new mando from mandoshop

[pavel]

I recently bought weber from Kyle at mandoshop and have to say this shopping experience was one of my best ones. We had several phone conversations before and after the purchase and they were always pleasant and informative. You can tell Kyle cares about his instruments but also about the people he is dealing with. The instrument came in perfect condition and the set up was spot on. I have never played easier playing mando. Just wanted to put it out there in case somebody is looking for a quality mandolin.

[Scott Tichenor]

I'm removing the posting privileges of this account with comment.

First off, I have no opinion positive or negative of the Mando Shop, no experience dealing with them. I think maybe I've had 1-2 emails over many years but can't recall the last. I have no reason to not be behind any retailer that sells mandolins. I invest a fair amount of time in researching when I think someone is abusing this space.

What I have observed over several years now are continued postings that bear remarkably similar language, punctuation, word use and key phrases, always in rave review of the Mando Shop. These posts stick out a little too well. Almost always from a brand new member who has never before posted, random IP addresses with a bit of a concentration in one key geographical area that makes me uncomfortable. Always a never-before-used email address never seen, not on Google or any other search engine, like it's fresh. The individual has never entered a Cafe giveaway, never used the Classifieds in any fashion, never contacted us, never entered their email anywhere on the web where it can be found. Gets better: afterwards these people never use the Classifieds, never enter a giveaway, never contact us, like they vanish. Maybe a few other posts, never to be heard from again. Routine, regular, almost predictable when the next one comes. We are at the point here where I'm calling abuse of the forum.

So, that said, when I see lots of people discussing a retailer in a single discussion I pay heed. But I've now reached a point where we're beyond funny business. I'm not saying it's the owner. It could be a family member or a fan or someone just playing games. Anything is possible.

The sad fact about this is that everyone has the right to share this kind of information, but I'm not about to subject anyone to having to deal with phony postings for the purpose of marketing.

[Timbofood]

Strong work, Scott! I must say you guys ride herd on this place with responsibility, not an easy task I am sure but, thanks for taking your site seriously.

[FLATROCK HILL]

I find the detective work that you do fascinating. It seems that word usage, syntax, punctuatoin etc, when examined correctly, can be almost as revealing as a fingerprint. Studying that side of the equation is something I can somewhat comprehend.

The tech stuff leaves me totally in the dark though. I wish I understood more about the methods people use to (attempt to) go under the radar on the internet. I don't understand how anyone can set up a fake email account or I.P. address.
After reading your comments, just for the heck of it I Googled my own email address. Had it for 7 yrs. or so. I must be underground too. I didn't find anything.

[yankees1]

Amen, it's about time !

[Rich11111]

I am new at learning the mandolin and chose a J Bovier based on positive reviews of this maker on this site. I am very pleased with that decision. Based on positive reviews i did discuss the purchase of one with The Mando Shop. The one I chose came as promised. So count me in as someone with positive experience. I have even considered buying an A style from them but decided on a packable mandolin i could put in my carry on bag from a small independent maker. This one should be at my door steps in a few weeks. I wish the best for honest business practices and those with unethical practices usually get their just rewards.

[dcoventry]

I frequently throw out folkmusician.com and proprietor Robert Fear as an example of a superlative transaction. I hope this not viewed as anything other than, simply; he was very nice and helpful.

[Rich11111]

dcoventry, you have way over 1K post . This post takes me to 3 so i hope that i am not going to be tagged as a spammer for The Mando Shop. After buying and receiving the mandolin the person I spoke to politely asked that I post on this forum on the positive experience if so, but I did not. I hope he is not being unfairly being spoken of. I have lurked this site for some time and have learned alot on my journey with this insanity of playing the mandolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

I've been analyzing the traffic for the posts that mention this retailer. They seem to have a whole lot in common beyond the similar verbiage. It's funny, the better retailers grow customer praise in a distinct manner. They don't need shills, they just seem to have satisfied customers. Kind of sad really.

[zedmando]

I would tend to take this kind of thing more seriously from someone who has been involved and posted more often, especially who has more than dealer or builder recommendations.

If they only have one post and that's it?

I'd be suspicious too.

[Michael Bridges]

I just hate that it happened regarding this particular dealer! I had a completely satisfactory experience with the MS, and have tried to convey that (and nothing else) in several posts. If somebody's trying to play the system, I understand the response. Just hope folks don't backlash against a genuinely decent guy.

[MHay61]

I think I posted something similar a year ago when I bought a Weber from the Mandoshop. Haven't posted much since. More of a lurker I guess. Hate to see him censored for Newbies excited about a new purchase.

