On a scale of one to ten...

[Ellen T]

Where does your playing fall? We'll assume that 10 is reserved for the high-level pros who are idolized (sometimes ad nauseum) on these forums, and 1 is "my fingers got caught in the strings so I can only type with my right hand today." This is for any type of music, any style of playing.

I'm probably a 3, sometimes on a good day a 4 (and some days a depressing 2).

And if you can't be honest, at least be fun.

[Douglas McMullin]

But my mandolin goes to 11. :mandosmiley:

[Joey Anchors]

I say my playing is a 2, but there is lots of room to improve!

[Tobin]

I have no clue what number I'd use to describe myself. All I know is that I'm better than a lot of folks, but a lot of folks are way better than me. And I tend to view the scale as logarithmic, not linear. Sort of like the Richter scale, where each integer represents a ten-fold improvement/increase from the one below it (or the warp factor, if you're a Star Trek nerd). Mandolin playing is kind of like that. It doesn't take much to get ten times better than you were when you started, and then it takes a little longer to get ten times better than that. But getting ten times better again, well, that takes some time. And to get to a theoretical 10 on the scale is pretty much impossible.

My mandolin proficiency index (MPI) number fluctuates, depending on how many pints of ale I've had.

[jaycat]

On a scale of 1 to 10, I would characterize my playing as "lousy."

[Jim Garber]

5.845 on the Richter scale or 36° celsius...

[Denny Gies]

Somewhere around 6 but, like Douglas, my mandolin goes to 11....or 12. Someday.........

[DavidKOS]

That depends.

Playing Italian music, 8-9.

Playing Bluegrass, 1-2 on a good day.

[foldedpath]

I can make a little money on wedding gigs now and then, and I haven't been thrown out of the local Irish/Scottish session (yet). What does that make me, a five? Dead average? I dunno, it's a strange concept.

My Irish flute playing on the other hand, is a very definite 2.17 on that scale.

[Bob Clark]

If I am being totally honest, my skill number has to be pretty low. But if I am assessing the fun I get from my playing (a more important outcome to measure, in my estimation), that gets a pretty high number, maybe off the scale. It makes me happy so I keep doing it and little-by-little, my skill number has to improve.

[mandroid]

I'm better when not playing with just myself.

[sgrexa]

Well Ellen I have seen you play (I think?), and if you are a 3 on this "scale" of yours I don't think I rate any higher, so a 3 it is!

Sean

[JeffD]

These might help add some objectivity to the discussion.


http://www.coloradorootsmusic.com/playing-levels.htm


http://www.flatpik.com/skill-level

[ianbarton]

Well...Id put myself at a 1 on the 1-10 scale since i just started playing a little over a month ago, but In Jeff's Colorado Roots playing levels, I'm a 2...so I am going to go with that! I appreciate the Spinal Tap references, and I found this earlier today:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/tab/stonehenge.txt

[Jeff Mando]

Well, either you need a lot more practice or you are being very modest.....

I'm guessing the latter.

[Jack Roberts]

2+3i

[F-2 Dave]

3.14159265359........., mmmmmmmmm, pie.

[f5loar]

I'm a 10 but only because I know quite a few 11 and 12s. Oh wait do you have be able to play "Dawg" music to be a 10? Then I'm a 9.

[JeffD]

I'm a 10 but only because I know quite a few 11 and 12s. Oh wait do you have be able to play "Dawg" music to be a 10? Then I'm a 9.

:)

[Ellen T]

I appreciate all the comments. This is just for fun, not a serious self-evaluation. But, since there are so many levels of players here, from beginning amateur to heavy-duty professionals, I thought it would be a little interesting to see what the range is.

Sgrexa, I have never played outside my own house nor video'd myself, so it's not me you have seen, unless it was in an alternate universe where I am more talented.

[JeffD]

I am not sure that is the ladder I want to climb. Except in perhaps an oblique way. Not for its own sake.

I have decided I want to be fun to play music with - and yea, the better I am the more folks I will be able to play with. But also the more musical, the more expressive, spontaneous, capable of interesting harmonies and counter melodies, more able to sight read and pick up by ear - not just tunes but whole genres, hear and guess where the other person is going, lots of things that aren't exclusively more accurate at faster speeds.

Learning to play "Brilliancy (http://blip.tv/dusty-wrights-culture-catch/sam-bush-one-take-brilliancy-5326547)", for example, or Tico Tico (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw-apOoP2q8)... I dunno. Wonderful tunes as they are, technical challenges of merit, where and when would I play them? In what way does being able to play them make people more interested in playing with me? I mean it turns heads, but does it welcome compadres? Does it encourage folks step in and join me? Or to stand and watch me?

