Nut Width

[junglejem]

I'm looking at an Eastman MD805, and I'm a little concerned about the 1 2/32" nut width. Isn't that pretty extreme? Anyone have any tips on adjusting to such a narrow fingerboard? Especially for a primarily acoustic guitarist. Or am I missing the point, and the narrow nut might be more comfortable?

Unfortunately, I'm a lefty, so trying it out first isn't really an option.

[Stephen Perry]

Many people like them. I find that setting the strings in each course closer to each other makes for easier playability. I don't have narrow fingertips, plenty of room anyway!

[jclover]

Considering the thread on correcting spelling, I hesitate to do this...even more so, since I have not been in a math class for many decades. But, of course, I am going to do it anyway! 1 2/32 is more commonly known as 1 1/16. Anyway, 1 1/16 is pretty narrow, but is the "Loar spec" I believe. I have nut widths from 1 1/16 up to 1 3/16, and don't have much trouble switching around. For some things, narrow is better, for others, wider is better.

[junglejem]

The Eastman website, Mandolin Store, etc all refer to 2/32, so I was just following suit. Forgive my naïveté.

[sblock]

Unfortunately, there is no real standard for what constitutes a "wide nut." (Wider than WHAT, one might ask?) Some Gibson F5 Loars got as small as 1". Most were around 1-1/16", (= 1-2/32") or perhaps even a trifle wider. No one ever called these "narrow nuts" at the time, of course. But they were narrower than the Gibson A models of the time,

1-3/16" (= 1=6/32") seems to be what many (but not all) folks call a "wide nut" these days (e.g., Collings or Gibson) but that's still pretty narrow compared to some other mandolins. Big Muddy wide necks are 1-1/4" = 1-4/16" = 1-8/32"). Early Gibson A-models were 1-3/16" or just a bit wider.

But just as important (perhaps more so) than the width of the neck and nut is the spacing of the strings. Obviously, you can have a "wide nut" that still feels narrow if the string spacing is not otherwise widened.

There are an awfully large number of great mandolin players out there, many with large hands, that play F5-style mandolins with "narrow" nuts. Mostly, the wide nut phenomenon in F5's seems to be associated with people transitioning from guitar.

[UsuallyPickin]

I like my 1 1/16 and 1 1/8 necks and have no concerns moving back and forth between them either. A wide neck is really only necessary if you have really large hands. If you wear extra large work gloves and they are a good fit try the 1 3/16" necks. R/

[jclover]

The Eastman website, Mandolin Store, etc all refer to 2/32, so I was just following suit. Forgive my naïveté.

No offense, I just hate doing math. :grin:

[robert.najlis]

I believe the Eastmans have nut width of 1 3/32"

[junglejem]

I believe you are correct...1 3/32" I don't know where I got 1 2/32", must be some bad Guinness. 1 3/32" still seems narrow, though.

[Stephen Perry]

I was considering this discussion a little. I should really discuss this on my blog sometime, nut width, so I'll do a draft here. On the Eastman line particularly, the last nut I measured was 1.15" - a bit over the 1.09375" of the 1 3/32" nominal measurement.

Perceived neck width or thickness - perhaps a "chunkiness index" would be a measure - depends upon more than the actual measurement of the nut with calipers. Factors playing into the perceived width appear to primarily be the physical width, the spacing of the strings in each course, the neck and fingerboard thickness, and some specific shape considerations.

The influence of these factors depends upon how the player holds the neck and the instrument. A high neck, thumb on side of neck player will get a different perception than a low neck player who cradles the neck deep towards the base of the thumb.

String spacing oddly plays into the perception of nut width. The first thing we do when a player wants a wider neck is to check the nut. Sometimes just too high an action at the nut makes the neck feel constrained, possibly because of excess tension. Usually we see strings in each course wider apart than they need to be. Fitting a nut with the courses more tightly spaced and even with differential spacing gives more fingertip room and can give some players the perception of a wider neck.

The overall thickness of neck and fingerboard together plays into the feel either directly, for deep in the hand players, or indirectly through determining the contours along the sides of the neck. Necks feel best to us when the very back is straight, and does not form a long curve blending into heel and headstock.

Two particular areas control the perceived width more than seems reasonable at first glance. These are the roll over, if any, of the contour into the playing surface and the zone just below the edge of the binding down perhaps 3/8". A fat feeling neck can be made to feel a bit narrower by rolling the top edge of the side into the fingerboard surface a bit with file and paper, fitting a new nut if required. A chunky feel can sometimes be remedied by reshaping the neck to reduce the width just below the binding, and blending that into the overall shape.

Violin neck influenced designs, such as Eastman's neck profile, generally feel quite slender for their actual dimensions. Instruments with more squared off necks generally feel wider than they are, but are fairly easily made to feel more graceful with rasp, file, and paper. This can be done during the finish removal and wood smoothing referred to as making a "speed neck."

Perceived width can be altered a good deal through relatively inexpensive steps, such as reshaping and respacing strings. We suggest considering these options before trading away from a mandolin that works, but with a neck that doesn't feel optimal.