Smoke Damage / Cleaning, Odor Removal

[pglasse]

This last week we had a fire in our home. The good news is that no person or animal got hurt. Also, no instruments burned up or had direct fire damage.

However, all of my instruments were in the house, all but one was in a case. The outside of all of the cases smell like smoke. The inside of many of the cases and most of the best instruments smell like smoke. These include my my beloved 1986 Monteleone Stye B, two Stevens Paul Glasse Model 5-string electrics, a Bourgeous OM, an Arrow Paul Glasse Model mandola, a Ditson Uke (not in case) etc....

So, can any of you suggest the best way to deodorize these instruments and their cases? I'm in discussion with the folks involved with the whole-house cleaning and recovery. They are open to learning how this should be handled or who should do this -- just don't have specific experience with these kinds of instruments.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.

Paul Glasse

[Marty Jacobson]

Paul, I'm sorry to hear about the fire, but glad nobody was hurt.
I think time and extensive playing is the gentlest and surest approach. You've put some good miles on all of them and this will become part of the story behind each of the instruments. I don't think there are any chemicals or treatments which anyone can guarantee will not affect the structure or finish of valuable instruments. Maybe ionized air treatments are worth a shot.

[Tavy]

Can you hang them up in a wind tunnel?

OK, the serious answer is I don't know, and hopefully very few folks will have had to go through this before - very glad to hear you're all OK.

Finding a way to get good air movement around them over a period of time would seem to be the main ploy.... is there any smoky residue left behind? I have heard of folks pooring dried lentles (or similar, other vegitables are available!) inside their instruments and giving a good shake up to clean out the insides. Outide, a wipe down with a damp cloth is about all you can do.

I hope you get this sorted out, John.

[HoGo]

Just clean them gently on the outside with deionized water and buff with soft cloth. You can try to clean the insides using rice (handfull of rice in, shake well with apertures covered - carefully if pickups or something else is installed inside, then shake the rice out - vacuuming may help), this will remove much of dust accumulated inside and may help with the smoke partially. Then lots of time in open air...

[Pete Jenner]

Naphtha anyone?

[GTison]

The fire restoration company should know how to deal with this. Insurance may cover it as well. But, from what I've heard, ozone treatments help. Other things might be to wipe it down with "Odo-Ban" that worked in my kitchen after a small smoke incident. That will not take care of the inside of instruments though.
I've wondered about the ozone treatment as an artificial aging or distressing technique. Sounds like it may have some unwanted effects. I wouldn't do this my self.

[pops1]

There is a polish and a cleaner a friend of mine outside of Nashville sells, it is called legend and it has no petroleum distillates so it shouldn't hurt the finish. I cleaned a guitar that had been in a fire years before it came to me with the cleaner and i came out remarkably well. If you want check it out you can go here, if you order say hello to Dan.

https://artisanguitars.com/legend-guitar-cleaner

[Jim Adwell]

I've used a product called ZorbX to remove cigarette smoke from upholstery and various other items that came with our current house (previous owner was a chain smoker) with excellent results, actually almost miraculous results. It's sold at Lowes, is water based and comes in a spray bottle.

http://www.zorbx.com/newsite/index.asp

[SGraham]

I've had some success with placing baking soda in an open container inside the instrument/case. It won't cure the odor problem, but it will definitely help. Just be careful not to spill it.

[stevedenver]

sorry to hear of the fire

Long ago my Jag was in a garage fire. everything but my car melted-just inches away was a bubbly and black MG!
Unbelievably nothing happened to my car.

My car smelled of smoke for about a year.
I often left my windows partially opened to help with air circulation.

I recommend a thorough washing, when possible, with water and ammonia, and a clear rinse, of the cases. Use a damp rag, obviously.
Ammonia will remove grease and tars nicely.

I also recommend, as feasible, as much sun (even if shaded) and air.

Like bacon cooked in the home, fires deposit micro molecules of wood 'tars' which float, land on everything in a thin film, take a long time to break down. A fine yellow film usually.

Detergent and air will speed this up, where they can safely be used, as would, I am certain, polishing with appropriate polishes for the finish. Peronsally, on nitro, I would have no concerns about using a diluted dish detergent and luke to warm water mixture followed by a very thorough removal with fresh water only on a damp cloth. Look for yellow brown coming off on the rags. You might even try, as would I, in a small unobtrusive area, diluted ammonia water IF you find the finish doesn't feel really smooth and clean after your first goes, be it with polish, or diluted detergent. Nitro is very forgiving, provided you wipe off all stuff and all moisture reasonably quickly.
Obviously if you have checking or cracks in the nitro, I would not use anything other than lightly damp, if that, thinking of your Ditson.