[Bertram Henze]

...where and when would I play them? In what way does being able to play them make people more interested in playing with me? I mean it turns heads, but does it welcome compadres? Does it encourage folks step in and join me? Or to stand and watch me?

That's one of the good sides of sets in ITM: I have a few special tunes nobody else plays, but I don't hide them in a session; I play one through alone (or with some daring good accompanist who picks it up quickly) and top it up with one or two tunes everybody else can join in. After some time ( a few years or so), some of the others might suddenly be able to play the special tune with me.

As for my level:

124787

[jshane]

I like JeffD's post above, and Bertram's response.

My level...... hmmm.

In a previous life I studied music theory and tried to make my living playing guitar. The ever-present egos (mine and others) and the influence of money (mostly the lack thereof-- how many straight meals of Ramen can a human eat?) soured me on music for years. Then I took up mandolin. On reading this post, at first pass I would have characterized myself as a 2 or 3, but I read the "objective" links above, and they indicate a more advanced level. Bottom line is that I guess I dont care so much. I use to play for the enjoyment of others-- now I play strictly for my own pleasure.

AND... I agree with JeffD.... a LOT of that enjoyment comes from playing with others, so becoming a better player enhances the number of people and situations where that can happen. (but I still enjoy playing Brilliancy and La Arboleda and the occasional fingerbuster 'cause they are fun!)

[Bruce Cech]

Ellen T--good to see another closet mandolinist. I have never played outside my home nor for any audience other than my wife. She doesn't have a choice since she is a bed ridden invalid. But I do enjoy playing for my own pleasure. Hard to rate myself even in fun but I guess I could stretch it and say I'm a 1.

[OldSausage]

I am a 10. That doesn't mean there aren't many people who play better than me, but as I'm rating myself I can see no advantage in withholding points.

[Bertram Henze]

I am a 10. That doesn't mean there aren't many people who play better than me, but as I'm rating myself I can see no advantage in withholding points.

:)) Now there's a happy man at peace with himself.

My own approach is a variation of this. Whenever I hear someone play better than I do, I think "Yes, but I am Bertram Henze and you're not". :grin:

[Astro]

Solid 1.5 here.

My mother loves me.

[OldSausage]

Learning to play "Brilliancy (http://blip.tv/dusty-wrights-culture-catch/sam-bush-one-take-brilliancy-5326547)", for example, or Tico Tico (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw-apOoP2q8)... I dunno. Wonderful tunes as they are, technical challenges of merit, where and when would I play them? In what way does being able to play them make people more interested in playing with me? I mean it turns heads, but does it welcome compadres? Does it encourage folks step in and join me? Or to stand and watch me?

It would make you more fun to play with for people who want to play Brilliancy or Tico Tico.

I've found it very empowering to learn pieces that are outside my genre and comfort zone. And playing tunes like these that get the listener interested - well, it's hard to see what's wrong with that.

[Ron McMillan]

Even a light-hearted self-assessment is surely open to conceit. I know I have been intrigued by the definitive nature of some members' strong opinions on a variety of subjects, so much so that they make me think they must be very, very good players.

Then, when they appear on video clips, I am taken aback by how below-average they are. So below-average that, rather than leaving me for dead, they only leave me in the shade. ;)

[James Rankine]

Anyone playing brilliancy can be my picking buddy.

Mandolin a 5 on a good day with a prevailing wind
Tenor Banjo 4
Irish Bouzouki 4
Guitar 4
Piano 1.8
Piano accordion 0.8

If only I'd got rid of all my other instruments 25 years ago when I first picked up the mandolin I might be a 10 by now.

[Rodney Riley]

I'm right there between a stepped on cat's tail and fingernails on a chalkboard.... 2.0

[OldSausage]

Even a light-hearted self-assessment is surely open to conceit. I know I have been intrigued by the definitive nature of some members' strong opinions on a variety of subjects, so much so that they make me think they must be very, very good players.

Then, when they appear on video clips, I am taken aback by how below-average they are. So below-average that, rather than leaving me for dead, they only leave me in the shade. ;)

What have strong opinions on a variety of subjects got to do with how well people pick?

[Astro]

What have strong opinions on a variety of subjects got to do with how well people pick?

So true. Some of my dumbest friends are also among the best musicians I know.

And Sausage is really, really, good.

[OU1]

I would say I am in between a 4-5.5. I have never played in a band or in front of anyone other than my immediate family. My brother plays guitar and nephew plays banjo. I have a ton of fun....but have not had the guts to do it in front of anyone else. I know my weakness areas...sometimes hard to know what good looks like when it is just me. Anyway...I like the question and I liked reading all the responses.