[Scott Tichenor]

No one's saying they have bad service or product. I have privately heard from three members here who say they felt pressured as part of the purchase process with the dealer to post a positive review. Is that right? I fail to understand why someone in business thinks that is a sound business practice, because it is not. My initial concern here holds. There's a combination of some legitimate fans of the company--that's FINE. There's also a combination of someone gaming the membership at large. I didn't start this game, but I will end it.

[Scott Tichenor]

I think I posted something similar a year ago when I bought a Weber from the Mandoshop. Haven't posted much since. More of a lurker I guess. Hate to see him censored for Newbies excited about a new purchase.

You did not. This is not just about people happy with an instrument purchase and I fail to see how you can say that if you've read the concerns posted.

If you click your own user name you'll see you can bring up every post you've made. Only this one refers to the subject at hand.

[Russ Donahue]

Thanks for the stewardship Scott. It is appreciated.

[August Watters]

The word "censored" is out of place here. That would be if the government forced Scott to remove someone's post. Scott choosing to do so is nothing more than a business decision -- one made to protect the community from those trying to game the system. I think it's commendable that Scott chose to explain what happened, what actions he took, and his reasons for doing so.

[Denny Gies]

Very, very interesting. Scott, you should be a detective. I concur with your reasoning and assessment. I remain fascinated with the breadth and knowledge of the members of the Cafe.

[Dave Weiss]

I bought a J Bovier from Kyle at the Mando Shop a couple of years ago. Stellar deal, blah, blah, blah... Kyle (The Mando Shop) asked me to to put in a good word for him on the Mandolin Cafe, which I probably did, but don't remember. Kyle probably asks all of his customers to post good comments on the Cafe. Ethical(?), dishonest(?), free advertising of the best kind...

[bratsche]

This reminds me of Angie's List, which we joined in order to find some well-reputed specialists in a certain trade. Not free, you pay a small fee to join, and we've subsequently used it to find professionals in other fields, as well. Some businesses have been overly pushy about asking us to leave them a good review on AL, while others have been seemingly indifferent, and at the other extreme, one was rather embarrassed when we told him that's where we found him (he doesn't like AL since joining, as he feels some of their tactics are shady.) It takes all kinds!

bratsche

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually the best kind of advertising is when people decide to post those messages without being prompted to do so. I bought a lot of instruments over the years from the late Stan Jay at Mandolin Brothers. I bought instruments and equipment over the years from Elderly, Janet Davis, FQMS, The Mandolin Store, Music Zoo, and a whole lot of other places. None of those people ever asked me to give them a good review. If I did it was because the service warranted it. If the MandoShop is that good then people will find their way here and share that information. They certainly seem to find their way here when they have a problem with a retailer. Over the years real stellar brands and retailers have grown businesses on this forum. The guys trying to shill their way in have always stumbled.

[dreadhead]

I bought a used Collings MT2 from The MandoShop last year and it was a mostly positive experience. I'm loacted in France and had the mandolin shipped to my sister in Tennessee. The mandolin was listed for $2600 and I asked him if that was the best price he could give me...he took $100 off & also installed a strap button for free. He knew that it was going to be several months before I picked it up, so he took his time and assured me that he'd give me a good setup. When I finally tried the mandolin for the first time there was string buzz on the A string when played open which I hoped was just the string. Unfortunately, the buzz didn't go away with a string change and it was obvious that the nut was cut too low. I try to give people the benefit of doubt, but I did wonder if it was done on purpose because of his loss of an extra $100. I never mentioned this on the forum because I know that negative reviews do damage, but I would only purchase from The Mandoshop again if I was able to try the instrument before buying. For now, I just have a little bit of aluminum foil between the a string and nut, so no buzz. I'm tempted to try a slightly bigger A string gauge to see if that eleviates the problem. It's just a little nuisance.....just seemed a little strange getting a mandolin with a buzz from someone famous for his good setups.

[nordian]

I have bought from Robert Fear at Folkmusician (Loar LM700 with CA bridge) and from Kyle at the Mandoshop (JBovier A5 Special with Allen tailpiece). Both of the transactions went perfectly and both men were a pleasure to talk to and deal with. Both answered any questions and concerns I had in a professional courteous manner and kept me updated throughout the process. I have been very satisfied with both mandolins and I am pretty sure that I posted at some point about dealing with both of these gentlemen on the forums without any solicitation to do so from either gentleman. Great experience with both sellers.

