Solid body mandolin, ACOUSTIC sound, not electric!

[Lord of the Badgers]

Following last night's gig, and four d string breaks over two mandos...(:crying:) we had a discussion about the plugged in sound of my gear. the K&Ks we're having trouble with since the preamp wasn't behaving. the headway pickup - no bother - straight in, awesome sound - full, rounded, loud.

Anyway, some points to debate there, but the main question is... I'm thinking that to cut down poss feedback in such loud gigs I could maybe consider a solid body with headway/good piezo in, since in those gigs, I'm not worried about "the piezo sound" as much.

I think I do need a backup (pref oval hole) mando with the preferred no-fuss option of the headway. I would've gone collings MTO but it's an adjustable bridge, so the headway option isn't on.

My first thoughts were Paul Hathway (http://www.paulhathway.com/solid-electrics) as it's affordable right now... and yeah.. it's solid body.

Thoughts on my post gig tired ramblings folks?

Feel free to question & deride... :)

[Daniel Nestlerode]

If you want someone to make you one, have a chat with Gary Nava in Norwich (I think) or AJ Lucas in Lincoln.
If you want to get yourself a cheap but decent solid body emando and have it modified to suit have a chat with Peter at Almuse.

Otherwise, see if there's a way to reduce the volume on stage. Talk to whoever runs sound for you and see if there are on stage options for making sure the mandolin can be heard.

Best,
Daniel

[Paul Busman]

FWIW- I have an Eastwood Mandocaster that I play in an Irish/Scottish band. We play pretty small venues, so a Fender Mustang I is all the amp I need. It has a lot of modeled amps built in, and with a Fender Twin Reverb setting, I get a decent acoustic-ish sound.

[Lord of the Badgers]

Hi
Just to be clear - the band doesn't suit a proper electric mando :)
Nice options as they are! It has to sound like an acoustic & also look like one!

I am looking for a quick turnaround though.

[Lord of the Badgers]

I should add - though the thread is about solid bodied... acoustic still works OK if the bridge isn't an adjustable one & the design is oval... and carved... lol

(we've found that in practice, that bit's fine, it's the K&Ks that are the issue, so it needs to be the right bridge really.... I wish the MTO Collings was not adjustable since Trevor in TAMCO has one)

[James Rankine]

I was impressed by the Paul Hathway sound when I went to see the Bad Shepherds live. I didn't realise it was a solid body at the time because of the dummy oval hole - I was wondering how he managed to play so loud in a big venue without feedback on an acoustic. It would be my option if I had a large enough audience to play to.

[Lord of the Badgers]

can you describe the sound James? I've only youtube to go on.

[pheffernan]

I'm thinking that to cut down poss feedback in such loud gigs I could maybe consider a solid body with headway/good piezo in, since in those gigs, I'm not worried about "the piezo sound" as much.

Would a Godin A8 fit this application: http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/mandolins_detail.asp?stock=13101815214432? I've also read good things about the Ovation MM68 as a plugged in option.

[Lord of the Badgers]

thanks :) nice idea, but it needs to look pretty traditional. yeah the ovations sound good plugged in, but again, not v trad looking.

my bassist would kill me...

[Charlieshafer]

Solid-bodies aren't going to sound acoustic. No way, no how. Need to go hollow with a pickup. If you don't like the Ovations or Godins, you can always get one of the older Ibanez or Kentuckys off the classifieds or Ebay. I have an old Harmony batwing that's a blast to play. If it's a feedback issue, better learn to use monitors correctly. It's a lot easier and less expensive than buying equipment to solve problems you shouldn't have anyway.

[mandroid]

+1 on that ' Would a Godin A8 fit this application?' the bridge resonance of the chambered mahogany back
with the spruce soundboard does help.

It's piezo bridge pieces used with bronze wound strings works good , too..

Since there is no sound hole and the s/n out put from the preamp is good . its win-Win ..

[James Rankine]

can you describe the sound James? I've only youtube to go on.

Adrian Edmondson uses his Paul Hathway mandolin and octave almost exclusively for chordal accompaniment so I don't know what it would sound like playing melody. Here is a clip from a live studio recording which gives you a pretty good idea of what the octave sounds like which i think is really impressive for a solid body electric (don't be fooled by the sound hole). Looks the part as well. Music starts about 4.45

P0Ykz7N6L9A

[Lord of the Badgers]

in the band I'm definitely playing chords for the vast majority

bear in mind, those who think I don't know how much better a real acoustic sounds ;-) that this is for sweaty pubs...