[Astro]

I would say I am in between a 4-5.5. I have never played in a band or in front of anyone other than my immediate family. My brother plays guitar and nephew plays banjo. I have a ton of fun....but have not had the guts to do it in front of anyone else. I know my weakness areas...sometimes hard to know what good looks like when it is just me. Anyway...I like the question and I liked reading all the responses.

Well I hate to tell you this but when you go to playing out in front of others, you will drop at least 4 points.

[OU1]

Well I hate to tell you this but when you go to playing out in front of others, you will drop at least 4 points.

You might be absolutely right....I'm decent around the family....don't know about the rest of it. I think I need to suck it up and test the waters.....

[Ron McMillan]

What have strong opinions on a variety of subjects got to do with how well people pick?

Guilty as charged. Guilty of imagining that people who think they know everything about playing the mandolin might actually be pretty good.

[Randi Gormley]

By the scale in the first link, probably a 1 or 2 since I don't play chords or do solo runs. On the other hand, I can keep up with Brian Conway or John Whelan and know probably half the tunes they play during the sessions here, and I can pick up new tunes on the fly during workshops, so that puts me at a solid intermediate level inching toward competent. I can start sets during a gig and my husband and I (when I'm not so terrorized I can hardly hold my pick) have on occasion played duets during concerts and other performances; I can mostly play accurately with the orchestra during the classical workshops I've attended but would never volunteer to solo...the best I can do in a bluegrass setting is to hold my strings damped with my fretting hand and whack my pick across the dead strings to the rhythm. I haven't heard any of those tunes so can't even vamp ... so I guess within my own competencies I'm a nice solid 5 to 7.

[AlanN]

It really depends on the tune, who I'm playing with, time of day, what I had for breakfast, etc. I sat with Akira Otsuka recently. We picked:

- Delinquent Minor, his original number in the Dawg vein (what a great tune...). I fumbled, as I was un-practiced on it
- Kentucky Mandolin. He was a bit in the background, as he admits he's doesn't do Monroe.

In terms of the OP scale, I'm Somewhere Between.

[OldSausage]

Guilty as charged. Guilty of imagining that people who think they know everything about playing the mandolin might actually be pretty good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ6Af1HiSU8

[bratsche]

So true. Some of my dumbest friends are also among the best musicians I know.

And Sausage is really, really, good.

I see what you did there! :)):))


I have no idea how I'd "rate" myself, I've never even thought about it! I'm okay at what I like to do, and am always improving my technique with practice, as it should be. I don't really have a desire to play with others - I have my work where I do that, and playing mandola has always been my escape from work. Play for others, yes, I'll do that in small settings. I have about 2.5 hours worth of Bach partita or cello suite movements committed to memory. So I play tons of chords (very necessary with Bach), but I never bothered to figure out what most of them are. Needless to say, I'd be useless trying to play from a chord chart! Linear melodies are pretty easy for me to pick up quickly, though. I occasionally write my own arrangements of tunes I like. For this, I noodle around by ear (sounding classical or baroquish in style, no big surprise there!) until I find harmonies and ideas worth expanding on and writing down. The study of music theory has always been unappealing to me, though.

To sum it up, I'd probably rate myself a 7 or 8 at some things and a 0 at others. Such is life, I guess!

bratsche

[Timbofood]

When I play without strings, I am better, never miss a note!
Other than that, I can't say.

[James Rankine]

Guilty as charged. Guilty of imagining that people who think they know everything about playing the mandolin might actually be pretty good.

It would all be more entertaining if we submitted videos and rated each other:)
At my work the latest fad is "360 degree appraisal" where your colleagues anonymously rate your performance and then you are invited to reflect on the scores compared with your own self assessment. Hideous - is it any wonder I dream of being a professional musician. I adopt old sausage's self assessment approach- if you don't believe in yourself how can you expect others to do so.

[Bertram Henze]

At my work the latest fad is "360 degree appraisal" where your colleagues anonymously rate your performance and then you are invited to reflect on the scores compared with your own self assessment.

I find the self assessment alone hard to do if not ridiculous by design. There is that frequent question: "what is your strength, what is your weakness?" I like to answer "My strength: I don't brag about my modesty. My weakness: I can't shut up about my strength"

[High Lonesome Valley]

String Bean, the great mountain banjo player, said something like if you can't find it in the first position, it ain't worth playing. Simple is best.

Having played, taught, and produced for a little while now, I try to instruct players that 1. style, rather than speed, is the most important thing, 2. find out what you're good at playing and concentrate on that and, 3. be yourself, find your own thang.

I was blessed to be backstage with Genesis selling guitars in Philly. The guys in the band were all warming up with incredible speed fusion jazz. This was the 80's, and they were warming up on breakthrough music.

