tone GM110 - $550 (includes gig bag) from emando.com

I've read very little about the GM110, but now it's the only instrument with a pickup I've found in my price range.

The only complicating factor about used instruments from a private party is that the setup could be in question. (Not sure about the emando GM110... does emando do a setup on their instruments? It's not clear on their website.) Truly, though, I think with proper guidance I could set up a mandolin that didn't need fret adjustment/dressing or truss rod adjustment).

Again, your input has been (and will be) very helpful!
Peace,
Ben2k

pheffernan

Feb-16-2015, 9:53am

Well, my financial priorities have changed a bit. I don't want to sell off the entirety of my Uilleann pipes, so I'm looking at used instruments below $600.

The Huntsville, Alabama, Guitar Center has a Big Muddy MW-0 in five star condition for $499.99. If you click on this link http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm and type muddy as the keyword, it will come right up as the only response. And while Guitar Center is often overlooked, it's a great option for people whose financial priorities have changed a bit. They'll usually ship any instrument to your local store for like $12, give you a 30 day approval period on nonvintage items, and often offer long financing options of 12-18 months with zero percent interest.

bengoshi2000

Feb-16-2015, 12:31pm

My local CL has a MidMo M2 for $500. I had backed away from the MMs as they don't have an adjustable bridge. Should that be a deal breaker?

pheffernan

Feb-16-2015, 12:35pm

My local CL has a MidMo M2 for $500. I had backed away from the MMs as they don't have an adjustable bridge. Should that be a deal breaker?

No. MidMos often come with multiple fixed bridges should they need to be adjusted, although mine never did. And Mike Dulak is so strong on customer service that he has been known to send multiple bridges to second owners from whom he has never made a dime. How much was the Crystal Forest?

pheffernan

Feb-16-2015, 12:44pm

Found the listings in Raleigh:
Crystal Forest http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/4867439619.html
Mid-Missouri http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/4820048053.html

bengoshi2000

Feb-16-2015, 12:54pm

pheffernan

Feb-16-2015, 1:06pm

Ok. You've got me thinking hard about that MidMo. Would that be the pick o the litter with regard to the options I listed a couple of posts back? (Assuming instruments are set up well and physical conditions were similar)

For me, I would rather own the MiDMo or the Crystal Forest than the other listed options. I think that flattops are a fantastic starter instrument for the nongrasser on a budget. They are great mandolins to learn on, and their voice is different enough that you could rationalize keeping it as a second or travel mandolin when you inevitably add another. I would suggest that you try both and buy the one that pleases you most. If it were me, I'd buy both, keep my favorite and eventually sell the other at little to no loss.

Mark Wilson

Feb-16-2015, 1:32pm

Ok. You've got me thinking hard about that MidMo. Would that be the pick o the litter with regard to the options I listed a couple of posts back? (Assuming instruments are set up well and physical conditions were similar)It would be to me. I almost drove to look at that one in Raleigh (just too far) a week or so ago. I ended up getting a flattop off ebay and I think it has an edge in that price range. Wish it had been my first mandolin!

Eric F.

Feb-16-2015, 10:05pm

It is hard to beat a Mid-Mo in that price range. It's a quality instrument, built by one person (who is a hoot, by the way) and it can be a lifetime keeper.

zedmando

Feb-17-2015, 1:58am

I can relate to the overwhelming part of this.
I had several mandos I was keeping an eye open for, and I was planning on renting first, but then I got a greta deal on a used mando--and renting wasn't the plan anymore--but I could see doing that if I ever try a different kind of mandolin.

I've had that with guitars as well--but the best way to get around it is to play as many mandos as possible.

mrmando

Feb-27-2015, 3:16am

The only complicating factor about used instruments from a private party is that the setup could be in question. (Not sure about the emando GM110... does emando do a setup on their instruments? It's not clear on their website.)
Well, I usually check them out and if they need simple stuff, like new strings, bridge height adjusted, intonation set, etc., I'll do it myself -- and if something is more seriously wrong I'll have a luthier friend work on it.

That GM110 is in pretty good shape except for some pitting on the tuners and tailpiece, but it has been sold. I keep an eye out for those and get them in when I can.

bengoshi2000

Feb-27-2015, 3:50pm

Well, this morning I ordered an A5 Tradition "black top" from Jeff at JBovier. I had looked into several mandolins off of my local CL and one here at the classifieds. I either received no response, or was a "day late and a dollar short."

I'm convinced this adventure will be fun and I look forward to embedding myself further into this most excellent community!

Peace,
Ben2k

fatt-dad

Feb-27-2015, 5:23pm

too late to this party. I just want to add my thoughts. . . I think an a-style, f-hole mandolin (i.e., what you bought) is a versatile mandolin. Bluegrass, ITM, classical, etc. can all be found on those strings. Don't like a particular aspect of the sound? Try a string change or a different pick.

Echoing the flat-top camp, I love them too. My flattop (Flatiron 1N) has a very prominent voice - even on light-gauge strings. The sound is a bit fundamental, but I'm fine with that. In the realm of mandolins, you really need both - ha!

Enjoy your new mandolin. I've learned in recent months, the tune, "King of the Pipers." You know that tune? I really enjoy playing that 5-part jig!

f-d

bengoshi2000

Feb-28-2015, 8:10am

Enjoy your new mandolin. I've learned in recent months, the tune, "King of the Pipers." You know that tune? I really enjoy playing that 5-part jig!

f-d

'Tis a fun jig. I think there is a YouTube vid of Liam O'Flynn playing it.

I learned a couple of jigs on the uilleann pipes (Sean Bui and the Kesh Jig). I'm a big fan of Paddy Keenan/Bothy Band. I'm looking forward to getting back into playing ITM!