[Mandosurf]

I bought a J. Bovier A5 trad from Kyle a few months ago, as well. He also asked me to post on here.. So I didn't. When I drove to Tallahassee to check out his shop and play a few higher end mandos that I'd normally never get to play, he said I couldn't play them unless I was going to buy one that day.. I was bummed. I can understand being protective of expensive instruments, but I can't understand that mentality of "if you want to play them, you have to buy one." I will say that I LOVE my bovier A5 and the set up was perfect! I just bought a brand new Gibson F9, and amazingly the bovier holds up to the F9 quite well.. If Kyle would've let me play a few nice mandos, I probably would've bought a high end instrument from him.. But the way he treated me that day made me take my thousands of dollars else where. Just sayin

[Timbofood]

You did the right thing, which is exactly what I would have done, simply leave. I was trying out a mandolin at a store here in town years ago and after about three or four minutes an employee(fairly obviously hungover) came over and said "Isn't that about enough?" I turned and looked him squarely in he bleary eyes and said, "I guess so!"turned on my heel and walked out the door, never to visit the joint again. Sadly or, justifiably, the store went belly up. I think it's pretty sad when stores treat customers like that.
When I was in retail I used to try to remember a line from "Teachers" when Nick Nolte says "Hey, we're here for them, they're not here for US!" It struck a chord with me.

[darylcrisp]

I bought a J. Bovier A5 trad from Kyle a few months ago, as well. He also asked me to post on here.. So I didn't. When I drove to Tallahassee to check out his shop and play a few higher end mandos that I'd normally never get to play, he said I couldn't play them unless I was going to buy one that day.. I was bummed. I can understand being protective of expensive instruments, but I can't understand that mentality of "if you want to play them, you have to buy one." I will say that I LOVE my bovier A5 and the set up was perfect! I just bought a brand new Gibson F9, and amazingly the bovier holds up to the F9 quite well.. If Kyle would've let me play a few nice mandos, I probably would've bought a high end instrument from him.. But the way he treated me that day made me take my thousands of dollars else where. Just sayin

i had one experience with this shop owner, and with regards to your last sentence, i too would have probably by now purchased more mandolins. since my incident(http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?107860-well-i-found-a-nice-Collings-used-but) i have purchased a Collings MT, MTO, and custom Northfield F5S, all from the same shop(tejonstreetmusic.com/).
Those 3 purchases were fun, the instruments provided were extremely nice and well setup and the whole experience each time was very positive.
Also after my incident, i have purchased a Weber and another mandolin from TMS, again, very easy to work with, extremely nice instruments were sent, and very positive experiences.

[Zyzzyzus]

It's interesting to hear that at least once, a customer was not allowed to play the high end mandolins in the shop. I posted awhile here about my J. Bovier that I got from the mandoshop, though I didn't identify the shop at the time. It came with several scuffs and many people pointed out that that is a common thing because people often play instruments in the stores. I was also asked to come here specifically and leave a positive review. I didn't, because while I love the playability and sound of my J. Bovier,I came away from the purchasing of it with a bad taste in my mouth as regards customer service. I called and spoke to somebody at the shop and asked about J. Bovier mandolins, since by that point I was sure I wanted one of that brand, and I was having a hard time finding a store that sold them. I said near the end of the phone call that I would think about it and call the mandoshop back if I wanted to go ahead with the purchase. At that point the person on the phone became aggressive and asked why I wanted to think about it, since I would never get a better instrument anywhere else. I did ultimately buy from the mando shop because I wanted a J. Bovier and did extensive research and couldn't find another instrument that I thought I would like better. At the time I decided to not say anything positive or negative publicly because I had chosen to buy the instrument and it was set up well and does sound good. I think it is not in good taste to become aggressive when a potential customer says they'd like to take a day to think about making a several hundred dollar purchase over the phone with a shop they've never set foot in before. Everybody has bad days however. I also was unimpressed that I was strongly asked to make a positive review here, I was even told which things I should mention as being positives. So now ultimately what I will say is :I love my mandolin and it was set up very well by the mandoshop. Customer service was poor and aggressive, and that combined with some weird overselling (my mandolin 'didn't sound as good as the A5 special in stock' and then suddenly became 'the best sounding mandolin, you'll love it more than any other ever' once I had paid for it.) ultimately I would not buy from them again.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Actually the best kind of advertising is when people decide to post those messages without being prompted to do so. I bought a lot of instruments over the years from the late Stan Jay at Mandolin Brothers. I bought instruments and equipment over the years from Elderly, Janet Davis, FQMS, The Mandolin Store, Music Zoo, and a whole lot of other places. None of those people ever asked me to give them a good review. If I did it was because the service warranted it. If the MandoShop is that good then people will find their way here and share that information. They certainly seem to find their way here when they have a problem with a retailer. Over the years real stellar brands and retailers have grown businesses on this forum. The guys trying to shill their way in have always stumbled.