When I got out in the audience for the concert, however, I noted an existential absence of speed, fusion, jazz, etc. Genesis' music was simple, easily playable, easier to listen to. It related to even the most musically undeducated in the audience.

What I learned was simple and slow is good. It sounds good when recorded, it plays good in a bad hall and great in a good hall.

If you aren't a speed demon, so what? That little 8 year old kid can whoop all our butts anyway when it comes to speed.

If you can't play a lot of notes at the same time, so what? Play three great stylish notes to another person's 20, you'll come out sounding great.

To tell the truth, I think only musicians are impressed with super speed, super sophistication. Our listening audience, most non-musicians, might be left behind in technical wizardy. Seems like most folks just like good, easy-to-listen-to, easy playing music.

So don't think you're a playing dweeb if you aren't the fastest, most technical, etc. Make your own style within your abilities, practice and practice it some more, and you just might find you're better than you thought.

[catmandu2]

What you need are fewer possibilities--that are more interesting -Eno

[pheffernan]

If you aren't a speed demon, so what? That little 8 year old kid can whoop all our butts anyway when it comes to speed.

Discussions of speed always remind me of the late George Carlin:

XWPCE2tTLZQ

I find that playing speed is much like spicy food. Most people aim for a level one notch below the one they can't handle.

[Willie Poole]

When I start out at night in a bar room, I am an 8 but by the time I finish I am a 10, at least to the drunks that are still there....When I play on a festival or some serious show I am about an 8 but only because I make up the set list and really care about not getting too fancy.....If not playing Dawg music means I have to subtract points then I am a 7, I reckon....I started to say I was a 10 because a fellow once told me not to put yourself down, there will be plenty of others that will do that for you....

Willie

[bigskygirl]

I don't think I can rate myself on a scale as some days I'm good, others not so much. However, I'm having fun learning and meeting others who share my passion of music.

All I'm certain of is that I'm moving forward, maybe not at a pace I desire but after a year playing the mandolin I can hold my own on some tunes and others I just need to sit back and listen and learn.

[Tom Coletti]

Whatever I end up ranking myself as, I'm sure it's Numberwang.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH-cXBhkl-E

--Tom

[lflngpicker]

I am a 2 on technical playing but I can play chords and small runs to connect chords enough to perform songs that I accompany myself singing. As a "chorder" for singing, I would give myself a 7 because I can play major and minor chords in a number of keys to accompany country, folk, rock, blues and gospel songs. I am working on tab that is posted here to improve my abilities with instrumental music. The guitar skills I have made the transition for using a mandolin in the band at church and for singing solos at the rest home I visit twice each month a quicker transition. I think I am an anomaly because I use the mandolin to sing rather than to play instrumental styles. I am in awe of those that can-- you are my heroes!

[JeffD]

I have no idea what the average mandolin player sounds like. I have heard so few mandolin players. I am usually one of two mandolin players at most jams, and I always know the other player real well. At mandolin workshops, the few I have attended, its hard to tell because other than the material at hand, you don't hear much (except the show offs).

And then there is that show off effect. In casual short term contact with folks at workshops or jams at festivals, where you are unlikely to meet these folks again, you hear someone play something brilliantly, just nailing it, and you have no idea that he has been practicing that thing for 24 years, to the near exclusion of everything else. You know, regardless of what my level is, there is not much I couldn't learn to do given great gobs of time and nothing else to focus upon. You hear someone play one tune and you have no idea how "good" they are. Except on that one tune.

But I do come away feeling like, oh, ok, I'm not much I guess.

I do check in to the tune of the week folks now and again, and poke around tunes I like.

I would bet the heavy tune of the week participants and those who are in the Mike Marshall Artist Works School of Mandolin and watch the video clips have a much better idea what average might be.

Measuring myself against myself - I am much further along than I ever thought I would ever be, and yet there is a whole lot that I wish I could do.

Calling myself the middle of the pack is like identifying yourself in the center because the line stretches infinitely on either side.

So, I have not much basis for self assessment. Now I can tell you I enjoy the potatoes out of it. Every. Single. Time.

[Jeffff]

Among the people I play with I am the best mandolin player because I am the only mandolin player, I am a 10.

Among mandolin players.... I mostly suck.

Neither of those ratings inhibits my enjoyment of whacking away on the mandolin.

[sgrexa]

Until I recently started to focus and learn some challenging pieces (of course, this is music I enjoy and have so for some time) I hadn't realized how stagnant my playing had become. I was basically noodling around on the same old licks and songs over and over again for over ten years! In less than a year, I have finally progressed to a point where I am starting to feel good about my playing again. I still have a long way to go, but it is fun, challenging, and the possibilities seem only as limitless as my imagination and determination.

