Did Monroe make the mando or....

[picksnbits]

Undoubtedly, Bill Monroe had a will to make music and would have done so even if a hollow log and some baling wire were all he had to work with, but...

I've noticed that the strengths of my current mandolin have influenced my playing style and song preferences, so I have to wonder how much Monroe's Loar influenced his playing. I think most of us would say that Loar-era mandolins wouldn't be near so valuable if not for Monroe and the music he made with his, but how much difference did the fact that he was playing a Loar make on his success?

[Darryl Wolfe]

We are probably up for an argument here, but....I have studied Monroes playing for years, and I truly believe the mandolin affected his playing. #One may argue that his style simply changed and would have with any instrument, but...it certainly started changing coincident with acquiring the Loar. #His style became far more aggressive and he started his riffing and chopping behind the music instead of mostly gap fill-ins. Also note the increasing mandolin instrumentals afterwards

[picksnbits]

Darryl,

Are there some good examples of recordings from before and after the Loar purchase that really point out the difference? I've mostly listened to an early Monroe Brothers tape I have and some much later live recordings. There's a pretty noticeable change in style, but a lot of time had passed in between.

[Scotti Adams]

I whole heartedly agree with Darryl...that mando made Monroe...it matched his personality..

[kudzugypsy]

agree with the rest,

it could be stated that TWO factors changed the sound of Monroe. one was the Loar, the other, the band of 1945 w/ Scruggs. almost at that point, monroe left that 'string band' style and never looked back.

there is a world of difference to my ears between his playing with charlie in the late 30's and the BGB'sof the late 40's+on.

monroe had HUGE ears, he was absorbing as much from the players around him as they were from him. if you listen to 'Footprints In the Snow'....that is flat out swing on 'string band' instruments. monroe sounds like a big band guitarist right out of the count basie band.
not to mention the HUGE blues influences....as he said in the Smithsonian interview with Ralph Rinzer...."there wasnt nobody playing blues on the mandolin back then."

it was just a time when all those ideas came together....but the Loar was a very big part of it. can you imagine with Mons ego, if he had to sit up there on stage and let earls flathead rip his head off while he tried in vain to get that F7 to be heard!!! but he knew with the Loar he had the power to step up and get it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Skip Kelley]

I also agree with Darryl. Listen to the Monroe Bros. recordings with the F7 and compare to the F5. His Loar was as aggressive as he was!

[Scotti Adams]

..yea...Im sittin here listening to AOL radio "Bluegrass"....the Monroe Bros are playing.....the pre Loar days...very straight forward playing....mostly tremelo....no down strokes....heavy handed leads or nothing....very generic playing from what we have learned to expect from Mun in the post Loar days.....just think about it..if he never got his hair cut that faithful day in '42(?) Bluegrass mando playing may be a totally different beast.

Good question here. I guess i would agree with Darryl but then again i have some own oppions. Yes i agree that the mandolin is what made Monroe big in musicianship. But did it make him? I would kind of think not. The mandolin was just half of him. When i think of Monroe yeah of course the mandolin goes through my head but something even bigger occures to me first. High Lonesome. His singing of sadness and mournfullness of his hard upbringing. Thats what i think of Monroe. High Lonesome that brings a sound called bluegrass to the people.

But the mandolin was a huge factor but i dont know if i would say it made Monroe. In my head it is debatable. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Scotti Adams]

..well I guess the question begs to be asked...Did the mando make Mun "High & Lonseome" ? or did "The Mando" make mandolin playing what it is today...?

[ethanopia]

I think it was more a one-up-manship contest between him and Scruggs. Seems to me like that flashy Early showed up and he had to compete. The Loar certainly helped but if he kept playing with Charlie and had the Loar I suspect his playing would have remained essentially the same.

Scruggs pushed him, from everything I've heard Monroe did not like to be up staged by anoyone. So my hypothesis is, Scruggs not the Loar.

BBut to me it's all Awesome!

[Old Red]

I hear a big advance in Bill's playing between his October 1941 sessions with the Blue Grass Boys (no banjo) using the F7 and his February 1945 sessions with the Loar, before Lester And Earl joined. #Listen to his aggressive bluesy playing on Rocky Road Blues and Bluegrass Special and compare that to Honky Tonk Swing, the blues mandolin instrumental from the 41 session. #It's true that Bill had been touring extensively during the war years but I think the Loar helped Bill realize a lot of his musical vision. #He was able to get sounds from the Loar that he wasn't getting from the F7. #Bill said he liked the Loar's separation between the notes, which I assume referred to its relative lack of sustain or ring. #Listening to his blues numbers, you can hear how he exploited that quality and made it part of his style.

Andy

[mort]

Would anyone say Louis Armstrong's trumpet made him? I wouldn't. Name any other great of music, I think you'll get the same answer. An instrument is just that, an INSTRUMENT. Yes the Loar was a great mando. But it wasn't the only one around. Those Loars didn't 'make' anyone else did they? Dave Apolon? Did Earl's banjo 'make' him? I don't think so.

I think the instrument fit Monroe. He came to love it's sound and he used it. He said himself that it had meant alot to him and what he wanted to do in Bluegrass music. So I think it did influence him. But, I think he could have made Bluegrass with out that mandolin.
I think most mandolins will tell you what they want to sing. But sometimes you have to MAKE THEM sing something you want to hear. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Mash on it!

[Willie Poole]

Now, now boys and girls....If all of us would go back and listen to some recordings of ourselves when we first started we would see how much we improved year after year also...I think Monroe progressed through experience but also having a top quality sounding mandolin surely helped so I guess one could say they both helped each other....I know when I got my first Gibson I was motivated beyond my wildest dreams and look how good I have gotten on this thing..LOL...Interesting thread....Willie