Gauges for stringing in octaves?

[SincereCorgi]

I was reading that Howard Armstrong issue in Galactic Crossroads and he mentioned how they used to string their mandolins in octaves.

Does anybody have any experience with this? I mean advice for gauges or, I guess, tunings. Do you just swap out two of the pairs to get a high G and D and a low A and E? I guess you gotta recut the nut?

[JeffD]

I have done it with the G and D courses, just to see what it was like. I just substituted an A and E string for the innermost G and D string and tuned it up. I didn't recut anything.

It was stable and sounded great. I used it for ragtime and some messing around, and even played a Christmas set on it.

I would not recommend one go back and forth with this - but to take a second mandolin and leave it with octave stringing.

I suppose for more serious music, or for recording, one might have to recut the nut or do something with the bridge, to perfect the intonation, but really, for what I was doing you could not hear any compromises, in melody strings, harmony double stops, or chords.

Its fun.

[Mandobart]

Octave strings are easilly done with a simple rule of thumb: if you want to tune the string an octave higher, it should be half the diameter of the original. Likewise, to tune an octave lower, it should be twice the diameter of the original. A quick search will reveal dozens of threads on this subject, particularly in the CBOM section. I really like the sound of octave pairs on my mandola, octave mandolin and mandocello. I don't really like the sound on a standard mandolin. It is not necessary to re-slot the bridge and nut just to see if you like the sound of octave pairs. However, if you intend to permanently use this setup you should file the slots to accommodate the new string gage.

[Jim Garber]

I am not sure about Howard Armstrong but I believe that the other blues guys like Yank Rachell used to not only have octaves in the lower two courses but would tune the whole instrument down so fingering a std G chord would give them an E chord since there were many blues tunes in E.

Actually, more info here (http://www.mandozine.com/music/bluesmando/rachell.html):


The mystery of the tuning was immediately solved. Rachell, who grew up tuning the instrument by ear, followed the convention of tuning to fifths, but he often tuned his fourth string to his voice; his range for singing. Thus, the fourth string, which classical violin and mandolin players tune to G (below middle C), Rachell often tuned to E (below middle C), or F or F#. This tuning would place the instrument, if tuned to E, one and one half steps below pitch, and the G chord would sound in E. This tuning accounts for the great bass riffs you hear in Shotgun Blues, where the riff is supported by a droning open fourth string. It also explains the chiming C# above the full chord as he often emphasized the E chord with an open first string (C#).

With this tuning, the key of E is played in the G position, and A is played in the C position, both keys commonly used in the blues, especially among guitar players. Rachell had learned the proper naming of notes and keys, but he ingored the unique tuning and addressed it in a conventional manner. As a result, when he played in the G position, he called it G, even thought his instrument sounded E! It made jamming really challenging. I remember distinctly a jam session we had at the Soup Kitchen in Detroit where I played guitar and acted as chord interpreter for the band. But what a great sound! I had never heard a mandolin hold its own against a guitar in the blues before. The lower pitch really brought the mandolin down into the voice of the guitar and the two blended really well. The mandolin's doubled strings gave it a trill that the guitar lacked, but the two together on the bass really rocked!

of course, all this would involve heavier gauge strings and some adjustment to the nut and bridge.

I did do this on my vintage National mandolin years ago. It sounded a lot better. That mandolin had a 15" scale tho and sounded pretty tinny when strunk with std mandolin gauge strings and tuned to GDAE.

[mandopops]

I don't know about Howard Armstrong (Louie Bluie) doing it, but Carl Martin did. I got to play his Mandolin in back at a gig we did together. It was the 1st time I encountered it.
I strung a Mandolin of mine that way a couple of times. All I did was take an "A" string tuned it to "G" & put it on the top of the G set, & took an "E" string tuned it to "D" & put it on the top of the D set.
It seemed to work fine.
Joe B