Sean

PS- Ellen I had you mixed up with another Ellen, but I like my 3 and I am going to stick with that!

[JeffD]

All I can say is that ever since I started to focus and learn some challenging pieces ... my playing remained stagnant.

I think this is important. And I know I feel the least competent when pushing myself on a new tune or new exercise or whatever. So the paradox is the better I feel about how I am doing overall, the less I am probably pushing myself, and probably less progressing, and the less satisfied I am, the more I am pushing myself, and hopefully progressing.

[outsidenote]

Mike Doyle (http://www.mikedoyle.com/ - for the noncognoscenti) says that the best surfer in the water is the one who is having the most fun. So I guess I'm pretty good at surfing and mandolin. As long as nobody hears me and I don't "snake" anyone else in the water.

[JeffD]

It would make you more fun to play with for people who want to play Brilliancy or Tico Tico.

I've found it very empowering to learn pieces that are outside my genre and comfort zone. And playing tunes like these that get the listener interested - well, it's hard to see what's wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with it at all. I am only saying in my experience those "solo set pieces" that showcase brilliance, are less inclusive. They are a good challenge, and can be fun to learn and good to know. Like having some Bach pieces under your belt.

And for a performance either solo or with backup they are great.

But in terms of fulfilling my prime directive of being more fun to play with - I don't see how they contribute.

An example of what I think of as an inclusive piece - Down Home Waltz. Its so pretty, the chords are not too crazy, and folks who play seem to naturally want to play along. It is inviting.

A piece that is more brilliant, but still inviting, would be something like Gravel Walk, Found Harmonium, or others like that, finger busters perhaps at first, but tunes that just sound like they would be fun to jump in on.

If I had a dime for everyone that wanted to play Tico Tico with me, or even to hear me play it, well I wouldn't even have a dime.

[Petrus]

Probably a 2. I keep thinking of this little phenomenon:


The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias manifesting in unskilled individuals suffering from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, people with true ability tend to underestimate their relative competence based on the erroneous or exaggerated claims made by unskilled people. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect


I do well by my own standards but my style is not standard practice. As my fingers are always getting in the way of each other in certain chords, I've pretty much given up on certain chord shapes and stick to the simple ones involving barres and semi-barres and sus4's where I can just fret two adjacent strings, giving me a power chord of the root and the 5th, with no hassle. I can do two-finger chords if the higher note is on a higher fret than the lower one; otherwise, I find the lower-string finger is always getting in the way. I.e., I'm okay with G, C, E, and D, but not G7.

I have also found a lot of old tunes just sound alike to me or don't interest me that much, so I end up learning specific modules or phrases in them, then moving the phrases around to make tunes which work just as well. I know one Irish style jig and just repeat the rhythm, varying the notes here and there, and it works well enough. I also learned Bach's Minuet in G a long time ago; I'll play that, then mix the notes and rhythm up and make new quasi-baroque sounding tunes using only those notes.

I also use the "hundred monkeys on a hundred typewriters" style of playing -- you know, like in the old anecdote where if you get enough monkeys typing on enough typewriters at random they'll eventually produce the works of Shakespeare, just from the law of statistics. :grin:

[Bertram Henze]

I also use the "hundred monkeys on a hundred typewriters" style of playing -- you know, like in the old anecdote where if you get enough monkeys typing on enough typewriters at random they'll eventually produce the works of Shakespeare, just from the law of statistics. :grin:

At least, this offers an answer to the open riddle who really wrote Shakespeare's plays. It might also encourage us to noodle more and thereby produce world-class compositions eventually. (Joking aside, the composer of this tune (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnV2TMVh6Vk), Ian Hardie, wrote on the published sheet music for it: "this tune emerged when rehearsing with Jock Tamson's Bairns at Rod Paterson & Catriona Rioch's house in Perthshire". That's what I call a happy accident.)

[Jim]

6 and probably always will be no matter how hard I try. I fit the advanced or expert levels as described by Flatpicker .com or the Colorado roots music skill level on both guitar and mandolin. I can hang in most jams and pickin circles and get payed to play sometimes. People seem to enjoy my music and I mostly like it myself. However when I listen to players like Steffy or Bush or Marshall ect. or to some of these kids that win the contests there is such a huge gulf between what I can do and what they can that I can never see myself as anything but a little better than average, 6. And that 6 took me 47 years of playing to achieve. Not complaining I play because I love it and learn something new often. It's great to hear those 10s, gives ya something to try for.

[Petrus]

At least, this offers an answer to the open riddle who really wrote Shakespeare's plays. It might also encourage us to noodle more and thereby produce world-class compositions eventually.