I agree too, naptha on the raw wood (unfinished fingerboards and bridges).

I would, if it were me, take one instrument at a time, and strip and disassemble as I might, to thoroughly clean every surface, bridges, tailpieces, under the strings, headstock face etc. wipe down the tuners, electronics, just a s much as you can bring yourself to do. It will be a big, slow job, likely requiring complete re-set up.

for the monte, I presume its varnish, and if so, I would try the Dave Harvey Jubilee-while I don't know if it 'cleans' , I have used it on my Brent and Ellis, and it seems to remove crud and smells nice too. it seems to be mineral based, and this should serve to remove any of the gunk, gently.

im afraid, time will take care of it all. Time and lots and lots of air.

you may or may not need to replace your cases, depending on how saturated they are inside. I have found that even pleasant rosewood smells, long gone from the instrument itself, linger for decades in a case. It would be a shame to clean everything up only to have the case redeposit film.

I suppose given the number of instruments, you might also consider a dedicated room, for recovery, with adjusted humidity, if that's a factor, and simply keep them all out, with a large fan on low, for several months.

best of luck

[Vernon Hughes]

I spent 8 years in the fire and water restoration business. The fire clean up company should have a dedicated ozone room at their facility to remove most of the smoke smell. They may have to stay in the ozoned environment for a couple weeks. We haf a lot of success getting rid of the smell after a thorough cleaning and a long period in the room. It may or may not work 100%.

[Tom C]

It will go away, not like mildew. Picking at friends, we did not realize chimney was not working good til we couldn't see each other. My mando smelled like a fireplace for a month but it did go away.

[DWM]

After our van was stolen (and smoked in for 24 hrs a day for 2 weeks), the dealer used an ozone generator to remove the very bad smell. It worked, and as a result I bought an ozone generator on EBay for all of $99. I've used it to remove smoke odors from my daughter's car and from a room in the house that was being smoked in. I recently bought a used Taylor guitar that smelled a bit off, so put the case and the guitar in a bathroom with the ozone generator on for 30 min. and left it for the day and that cured it. The ozone is a serious irritant to your breathing passages and lungs, so must be used very carefully with lots of ventilation after use. If you can get the insurance company to have it done for you that would be the way to go.

[Jeff Mando]

[QUOTE=stevedenver; I also recommend, as feasible, as much sun (even if shaded) and air. [/QUOTE]

Shaded sun--what a concept! Something like a squared circle, I presume....

Just kidding, actually a lot of great advice, Steve! Thanks.

[DWest]

For what it's worth: Once bought a guitar sight unseen. Although it looked fine, it smelled like an ashtray. The problem was cured by masking around the soundhole then fogging the inside with CrystleClear artists fixative, available at art supply stores. Although it smelled strongly of lacquer for a few days, the problem was cured. The object wasn't to spray-paint the interior, but to "fog" the interior surface. It was surprising how little fog was required to cure the problem.

As for the house, I've had that problem as well. I asked the re-hab contractor what he recommended to neutralize the strong smoke and char odor. His recommendation was to spray the charred areas with silver paint.... that being about the only thing that would deal with the odor. He did that and sure'nuf it killed the smell. Like I said, for whatever it's worth.

[sblock]

There's already a MC thread on "musty case smell" that covers most of the ways to remove bad smells from instruments and cases, beyond merely cleaning surfaces and wiping them down. Please click here. (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?16900-musty-smell-in-hardshell-case) These techniques apply to smoke as well. Careful ozone treatment may be your best bet if other methods fail. But don't overdo in, and be sure to remove any rubber or leather beforehand.

[Mark Marino]

I had a house fire back in 1995 with similar issues. Trust me- throw away and claim all of the cases as you will never get all of the soot and smell out, and smoke is acidic. No matter how well you clean things like metal hinges, you'll see rust or corrosion soon... and every humid day the smell will come back. 20 years later I still have that experience with a few cases I kept. The fire restoration company I used had an ozone room- I left two classical guitars in there for over a month and it took away all the smoke smell with no adverse effects whatsoever (and classical guitars are probably more finicky than other instruments). Any instrument that was not in a case may last a while but you'll see rapid degradation over time so push your insurer NOW to either replace them or provide at least a 5-year stability guarantee in writing.

free to contact me via the cafe if you have any questions I can help you with, and best wishes-- Mark

[stevedenver]

Shaded sun--what a concept! Something like a squared circle, I presume....

