Modifed X bracing vs Tone Bars

[Wesley]

This question has been asked before I'm sure but I haven't been able to find the answer - so please indulge me.

All things being equal - same builder and grades of material - what tonal differences should I expect from an instrument { 17 inch scale mandola } made with modified X bracing vs tone bars ?

I think I've heard that tone bars will offer more of a "bark" and the modified X braces have a little more sustain - a sweeter sound. Am I on the right track ?

Any notible volume differences between the two?

Thanks for your imput in advance.

[Tim]

Check out this compliation of answers to the question at FOTW (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2168.htm).

[Big Joe]

From my experience the tone bars give a more "loarish" tone. It does give a different timbre to the tone from the x braces. The size and shape of the tone bars will make a differnce in the tone so it is hard to give an exact explanation of the tone. I can say it is reasonably easy to tell the tone bars from the x brace. The x braced also is affected by the way the x brace is formed and how they intersect as well as the lenth and size and shape of the braces. Another important issue on x bracing is where they intersect in relation to the bridge. Many will cross up to an inch in front of the bridge. The one I just finished with is right under the bridge. On many the braces are at about a 90 angle to one another. This gives a more boomy and bassy bottom end. The sound has a tendency to get muddy when played hard or when it gets a little age on it. Many have had to be retopped. With the x's moved in we can avoid the boominess without giving up volume, balance, or tone. It is more balanced like a tone bar mandolin but retains the unique x braced sound. I hope this explanation helps some.

[SternART]

Wesley,
Lawrence Smart builds incredible X braced dolas........Mike Marshall plays one, as does John Reischmann (listen to John's on "Travelers" the trio CD with Baldassari & Bullock) I have an X braced Gilchrist classical that is very warm & sweeter w/ more sustain, as you are describing. (Butch plays one of those on that same Travelers CD on some cuts, his unsigned Loar on others) But....... my closest mando to the Gil classical in tone is my new Heiden, and it is tone bar braced. So go figure..... YMMV, I think brace bars are just part of the equation, carving, wood selection, softer or harder back & side wood, kind of top wood, etc all enter into how it will sound. Smart is building me a dola right now w/ X bracing. I'd ask the luthier his opinion, describe what you are looking for in tone & go with their recommendation. There are so many other variables.
Arthur

[Flowerpot]

Here's some of Steve Gilchrist's comments from Apr 2003, off the co-mando guest of the week archives. I pulled out the questions which related to X-bracing. Check out co-mando.com (don't forget the hyphen, or you get some porn site), under "resources", then guest of the week. Lots of good info there.


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Q5

Q - I'm very interested in hearing you comment about the evolution in your product and art as a luthier. What structurally are you doing differently in constructing a mandolin now compared to ten and twenty years ago? Techniques in construction that you have changed? How would you compare the materials (wood) that you now have access to compared to ten and twenty ago? Has the sound of the mandolins you produce evolved or has it remained more constant?

A - Cosmetically and acoustically they are more consistent and more refined as new instruments. What happens over time as instruments dry out and play-in is the invisible magical ingredient in luthery. More than 20 years ago I developed the X bracing pattern to produce a more supple soundboard and therefore more bass response. The use of red maple and european spruce complimented that sound very well. Ronnie McCoury's mandolin is a good example of that combination.

More recently I've been developing my ability to understand and carve the harder wood of red spruce and rock maple with // bracing. These timbers offer another range of frequencies that for me hold the key to what I'm trying to achieve tonally now. Mike Compton's more recent // braced model is a good example of this. I must also add that I'm playing the instrument a lot more these days and find that this is a great asset to my building.


Q9

Q - I recently got to play an 81 Gilchrist with a reddish finish and a vine inlay in the fretboard. It was a crusher--loud and with wonderful tone. How many did you make with the vine inlay on the neck?

What's your take on the tone bar bracing versus X bracing these days? Were all of your early mandolins X braced or did you build both from the start?

A - That's the only vine I've build apart for an ala early Gibson vine a few years ago. X allows for a more supple top (more bass), // a stiffer top (more mids). The difference between the two is more noticeable with the softer spruces, not as noticeable with red. My first mod.5's were // until I moved to Gruhn's where I began experimenting with variations of the X. Its immediate gratification resulted in a lot of demand for that sound. It's in the last 5 years or so that I've had the space to revisit the // and work on understanding its contribution to tone.


Q19

Q - I'm the very happy owner of #94298. I must tell you that the first day I played her, I was not happy with the tone and playability. Charlie fixed the setup nicely (he had it REAL high at first), and with the lower setup it was a dream to play. But, the tone was not balanced. Clear as a bell, but no bottom. This is an X-braced instrument but it was all mids and highs. I was playing a '83 Flatiron A5-1 (Model 3 copy) and liked it's all around tone much better.

Now, after eight years, I love the Model 5's tone. It has changed dramatically for the better. Is this typical? I hear others talk about how good your mandolins sound "wet". It has taken a quite a few years for me to love this instrument, and now it's a "death do us part relationship".

Oh, and I look forward to our musical liberation this summer!

A - You can take the credit for the raising of 298. Although X braced, it is rock maple and red spruce, the hardest species. Red spruce is always the dominant factor over bracing patterns. Softer species allow more of a contrast between X or //. This combination holds the potential for the most powerful instrument in time as the bass develops to match the mids. When I started using red spruce, it took me a while to learn of its benefits and how to utilize it...a narrower window to work with but potentially a very powerful instrument. I think my current instruments are pretty consistent from new and I'm encouraged by how they are developing, not that I get to hear them very often.

This is the greatest ongoing challenge for me, trying to make new instruments sound like the best of the old but still build-in/allow room for their development. I love that process of maturity instruments develop once they leave the nest. Their own subtle voice, influenced by the owner, their technique and their environment. They're not living creatures, but sometimes they sure act like it!