Unfortunately what they don't tell you in the anecdote is that it would take something like 10^100 years for the monkeys to type the works of Shakespeare purely at random, which is a few billion billion times longer than the history of the universe so far. But if you're only going for a song with a few notes it probably will be a lot quicker. :cool:

[Pasha Alden]

Hi Dan and others!
Well, I too will rate myself less of a technical player. I give myself a three. Though like Dan I play chords, some 7ths, majors minors, starting to manage things like C# F# major minor well, 7ths and minors. Working more on diminished chords. I accompany myself. I was told by my former guitar teacher from school many moons ago that my chord progression was not half shoddy. So I give myself an 8 for accompanying others. Working furiously to further improve my tremolo, my solo playing. For that I am finding pentatonic scales and just all finger exercises is starting to assist neatly.

Also working on playing light classical mandolin with the Suzuki range for violin. The reason: no mandolin music available in braille. So most music learnt by ear. Though you solo players and Classical players of note a shout out you are the best.



















Also starting to manage double stops well enough, did some on Brown Eyed Girl.

In addition to this seemingly long post, I thank some mandolin players for there remarks in this thread, they serve as encouragement to play for enjoyment and measure against one's own ability. Now my confession to the mandolin players:
For a while I almost stopped playing mandolin feeling my playing was stagnating. Very sad. I erroneously compared myself to everyone on the café who played classical music, brilliant jazz. Very silly I know. I mean I have not even played for two years, had no access to a mandolin teacher, no music, apart from that which I learnt by ear. Also adapting my accompaniment score to 6: I can work more on varying my playing; string separation: picking patterns etc.
Happy playing all!

[journeybear]

I don't know where I'd rank myself, if I were to take this seriously. I tend to be pretty humble about myself - just smarter that way, run into fewer dirty looks and upturned noses. So that would skew my estimates downward; to allow for that I have to force myself to set the ranking higher. Which may not be that far from the truth, anyway. In some contexts, I am the best - best in my family, best in my band, best among my friends, best in my neighborhood, best in town, best in the Keys as far as I know. I am definitely best at playing my music, the music I like to hear, my songs. No one plays them better than I do; heck, hardly anyone even tries. But as others have said, there's always room for improvement, and I know I hit the occasional clunker now and then. So I'll give myself a 9. Besides, it's my favorite integer. ;)

[AlanN]

there is not much I couldn't learn to do given great gobs of time and nothing else to focus upon.

Disagree. Some pickers are just wired differently, the way their right hand works, the groove they get, the whole thing. If you can 'learn' it, good on ya.


You hear someone play one tune and you have no idea how "good" they are. Except on that one tune.

I find that if I hear one tune from someone, or see/hear them pick for 5 seconds, I can tell what they can do on mostly anything.

[James Rankine]

As others have already said, in order to make progress you have to want to improve something, in other words be unhappy with the state of your playing. This applies to the great players of the Thile/Marshall ilk. Mike Marshall said on one of his atristwork's videos that he had recently been talking to Chris Thile and Chris had said he was unhappy with his playing at the moment. So whilst we would mark him 10 on the scale he would probably mark himself down. Reaching 10 is like trying to travel at the speed of light, the closer you approach it the harder it is to make progress towards it so that 10 reaches off into infinity. So no one then can reach 10 on the scale, apart from old sausage who is deservedly there and now relaxing in his smoking jacket and slippers :)

[Austin Bob]

This is actually pretty hard for me to answer truthfully to myself. On some areas, like singing, I'm barely a 3 on a good day. Usually worse. I read music at a Dick and Jane level, so maybe a 3 there as well.

Songwriting is another area that needs improvement. I've composed a few ok melodies, but the words always fail me. I could never have enough confidence to write something like Silly Love Song and think anyone would ever want to hear it.

Theory.. so so. I get the easy stuff, but when you start talking advanced concepts like modes, my eyes roll back in my head and I say, "just play it and I'll follow along."

What I am really good at is following others, and filling in the blank spaces with color. Maybe a 7 or even an 8 at times.

And today all the other instrumentalists were off from the choir today, so I lead the entire congregation of about 250 with one guitar. I had to step out of my comfort zone to do it, but it went extremely well. I only missed one chord change, but kept the rhythm up so no one even noticed. Several people told me afterwards what a great job I did, so it must have been ok.

I'd guess all in all, I'd rank myself as a solid 6, with a bullet.

[JeffD]

Disagree. Some pickers are just wired differently, the way their right hand works, the groove they get, the whole thing. If you can 'learn' it, good on ya.

I guess what my experience is that the problems I have playing some tunes or some pieces, are problems I have no doubt I could work out or work through. Some would take immense amounts of work, (like some of the Bach), but I have not hit anything that was in another league with no path between me and competence. As long as you don't require me to learn it fast, and can give me enough time.