Yes, ideally a satisfied customer will post a positive review without being prompted. Something about a business asking a customer to go on-line and give a good review taints the whole thing. Those shenanigans are sneaky enough. Creating false identities specifically to come here and post phony positive reviews should be totally unacceptable. I'm glad Scott T. takes the time to ferret out the offenders.

In my opinion, part of the problem is the internet itself. The system breeds competition for the spotlight. I'm sick of being asked to "Like us on Facebook".

[allenhopkins]

Interesting: a store that specializes in an instrument that appeals to a specialized clientele, and apparently keeps a large stock of several well-respected brands on hand. Sounds really good, and yet customer-relations issues seem to cause some "buyer regret" -- not about the instruments themselves, but about the process of making the purchase.

Interesting that the website features a page with±50 "testimonials," (http://www.themandoshop.com/testimonials/testimonials-for-the-mando-shop.html) including a few quoted Cafe´ posts. Seems like quite a few satisfied customers — but pressuring buyers for "positive feedback" seems like a poor marketing technique, as a few examples shown in this thread are going to do more damage than those 50 "plus" reviews do good, IMHO.

[TheMandoShop]

The sad fact about this is that everyone has the right to share this kind of information, but I'm not about to subject anyone to having to deal with phony postings for the purpose of marketing.

Scott,

I don't believe any of the postings are phony. I do introduce my new customers to the Mandolin Cafe as it is such a great resource. Pavel purchased a Weber Gallatin A Light Faded Leather Mandolin - Serial no. 14291705. He lives in Colorado. If you have any additional concerns about any posting not being from legitimate players please contact me and I will help you resolve any postings in question. Thank you for the great service you offer to all of us who love your Mandolin Cafe.

Regards,
Kyle

[Timbofood]

Timbofood don't Facebook!
Paraphrased from "Machete"
Doesn't sound like a phony posting, more coerced. Should I ever be in the vicinity I will be happy to post an honest, truthful visit report. Much as folks do about Elderly instruments, Gruhn, Carter's or many other known retailers.
I think Scott is well within his rights as site owner to question overly similar posts which sound phony.
I say keep up the ethics this site is known for!

[TheMandoShop]

I love my mandolin and it was set up very well by the mandoshop. Customer service was poor and aggressive, and that combined with some weird overselling (my mandolin 'didn't sound as good as the A5 special in stock' and then suddenly became 'the best sounding mandolin, you'll love it more than any other ever' once I had paid for it.) ultimately I would not buy from them again.

My wife has said to me more than once, why do you take so much time to play these mandolins for your potential customer? When someone asks me to compare the mandolins, I actually sit down and play them to give my honest opinion of them. In this case I chose the A5 Special as the better sounding mandolin and yet still believed any of the JBovier A5 mandolins would be a good choice and as good as it gets in this price range. I'm sorry if I seemed overly aggressive in my efforts to do my best to help you find the best mandolin for you. That was certainly not my intention.

[yankees1]

My wife has said to me more than once, why do you take so much time to play these mandolins for your potential customer? When someone asks me to compare the mandolins, I actually sit down and play them to give my honest opinion of them. In this case I chose the A5 Special as the better sounding mandolin and yet still believed any of the JBovier A5 mandolins would be a good choice and as good as it gets in this price range. I'm sorry if I seemed overly aggressive in my efforts to do my best to help you find the best mandolin for you. That was certainly not my intention. First class responses Kyle ! That's what you need to do ! :)

[TheMandoShop]

Timbofood don't Facebook!
Paraphrased from "Machete"
Doesn't sound like a phony posting, more coerced. Should I ever be in the vicinity I will be happy to post an honest, truthful visit report. Much as folks do about Elderly instruments, Gruhn, Carter's or many other known retailers.
I think Scott is well within his rights as site owner to question overly similar posts which sound phony.
I say keep up the ethics this site is known for!

I know in my heart most times I do a good job with customer service, trying hard to go above and beyond to assure a customer gets a mandolin that will be a positive part of their life. I'm proud of the quality mandolins I sell and the exceptionally good mandolin setup that has become part of my signature. All of the testimonials on my website were unsolicited and I've got many more I've yet to post.

