I need to find out when Gibson F-12 mandolin was made.

[bluesrays]

I had posted a post several weeks ago. "Need help dateing-dating a mandolin" S/N A-26389 Sorry did not post pictures at that time. Was told made late in 1956. I had a feeling it was older because of the script on head stock, but my research showed early teens which I knew was not correct for an F 12. So I hope picture will help discover actual age. The decal inside is Orange- Style F -12, Gibson Mandolin, Gibson Inc. Kalamazoo, Michigan. Head-stock "The Gibson" Thanks for any help!

[jochemgr]

Looks like it's been converted to an F-5 by someone with that headstock inlay and binding! Sorry don't know age, but it looks awesome. A converted 50s F-12 would be my guess so '56 looks about right.

[lenf12]

It looks a lot like my '56 F-12 s/n A 24586 and FON V6292. Is that triple binding on the headstock? Is the neck maple? I was convinced that the maple neck on mine was from a 1970's era F-5 transplant but after looking at yours, I'm not so sure....

128863

However, there are some differences in the hardware. I swapped the Kluson tuners for a set of Gotoh's with real pearl buttons, the rosewood bridge with large brass thumb wheels was swapped for a Cumberland Acoustics ebony bridge w/small wheels. I've kept the original tuners and RW bridge for some future owner but feel the hardware upgrades were well worth the loss of originality. The gold tailpiece was put on at some point before I got it about 12 or 13 years ago but I do like the cloud tailpiece on yours. Also, the pick guard is an F-5 Loar era repro by f5journal Darryl Wolfe. Very nicely done indeed.

Yours is a '56 F-12 with possibly some original custom or later factory upgrades. Is yours a "heavy" mandolin? Mine certainly is but despite the weight, it is plenty loud enough to cause 2 local banjo players to complain bitterly. :) I just love its cool, funky vintage vibe....and so should you. Talk to ya later.


Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Willie Poole]

Not sure what year but Gibson brought back the F-12`s that looked a whole lot like an F-5, I never seen or heard one that sounded very good, I am sure it was after 1970 though, they had the Florida fingerboard and "The Gibson" script on the head stock also...Someone with more knowledge should be able to chime in on this also you could Google Gibson F-12`s and see what turns up...IF this a `50`s F-12 then it sure has had some alterations to the headstock...

[bluesrays]

Jochemgr, thanks you hit the nail on the head. I just figured out this puzzle with the help of another source also. You are absolutely correct and so our the ones who dated it around 1956. Its actually a early 1957 F-12. It was converted to an older F-5 style head-stock. It took quite a bit of digging, but thanks to everyone its figured out. I'm going to keep the details to my self for now, but will see who can put 2 & 2 together. First hint when the work was done they left a sticker on the inside of mandolin body. GTR, Inc.. That is all for now.

[jim simpson]

GTR = George, Tut, & Randy - Randy Wood

[lenf12]

I never seen or heard one that sounded very good,...IF this a `50`s F-12 then it sure has had some alterations to the headstock...


GTR = George, Tut, & Randy - Randy Wood

2 and 2 = GTR, especially R as in Randy Wood who has done plenty of F-12 to F-5 conversions. He also does excellent re-voicing work as well, removing the back of the mandolin and re-graduating the top, back and tone bars from inside the box. Willie, if Randy Wood re-voiced this mandolin, you can bet the farm that it sounds excellent. He re-voiced mine 6 years ago and I have no regrets whatsoever, especially if I can make the banjo players cringe with a single chop chord.

Now that you've established the age (early 1957) it would be quite interesting to learn who may have owned the mandolin over the years, prior to your ownership bluesray. Maybe there's also a date on that GTR label (1970's I'm guessing)?

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[William Smith]

Looks like she has had some rework done that peghead looks to good for a 12!

[lenf12]

bg78, the OP has established that the mandolin had some work done by revealing the GTR, Inc. sticker inside. Here's a picture of a '54 F-12 original headstock.

128904

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Willie Poole]

Len, I was referring to the newer F-12`s that I had heard not the ones that were re voiced, I had a `56 F-12 converted to an F-5 but never had the top re carved, new peg head design, new fingerboard, new tail piece, I did contact Randy about doing the work but he said there would be waiting period so I had most if done by local builders, Vern Bryant, Paul Tester and the last bit by Chris Warner, Chris liked the sound that it already had so we didn`t do any work on the body itself....I WISH I STILL HAD IT to be honest...

Do you ever get up around the Lakeland area for any gigs? I will be down here until April 1st....

Willie

[William Smith]

Guess I should've paid attention! Thanks!

[lenf12]

Len, I was referring to the newer F-12`s that I had heard not the ones that were re voiced, I had a `56 F-12 converted to an F-5 but never had the top re carved, new peg head design, new fingerboard, new tail piece, I did contact Randy about doing the work but he said there would be waiting period so I had most if done by local builders, Vern Bryant, Paul Tester and the last bit by Chris Warner, Chris liked the sound that it already had so we didn`t do any work on the body itself....I WISH I STILL HAD IT to be honest...