I find that if I hear one tune from someone, or see/hear them pick for 5 seconds, I can tell what they can do on mostly anything.

I am not sure how you can say that without making an assumption about how "evenly applied" their abilities are. I know a few folks who excel at a small handful of tunes, or maybe just two, really excel, but are poor at just about everything else. If you were to hear them on the stuff they have worked out, you might be lulled into thinking they were recording artists.

I don't know how one gets that way, or what motivates someone to go after music that way, but I know more than one person like that, and have thought it was perhaps more common.

I would not find what you say at all implausible if we were talking about improvising, and listening to someone jump in on a tune. But just hearing someone play his favorite, I dunno.

[fatt-dad]

4. I'm shooting for 5 though. . .

f-d

[Dave Cohen]

Can there be negative numbers?

[Petrus]

I am not sure how you can say that without making an assumption about how "evenly applied" their abilities are. I know a few folks who excel at a small handful of tunes, or maybe just two, really excel, but are poor at just about everything else.

It's very much like a foreign language. I can say "I can't understand you" in six different languages. :grin:

[JeffD]

It's very much like a foreign language. :

There is something to that. If someone speaks a phrase in English, native speakers can tell how well that person is going to speak English on every other English phrase he utters. It is unlikely, however, that a person will work on a single phrase so much that they get it right enough to fool a native, and yet can't speak any other phrase fluently.

And I wonder if the folks I know who are like this are real exceptions. Could well be.

But it has given me comfort anyway, when I hear an amateur picker like me, showing off by himself in the campgrounds, and absolutley nailing it, it has given me comfort to think that it may be the only tune he nails like that. :( Don't take my only comfort. :crying:

[Bertram Henze]

Don't take my only comfort. :crying:

Rest assured that, although I play approx. 60 Irish tunes reasonably well, there are thousands I can't play at all :grin:

[Ellen T]

For something that I threw out as a lightweight topic, this has elicited some very thoughtful and thought-provoking replies.

I'm struck by the recent posts about being able to assess a player's ability by one tune (or not). I watch The Voice and I used to watch a few other singing competitions, and I've noticed that there are some singers who are so impressive in their initial appearance and are selected to continue, but then fall apart quickly because they cannot pick up a new style or, in some pathetic cases, a new song in their own genre. Apparently they have practiced one or two songs to perfection, and that's it. So, it seems possible that the same could be true for players. I know I have a handful of tunes that I can play very well, and I start and end my practice with those because it keeps my head in a good place for the next time. It's easy to get too comfortable, though, and I try to learn new stuff, but not as frequently as I should. My own number will probably always be low, partly because I just play for fun and I'm too lazy to really work at it - for which I do not apologize; we do not all have to aspire to greatness. Also, my fingers are just not as accurate as they used to be. I used to be a very good typist, but I've noticed lately that I make a lot of errors, so I think my brain-to-finger skills are going haywire in general as I get older, and speed is another issue that age affects. If I had been a fast player for years, it might be different, but there are some tunes that I am pretty good at that I just can't play faster no matter how many times I try, and I think it is just physical. And, the memory isn't what it used to be, so as much as I try to memorize pieces, I still have to reinvent the same ol' wheel more often than I would like.But it's ok, because it's not a contest I'm trying to win anyway. On the plus side, while I am sitting there trying to think of the tune I wanted to start, and not finding it in the mouldy rolodex of my mind, I sometimes just start playing at random and think, "Oh, that sounds pretty cool," and wonder if I have it in me to create a tune. Of course, it could be something I already know but don't know I know it!

Thanks to all of you for sharing so much about yourselves and your playing! Each of you is a 10 in personality, that's for sure.

[Randi Gormley]

Ha! JeffD -- re: speaking a phrase in a foreign language well enough to fool natives. I once was standing in line in an airport in Morocco waiting to get on the plane (many, many years ago) and the guy looking at the paperwork looked at my job (journalist) and asked me in his language what paper I worked for and I couldn't understand a single word he said. I said "pardon?" in what appeared to be a perfect French accent because the French guy behind me said "nom de journal, mam'sel" at which point I, in my very Ohioan accent, answered the question. And the French guy behind me then said something to me in English as we walked toward the plane. Obviously a fluke, but your comment brought it to mind!

[9lbShellhamer]

I'm a 3.

I think most of us are never capable of reaching a 10/10 due to natural innate restrictions we are born with due to ears, dexterity, etc.

I think most of us are capable of reaching 9/10 which is probably where most of the famous players we idolize are with the exception of a few greats...

