Trying to date Silvertone Mandolin

[pedxing]

I'm wondering if any of you can help me determine the date and quality of a used Silvertone mandolin I bought on Craigslist. The only numbers (stamps) I can see inside are F41 and 618H379. I took it to a local Guitar Center and the person there told me it has a solid wood top. It has two hairline cracks on either end of one of the f-holes and I'm trying to decide if it's worth repairing or if I should resell and take a loss if I paid too much. Purchase price was $75. My husband is pretty handy and has done some guitar repairs before so most likely we could put in cleats, new bridge, etc if needed and save money on the repairs. Thanks for any assistance you can give me on this decision!

[pfox14]

In 1941, Sears changed the name of their house brand from Supertone to Silvertone, so I am guessing that yours dates from the 40s. It may have a solid spruce top, but it's most likely a pressed top and not carved. These were built to be inexpensive instruments, so they aren't too valuable. I'd say it's worth maybe $200-250 in its current condition.

[kkmm]

Your husband can certainly fix these small cracks and if it has great playability and great sound, it's worth to keep and enjoy it.
IMHO, these two qualities are much more important in a mandolin than its look (Personally, I also like to have good looking instrument probably because I never had a bad looking instrument that feels and sounds good).

[Jeff Mando]

Nice find! This Silvertone was made by Harmony in Chicago, fall of 1941. Model number is H379.

[MikeEdgerton]

The numbers identify it as a Harmony built mandolin that was manufactured in the first half of 1941. That's a Harmony date code. F41=First half 1941. It is all solid woods. Do a happy dance if you get anywhere near $200.00 for it.

The only thing I can see that's missing is the cloud tailpiece cover.

[nickster60]

Pretty nice looking little mandolin, nice find.

[pedxing]

Thanks everyone for all the information, this is so helpful! I am hoping to give the mandolin to my daughter as a gift, knowing we didn't have enough money for a quality sounding "new" mandolin my goal was to find a mandolin that was older, maybe looks a little sketchy (we like say it has stories to tell) but has a beautiful tone. Sounds like this one is worth fixing up and giving a try. Here are my new questions:

1. Where should I buy cleats & glue? (and what glue?)
2. Where could I get a cloud tailpiece cover? (vintage is fine)
3. What strings would you recommend? (I think the ones on there are pretty vintage themselves)
4. Is it possible to tell what wood it is, and if the top is carved or pressed?

Thanks again!

[MikeEdgerton]

In the first place I wouldn't cleat that, I would repair the crack. You don't buy cleats, you make them. The easiest way to get a cloud tailpiece cover is to buy an old Harmony or Kay mandolin and get the cover, then sell the carcass. It's pressed. Without seeing it nobody can tell you what the wood is. They can tell you what they think it is.


Those Waverly cloud tailpieces were made from the teens well into the 70's. They look the same but the later ones are a slightly different size. The hole pattern for the tailpiece should be the same so if you do find one plan on using both parts of the tailpiece.

[Grommet]

For 75 bucks you struck gold, well at least a scrap of tarnished silver. I would suggest having it looked at by a luthier and having a set-up performed. This could cost around $50-$100, but would insure that the instrument plays easily. It looks so much nicer than the later models. Don't worry about the pressed top. Some pretty nice instruments have been built that way. Hard to find that kind of vintage mojo in a stringed instrument at that price today. I hope she enjoys the hick out of it!

Scott

[Steve Lavelle]

I had one of these handed to me on Friday night. L 6073 and N-3 are both stamped onto the inside of the pressed back. Those numbers seem to be a different system that what was discussed previously. maybe made in 73?

[Steve Lavelle]

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[MikeEdgerton]

Yours was made by Kay, the other was made by Harmony. I'd get those strings off until you fix those tailpiece screws. If someone has a catalog page they might be able to get you close. Kay made that same body style for decades. Sears didn't manufacture anything, they jobbed all of their instrument out. Paul Fox in a post above says that sears was using the Silvertone brand name by 1941. I actually think they were using a few years earlier on Radios but judging from the tuners I'd put this in the mid to late 30's maybe very early 40's. Look at the neck joint. That was a common point of failure on Kay mandolins.

[Steve Lavelle]

Thanks, Mike. I wanted to take pictures in the state received, and thankfully the tailpiece situation was appreciated by whoever had it last and all the strings are at almost zero tension. The tuners all turn pretty well. I'll be taking off every thing I can at this point, so I can get it cleaner. Neck joint is very solid, no sign of any gaps or cracks. Some of the binding on the treble side of the neck needs to be re-glued. There is something that is either a scratch or the beginning of a crack where the bass side of the bridge would contact the top. When I took the bridge off I found that someone had put felt directly below the the location of the adjustment screws. When I removed the felt, the bass adjustment stud was protruding just a little on the bass side, which would explain the marks I saw as scratches. The base of the bridge is also cracked on the bass side. Now that the strings are off its easy to see that the nut is broken right where the D string on the treble side crosses it. Frets have very little wear. Any Suggestions where I should source a new bridge ? Is it worth putting a new tail piece on? Alternately, what is the best method for filling that hole at the bottom of the plate so that any screw I put in there will have some purchase when it goes in?

[Steve Lavelle]

Got the tuning machines off, stamped "JAPAN" on the inside. Someone took an engraver and put "570 40 6757" on the treble side machines and "NE(?) W MA N" on the bass side plate (Newman was the owner at some point?). I'm guessing the made in Japan hardware puts it after WWII, more like early sixties, which might mean L6073 is a year month day date? 1960, July 3?

[nmiller]

I'm guessing the made in Japan hardware puts it after WWII, more like early sixties, which might mean L6073 is a year month day date? 1960, July 3?

That logo dates it to 1959-1964. The "L" number is not a date but an internal Kay design number. The Silvertone model number was 758.

[MikeEdgerton]

Those tuners look suspiciously like early tuners used on Gibsons but I'm guessing they were Japanese copies of the same. Good copies as well as most of them that I can recall seeing used Phillips screws. It was all the rage back in the 60's and 70's to engrave your social security number or drivers license number on valuables so you could identify them in the event of a theft. What you have is Newman's SS number. Seems silly now days but back before the computer age nobody worried about identity theft.

[MikeEdgerton]

Any bridge would obviously do but there are some folks on eBay selling some that are similar (but not exact)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-BUT-UNUSED-EBONY-MANDOLIN-BRIDGE-HEIGHT-ADJUSTABLE-/200392415473

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Grover-Acousticraft-Ebony-2-Piece-Archtop-Mandolin-Bridge-w-Base-GB-1992/322872041730?hash=item4b2cac6102:g:RawAAOSw~oFXFBG v

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mandolin-Bridge-New/282798811495?hash=item41d81f6967:g:f1kAAOSwmNxaT~K F

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EBONY-ARCHTOP-GUITAR-OR-MANDOLIN-BRIDGE/302591986930?hash=item4673e34cf2:g:vXUAAOSwu4BVjbI z

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Value-Series-model-1992-Adjustable-Mandolin-Bridge-Ebony/302442782263?epid=1112249990&hash=item466afe9e37:g:W9kAAOSwcg9ZsCIt

There are also folks selling used vintage Kay mandolin bridges but you might be buying a bridge with the same issue as yours.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=rosewood+mandolin+bridge&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xkay+mando lin+bridge.TRS0&_nkw=kay+mandolin+bridge&_sacat=0