When I sell a mandolin I do ask my customers to share their experience on the mandolin cafe. I am not intending to pressure or coerce anybody to say anything except share their experience in their words. Here is exactly what I say to my new customers as any of them can attest to.

If you ever visit the General Mandolin Discussions forum on www.mandolincafe.com please tell them about your new mandolin and your experience purchasing it from me. That really helps people to know that I’m doing good setups and selling good mandolins.

That so many of them would be willing to post about their experience I take as quite a compliment. I will continue to do my best to serve the mandolin community well.

Regards,
Kyle

[TheMandoShop]

I bought a used Collings MT2 from The MandoShop last year and it was a mostly positive experience. I'm loacted in France and had the mandolin shipped to my sister in Tennessee. The mandolin was listed for $2600 and I asked him if that was the best price he could give me...he took $100 off & also installed a strap button for free. He knew that it was going to be several months before I picked it up, so he took his time and assured me that he'd give me a good setup. When I finally tried the mandolin for the first time there was string buzz on the A string when played open which I hoped was just the string. Unfortunately, the buzz didn't go away with a string change and it was obvious that the nut was cut too low. I try to give people the benefit of doubt, but I did wonder if it was done on purpose because of his loss of an extra $100. I never mentioned this on the forum because I know that negative reviews do damage, but I would only purchase from The Mandoshop again if I was able to try the instrument before buying. For now, I just have a little bit of aluminum foil between the a string and nut, so no buzz. I'm tempted to try a slightly bigger A string gauge to see if that eleviates the problem. It's just a little nuisance.....just seemed a little strange getting a mandolin with a buzz from someone famous for his good setups.

Collings is the only mandolin manufacturer that channels their nuts to the same exact specifications that I do by hand. I can honestly say I have never channeled a nut on any Collings mandolin. I'm always impressed with how perfect they are. I do adjust the relief in the neck to make them play easier. Only 3 times, not on Collings mandolins, I've seen where a truss rod has shifted and required a re-adjustment and this might be the cause of the A string buzz. I play every mandolin I ship and never ship one unless I am 100% satisfied with how it plays and sounds. I would never knowingly ship a mandolin with a problem and I am the only one at The Mando Shop doing the setups so the buck stops with me. Please email me if you are still experiencing the problem and I would be happy to help you with it.

Regards,
Kyle

[Scott Tichenor]

When I sell a mandolin I do ask my customers to share their experience on the mandolin cafe. I am not intending to pressure or coerce anybody to say anything except share their experience in their words. Here is exactly what I say to my new customers as any of them can attest to.

If you ever visit the General Mandolin Discussions forum on www.mandolincafe.com please tell them about your new mandolin and your experience purchasing it from me. That really helps people to know that I’m doing good setups and selling good mandolins.

That so many of them would be willing to post about their experience I take as quite a compliment. I will continue to do my best to serve the mandolin community well.

And yet your customers have felt pressured and uncomfortable. Some are saying they've been directed what to say and how to say it. That's not me speaking, it's your own customers. I didn't write those comments. They did. Perhaps an apology to them would have been more appropriate. When individuals engage in spiking favorable comments for their own products they're selling on the forum their membership is revoked. In this case you're directing your customers to do that work for you. This doesn't address those posts which are bogus.

I know of no retailer, brick and mortar or internet based that pressures customers to come out here and post of the owner's behalf. This is my formal request you discontinue that practice when it involves this forum.

[Jstring]

Kyle,
I'm curious as to why you don't advertise on Mandolin Cafe, sponsor the forum, etc. Many of us on the Cafe are much more likely to buy from retailers who support the site. Clearly, you are cognizant of the benefit of exposure on Mandolin Cafe since you ask your customers to leave positive reviews. I would suggest that taking out an ad would be a more upstanding- and effective- method of growing your business.

[Rich11111]

I see The Mando Shop has some post in this now. I'm on vacation now and when i am away from my mandolin I feel that i am loosing valuable learning time and that I am lucky for getting what i have from them. Poor Pavel he has been banned from the site for doing business with The Mando Shop though by his post is pleased with his purchase. Gosh, that could have been me. Call it like i see it. Just trying to keep the fire going:)

[Scott Tichenor]

Kyle,
I'm curious as to why you don't advertise on Mandolin Cafe, sponsor the forum, etc. Many of us on the Cafe are much more likely to buy from retailers who support the site. Clearly, you are cognizant of the benefit of exposure on Mandolin Cafe since you ask your customers to leave positive reviews. I would suggest that taking out an ad would be a more upstanding- and effective- method of growing your business.

Not interested in their business.