Do you ever get up around the Lakeland area for any gigs? I will be down here until April 1st....

Willie

Hi Willie,

You mean the ones that were reintroduced in the '70s for a few years? I never paid much attention to that later vintage Gibson mandolin but I do know what you're talking about. I'll bet you wish you had that '56 back. It must have a good 'un if Chris Warner liked the sound as is.

I'm not a gigging player. I just get out 2 or 3 times a week to play with friends. No money involved beyond gas and beer so it stays fun.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[bluesrays]

2 and 2 = GTR, especially R as in Randy Wood who has done plenty of F-12 to F-5 conversions. He also does excellent re-voicing work as well, removing the back of the mandolin and re-graduating the top, back and tone bars from inside the box. Willie, if Randy Wood re-voiced this mandolin, you can bet the farm that it sounds excellent. He re-voiced mine 6 years ago and I have no regrets whatsoever, especially if I can make the banjo players cringe with a single chop chord.

Now that you've established the age (early 1957) it would be quite interesting to learn who may have owned the mandolin over the years, prior to your ownership bluesray. Maybe there's also a date on that GTR label (1970's I'm guessing)?

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Len, yes George confirmed that this was sold from his shop GTR, Inc and Randy Wood
did this conversion. I'm not a mandolin player, but a guitar player. I played around on this and it has a really nice tone. I do know who it belonged to and I'm doing more research on his band. I never heard of Randy Wood, but just started to find out and OMG his work in incredible. Will keep you posted on any other info. yes this work was done in the 70's. maybe 77 cant read date

[lenf12]

Len, yes George confirmed that this was sold from his shop GTR, Inc and Randy Wood
did this conversion. I'm not a mandolin player, but a guitar player. I played around on this and it has a really nice tone. I do know who it belonged to and I'm doing more research on his band. I never heard of Randy Wood, but just started to find out and OMG his work in incredible. Will keep you posted on any other info. yes this work was done in the 70's. maybe 77 cant read date

That pretty much confirms my guessing. Thank you very much bluesrays!! Randy has been building since the 60's I believe so he's an old hand with a ton of experience and his conversions are a favorite of mine. You can get so much vintage Gibson vibe for relatively short money. I'd love to play it (are you anywhere near Clearwater, FL?) and suggest that you become a mandolin player too. Guitar is nice but mandolin is the voice of the angels. Please keep posting on this mandolin as you learn more info.

Thanks again!!
Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[bluesrays]

That pretty much confirms my guessing. Thank you very much bluesrays!! Randy has been building since the 60's I believe so he's an old hand with a ton of experience and his conversions are a favorite of mine. You can get so much vintage Gibson vibe for relatively short money. I'd love to play it (are you anywhere near Clearwater, FL?) and suggest that you become a mandolin player too. Guitar is nice but mandolin is the voice of the angels. Please keep posting on this mandolin as you learn more info.

Thanks again!!
Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Len, no problem. I will keep you posted. I don't get over there much, by any chance are you going to guitar show this weekend. yes I plan on learning to play the mandolin. Thanks, Ray

[bluesrays]

That pretty much confirms my guessing. Thank you very much bluesrays!! Randy has been building since the 60's I believe so he's an old hand with a ton of experience and his conversions are a favorite of mine. You can get so much vintage Gibson vibe for relatively short money. I'd love to play it (are you anywhere near Clearwater, FL?) and suggest that you become a mandolin player too. Guitar is nice but mandolin is the voice of the angels. Please keep posting on this mandolin as you learn more info.

Thanks again!!
Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Len, no problem. I will keep you posted. I don't get over there much, by any chance are you going to guitar show this weekend. yes I plan on learning to play the mandolin. Thanks, Ray

[f5loar]

I get mid 1957 on this F12 RW conversion to F5 but need to know the FON if it's still there to get a closer date. FON is stamped into the back and viewed when looking down into the lower F hole. Should start with the letter "V" or "U" and then some numbers inked stamped and possible some penciled numbers after that.

[lenf12]

Len, no problem. I will keep you posted. I don't get over there much, by any chance are you going to guitar show this weekend. yes I plan on learning to play the mandolin. Thanks, Ray

Hi again Ray,

Where's the guitar show? I didn't have any plans to go it but might be persuaded if it's not too far. Checking out your recent pictures, there's some serious finish wear to the top but it looks to be structurally sound. No doubt it was owned by an enthusiastic bluegrass player. Plainer maple back than I'm used to seeing on a Gibson F style and that black finish on the back of the neck has been problematic for me in humid Florida weather. I did the speed neck thing on mine a few years ago so it's much silkier and a lot less sticky. It also exposed the figure of the maple neck which I see you have as well. I'd really like to know whether Gibson used maple necks on 50's vintage F-12s or was this part of the F-5 conversion. I thought the F-12 was speced for mahogany necks but I keep seeing maple necks like the F-5 only painted black. Did Gibson change their specifications by the mid 50's or were they simply using what was in stock?