In running it's like this... some runners can train and run a 2:05 marathon. (...Like 20 people in the world. The 10/10 folks)

Most people start off running and do a 5.5 hour marathon, (Like hundreds of thousands of people), (the 3/10 folks) but with incredibly hard work they are capable of running more and more and eventually lowering their time to reach 100% of their potential and eventually run a 3 hour marathon, (reaching 8 / 10 status) .

It's like those runners go from a 3 to an 8 or 9.

It's the age old debate of inborn talent vs hard work.

In running, it's easy to quantify. Just look at historical data, and determine your finishing percentile over a large pool of data and find the average.

Music is art however. It's not quantifiable as easily.



That made since to me at least...;)

[jshane]

This turned out to be a much more interesting discussion than I thought it might be.

Thanks.

[JimRichter]

5.845 on the Richter scale or 36° celsius...

Richter scale? I created the Richter scale :)

[JeffD]

Richter scale? I created the Richter scale :)

:)) Yea, boy did you.

[Bill Clements]

5...on the Bassoon.
As far as my mandolin playing is concerned...ever wonder where the inspiration for "Mandolin For Dummies" came from? :mandosmiley:

[Violingirl]

Mandolin? -3 as I just got mine and have not had much time to practice
Violin? 8 as I have been playing for a long time both professionally in an orchestra and various other groups.

Always, always room for improvement-learning to play Irish fiddle now which is a whole new world for me and very different in technique.

[Jack Roberts]

At least, this offers an answer to the open riddle who really wrote Shakespeare's plays....)

Don't get me started!

[Petrus]

There is something to that. If someone speaks a phrase in English, native speakers can tell how well that person is going to speak English on every other English phrase he utters. It is unlikely, however, that a person will work on a single phrase so much that they get it right enough to fool a native, and yet can't speak any other phrase fluently.

That's logical, but one thing I've learned in my career as an international man of mystery (i.e. backpacker on the hostel circuit) is that some phrases really do come in handy more than others, and you focus on those primarily. Like "Where is the restroom?," "I'm very sorry," and "I don't understand your language, I only learned enough of it to say this sentence." :grin:

("Where is the toilet" is a particularly useful one as it avoids me having to point at my crotch, which can lead to embarrassing misunderstandings.)


But it has given me comfort anyway, when I hear an amateur picker like me, showing off by himself in the campgrounds, and absolutley nailing it, it has given me comfort to think that it may be the only tune he nails like that. :( Don't take my only comfort. :crying:

I think it's a little different in music, because some tunes are just more interesting to some people and they will prefer to spend more of their time on those. Unless you plan on playing for a living, where you'll need to acquire a standard repertoire (you know someone's always going to ask for Happy Birthday, for instance), an amateur tends to focus on favorite tunes. Anyway I do.

My other fallback is the "experimental music" dodge. If you can't play music, play experimental music, that's one of my mottoes. (Replace with "avant garde" as needed.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hJ8LFMCbI

BTW, no disrespect to Jandek. I enjoy Jandek.

[JeffD]

Yea experimental music. :) I am a ten on any kind of music where its hard to tell if I played it right.

[journeybear]

Absolutely. This is one reason I've managed to get by doing what I do for as long as I have. First of all, most people have never heard or seen a mandolin before, so they have no frame of reference for what it's supposed to sound like. Then there's the way I play, which is probably different from most other players, so even if someone in the audience has some familiarity with the instrument, I still leave them in the dust. And that's the kicker - play so fast or just keep moving so they don't have a chance to linger on a note or phrase long enough to figure out what's really going on. Which may or may not be good, on some sort of empirical level. Yes, yes - nothing is quite so much fun as hoodwinking the trusting ignorant public. Thank goodness it's only music, and not something that really matters, or is important. ;)

[Bertram Henze]

It is unlikely, however, that a person will work on a single phrase so much that they get it right enough to fool a native, and yet can't speak any other phrase fluently.

Upon my first visit to Paris, France - devoid of any knowledge of French (which is totally bad if you're in Paris) - I learned one phrase in advance: "Combien?" ("How much?"). I could say it alright and got lots of answers, but then found out I didn't know any French numbers and therefore never understood those answers (what happened to me in restaurants there is another story).
So that is like you start a tune in a session, everybody join in and you have to stop and admit you just could play the first 2 measures. It is not so unlikely. It happens.

[Astro]

RE: "My other fallback is the "experimental music" dodge. If you can't play music, play experimental music, that's one of my mottoes. (Replace with "avant garde" as needed.)

Wow Petrus, you're a genius. But better than actually having to play "experimental music", just be sure to go on after Jandek and you should be very welcomed.

After watching that, I'm raising my rating from a 1.5 to a 2.o.

And just be glad Jandek doesn't play banjo. And at least he does his wash.

[AlanN]

Jandek makes Lou Reed sound like a melifluous nightingale.

Wow.