Just kidding, actually a lot of great advice, Steve! Thanks.

yeah my bad,
I was just thinking outside in the light
but not something so strong that might fade or yellow stuff-as happens here in COloradp with the UV

I actually faded my fern's red a good deal over a couple of seasons, playing on my patio in the summer evening, and always sitting in the shade of my trees during the summer, indirect light you know......

you know like a quick slow step......

[pglasse]

Thanks so much to all who weighed in on this topic.

Update: my friend Tom Ellis and his team took over a very cautious, conservative, approach to cleaning the instruments themselves. On the cases: after Tom cleaned the outsides a company hired by the insurance company hepa-vacuumed the insides of the cases then put the cases in an ozone room for a bit. The instruments did not require this.

Anyway...the results, so far, on the "main" instruments I've gotten back, are absolutely great.

I'd like to send out a big thank you to Tom Ellis for being willing to take on this project. I know he's got plenty of other projects to see through. Oh yes, he builds fine mandolins too. ;)

[Michael Lewis]

Yes, Tom Ellis is one of the GoodGuys, for sure.

[Bill Swiggard]

There is a polish and a cleaner a friend of mine outside of Nashville sells, it is called legend and it has no petroleum distillates so it shouldn't hurt the finish. I cleaned a guitar that had been in a fire years before it came to me with the cleaner and i came out remarkably well. If you want check it out you can go here, if you order say hello to Dan.

https://artisanguitars.com/legend-guitar-cleaner

Hey there, pops1! I must thank you sincerely for sending me to Artisan Guitars and teaching me about their Legend Guitar Cleaner (and polish). I just acquired a stunning 1996 Flatiron Scout Mandola, lovely dark red satin finish, rich tenor sound, excellent fit and finish and in fine structural condition but clearly from a smoking home. Very strong cigarette smell that did not abate with fresh air, baking soda, vacuuming the case and several other sensible methods described in this thread. So I read this post and whipped over to Artisan Guitars, bought a bottle of Legend Cleaner and WOW! The stuff is indeed gentle to wood and safe for use on plastic and metal but it is powerful against Time Grime. It very efficiently stripped off a film of dark-yellowish smoke residue, then buffed to a lovely understated gleam. I may need to treat the instrument a second time, but after a single application, smoke smell has gone from strong to barely there and the color has brightened noticeably with the film removed. Anyway, thanks - and hats off to the folks at Artisan for a great product! .... Bill

[theCOOP]

.. this will remove much of dust accumulated inside and may help with the smoke partially. Then lots of time in open air...

Significant!

[verbs4us]

In the 1970s I was in a dorm fire in a college (one person died) and everything I had was smoke damaged. My D-28 was in the case, and it and the case smelled pretty bad. I asked one of the fireman what to do and he said "coffee and baking soda." He meant in a plastic bag, poked with holes and rapped in cheese cloth. Pretty cheap option. I took off the strings and stuffed the box with a few bags and did the same inside the case. It took a few weeks but the smell seemed to lessen--and it did smell like Maxwell House for a while, which was not bad, and since I was playing John Hurt and it fit the theme. I don't know if it was the formulation or just time, but it didn't seem to hurt and maybe it helped. For the outside of the case, I got in the habit of leaving it outside in the sun (sans guitar) when I had the chance, and that seemed to help.

[pops1]

Hey there, pops1! I must thank you sincerely for sending me to Artisan Guitars and teaching me about their Legend Guitar Cleaner (and polish). I just acquired a stunning 1996 Flatiron Scout Mandola, lovely dark red satin finish, rich tenor sound, excellent fit and finish and in fine structural condition but clearly from a smoking home. Very strong cigarette smell that did not abate with fresh air, baking soda, vacuuming the case and several other sensible methods described in this thread. So I read this post and whipped over to Artisan Guitars, bought a bottle of Legend Cleaner and WOW! The stuff is indeed gentle to wood and safe for use on plastic and metal but it is powerful against Time Grime. It very efficiently stripped off a film of dark-yellowish smoke residue, then buffed to a lovely understated gleam. I may need to treat the instrument a second time, but after a single application, smoke smell has gone from strong to barely there and the color has brightened noticeably with the film removed. Anyway, thanks - and hats off to the folks at Artisan for a great product! .... Bill

Glad to be of help, that indeed is a great product.

[Matt Harris]

So, I just purchased a used mandolin that smells awfully of incense. Here's what I'm trying. Emptied a couple of teabags and filled them with baking soda, then slid them in through the F holes. We'll see how it works after a few days!

144357

[sblock]

Ozone treatment still works the best, if your home remedy fails.

[Matt Harris]

I left the baking soda filled teabags in the mandolin for 5 days, and the smell is tremendously improved. So, it seems to be a viable way to help minimize at least some smells.