[Lord of the Badgers]

I might be a cheeky sod and PM him on facebook...

[RichardF]

I've read this thread all the way through and it is confusing. You've got an impressive stable of instruments so why not fix the KK pre amps, use the monitors only for vocals and use an acoustic amp behind you for the mandolin which you DI into the FOH PA if necessary. I find that this set up works well with no feedback issues for up to 200 in a listening audience using a Breedlove Quartz and a Fishman undersaddle. I will admit that for pub gigs, non listening audiences, I use a solid bodied electric. Mine is an Errington with a Jim Cairnes humbucker into a Line 6 on the Clean Roland setting. It is kind of f shaped with a curved top, has no feedback issues and does the job. Isn't that all that matters?

[Daniel Nestlerode]

I just did a gig with local bon vivant, George Breakfast. GB plays a Hathaway mandolin. I have no idea what pickups Paul Hathaway put into these instruments, but they do sound very good. (I have a PH octave mandolin that sounds great plugged in too.)

Where are you m'lord Badger? I get down to Somerset on a regular basis and did a gig in Bodmin in August. Might be fun to meet up and compare notes and mandolins.

Daniel

[Lord of the Badgers]

RichardF
It's not that confusing perhaps as you've nailed it, except the band ethos means frontline instruments (apart from you can't always bring a double bass) must look acoustic :)

I'm merely looking at options - rationalising the types of pickups is the main one - i find the K&K a little more prone to feedback. Also, my prized "badgerlin" is something I don't want trashed as that so nearly happened last night when a drunk fell onto the stage area. Can you actually have a folk "moshpit"? we did...!!!

so my drivers are indeed - first - work out the least expensive way (though without lugging another box to a show) and get the best out of the preamp scenario - this we intend to do offline away from the heat of the moment as our bassist has to do our sound onstage.

then.. I'm trying to work out - is something like the hathway a good idea for a "live" mando in such situations. The bassist has two doubles, one for our "listening" gigs, and his plywood one for more rowdy affairs, then an electric for tiny places. Which we aren't keen on, but is necessary sometimes.

[Lord of the Badgers]

I just did a gig with local bon vivant, George Breakfast. GB plays a Hathaway mandolin. I have no idea what pickups Paul Hathaway put into these instruments, but they do sound very good. (I have a PH octave mandolin that sounds great plugged in too.)

Where are you m'lord Badger? I get down to Somerset on a regular basis and did a gig in Bodmin in August. Might be fun to meet up and compare notes and mandolins.

Daniel

Bristol area Daniel :) you can see where on our site :) (signature) - that'd be cool

[DHopkins]

I'm having trouble getting the link tab to work but I have a solid-body f-style in the "Post a picture of your mandolin" section. It's interesting and unique.

[Eric C.]

Just block the F-Holes of your instrument with...something. In extremely loud situations, I take some of that dark gray foam music studios stick on the walls and such. Works well enough.

[Ron McMillan]

I'm not sure I would want to be in a band that had a 'dress code' that applied to the instruments.

[Shelagh Moore]

Here's a link to the Gary Nava solid body mandolin (http://www.navaguitars.co.uk/e_mando.html) that Daniel Nestlerode referred to above, in case it's of any interest to you. Certainly, if I were still gigging with a full band I would be interested in one!

[Lord of the Badgers]

I'm not sure I would want to be in a band that had a 'dress code' that applied to the instruments.

now now... the internet makes things look more black & white than you'd imagine. A proper electric doesn't fit into the band look that's all. We like to stick to the all acoustic template as much as poss.

Richard.. thanks I'll take a look at the Nava link.

[Marty Jacobson]

Nobody has mentioned plugging the soundhole on your current instrument. If the K&K's are giving you trouble, try stuffing a rag or something in the soundhole. If that does the trick, then you could potentially get someone to make you a nice removable soundhole cover which could either be nearly invisible or a decorative accessory.

[Lord of the Badgers]

Marty I think someone hinted at that... but...
Overall my bassist who does our sound finds the headway pickup to have a more full sound that "cuts through" compared to the K&K. I have a headway preamp which we've been trying to use on the K&K but really struggling to get a decent sound.

I am still tempted though by something cheaper body wise, as the main mando is not a cheap instrument and tiny bars vs rowdy crowds = scary possibility of damage.

It would have to sound akin to the headway/celtic mando sound.

I notice my uk hobgoblin has a hathway on consignment, so if the experiments with the preamp don't work, I may see if they can ship it down for me to try & compare to the existing celtic mando.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Have you tried taping the f-foles. That cuts back on feedback on those loud gigs.