Like f5loar, I too would like to know the FON. That would really nail down the year it was made. Nice mandolin you have there Ray!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Willie Poole]

Len, The F-12 that I had had a three piece neck, that is it had a narrow piece of dark wood running down the length of the neck, I am pretty sure it was made in the early 50`s but am not 100% sure when it was made...I never kept track of the serial number or even knew about a FON at that time....

Willie

[lenf12]

Willie, that's what mine has as well, 3 piece maple/ebony/maple.

129054

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[bluesrays]

Willie, that's what mine has as well, 3 piece maple/ebony/maple.

129054

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Len, sorry been really busy. Its the international Guitar Show in Orlando Central Fl fairgrounds. There are tons of guitars, but just a hand-full of mandolins. My mandolin has been played a ton and has lots of wear. I think its too fancy for me to just learn on, so I'm probably gonna put it up for sale soon on this sight. George appraised this in current condition at $3,000. any thoughts on this price? Thanks, Ray

[f5loar]

The '56 catalog specs say the F12 had mahogany. The 1960 and 1966 catalogs say it's curly maple for the F12 so I figured the change took place around 1958 since catalog can be a year or more in the making to printed form or back then it did. Usually the F12 did get a solid color stain in black or dark brown. Value for a 50's conversion by Wood? $3000 sounds about right if it still has original finish. Usually Randy would at least refinish the top on these conversions unless you asked him not to. If he did I would take another $500 off the $3000.

[lenf12]

Len, sorry been really busy. Its the international Guitar Show in Orlando Central Fl fairgrounds. There are tons of guitars, but just a hand-full of mandolins. My mandolin has been played a ton and has lots of wear. I think its too fancy for me to just learn on, so I'm probably gonna put it up for sale soon on this sight. George appraised this in current condition at $3,000. any thoughts on this price? Thanks, Ray

Hi Ray,

I haven't been to that guitar show since I heard the same critique of it being overwhelmingly guitar oriented (not my main interest anymore) and only a few mandolins. That and I'm too lazy to travel the 3 hours to Orlando from Clearwater. But, it could happen, just not this year.

I don't understand the thinking that "it's too fancy to learn on". Truth is you will always be learning from the time you pick up an instrument until the day you die. Plug a good (fancy) instrument into the earlier part of your learning curve and you will learn faster. What kind of guitar(s) do you own and play? Are they fancy or just entry level? You're not Tony Rice or Eric Clapton so do you settle for entry level guitars until you feel that you're good enough to deserve something "fancy"? I wouldn't wait too long......life and learning are both too short.

Given the condition of your F-12, I'd agree with f5loar on the valuation; $3000 is about right unless it's been refinished and how it was done. If Randy did a total varnish stain and refinish, I would add another $1500 or so. That doesn't appear to be the case with yours however. A lacquer overspray would subtract some value. It looks to me like a previous owner played most of the "fancy" out of the finish of your mandolin leaving only the music to be discovered on the inside. If it were mine, I would keep it and play the heck out of it. Consider your options....

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[bluesrays]

Hi Ray,

I haven't been to that guitar show since I heard the same critique of it being overwhelmingly guitar oriented (not my main interest anymore) and only a few mandolins. That and I'm too lazy to travel the 3 hours to Orlando from Clearwater. But, it could happen, just not this year.

I don't understand the thinking that "it's too fancy to learn on". Truth is you will always be learning from the time you pick up an instrument until the day you die. Plug a good (fancy) instrument into the earlier part of your learning curve and you will learn faster. What kind of guitar(s) do you own and play? Are they fancy or just entry level? You're not Tony Rice or Eric Clapton so do you settle for entry level guitars until you feel that you're good enough to deserve something "fancy"? I wouldn't wait too long......life and learning are both too short.

Given the condition of your F-12, I'd agree with f5loar on the valuation; $3000 is about right unless it's been refinished and how it was done. If Randy did a total varnish stain and refinish, I would add another $1500 or so. That doesn't appear to be the case with yours however. A lacquer overspray would subtract some value. It looks to me like a previous owner played most of the "fancy" out of the finish of your mandolin leaving only the music to be discovered on the inside. If it were mine, I would keep it and play the heck out of it. Consider your options....

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

Sorry its been a long weekend and I'm exhausted. So my analogy might be a little blurred. What I meant by a "little to fancy" is, when you are just learning an instrument your ear does not know the difference between some instruments and another. Because you just don't know how it should sound or could sound. To me a Kentucky mandolin could sound as good as any mandolin. When you just start playing an instrument, you usually start with a budget instrument and then progressively move up. The better you get you tend to realize the difference in quality instruments and its worth the price of moving up and you want something better. Trust me if I was just beginning to learn how to play guitar it would be quite the luxury to go out and buy a 3,000 dollar Martin or Taylor and I'm sure it would make my learning a little easier. At least my bad playing would sound a little better. I own and have owned a lot of guitars and vintage instruments and sometimes its just the cool factor with the instrument. I have an obsession with vintage and instruments in general and wish I could keep this for the rest of my life, but the truth is I'm probably gonna sell this great mandolin and hopefully it will find a good home. Thanks, ray