6 string tenor experiment

[zoukboy]

Back in the early 1980s I had a cheap Alvarez OM converted from 6 strings to 5 and experimented with various tunings. I found for playing tunes it had a number of advantages over the normal 6 string in DADGAD or DADEAE or whatever since I had essentially had removed a string in order to avoid having a 2nd in what was otherwise a tuning of 4ths and 5ths. But the sound of the instrument wasn't very good and I eventually got rid of it.

Recently I have become interested again in tenor guitar and had a Blueridge for a few months before tossing it back into the great stream of used instruments (I have practiced "catch and release" for years), after which I started thinking about ordering a 5 string tenor from Herb Taylor.

But then I got to thinking about a short scale 6 string in a variant of tenor tuning... so I restrung an acoustic guitar and tuned it CFCGDG and capo'd it to II in order to get DGDAEA. It worked after a fashion, but was unwieldy and I didn't like having to capo it to approximate a more friendly scale length, so I set it aside for some months.

Recently I have been experimenting with a short scale (23.25") travel guitar restrung and tuned to DGDAEA or DGDADA (there are LOTS of possibilities). What I found is that the tuning on this shorter scale is completely viable and it offers some surprising chord voicings compared to standard, dropped-D, DADGAD, etc. I am still dealing with a cheap guitar but it has decent electronics built in and sounds surprisingly good plugged in.

So the next step is to have a 23" scale instrument (I decided to shave 1/4" off the scale) built for this tuning and go from there. Watch this space for breaking news...

(YMMV, NFI, no animals were harmed in this experiment)

[Jayyj]

I do something similar for electric tenor these days. The tuning I use is FCGDGA - basically five string tenor tuning, but since I'm always retuning the top string of my tenors between A and G I decided to include both. First generation Fender Duo Sonics and Musicmasters are ideal for this given the 22.5" scale, although I keep sneaking looks at 3/4 Gibson archtops on Ebay, and wondering about an acoustic version. I was getting a bit frustrated with tenor up until I started doing this, but the extended range of the six string has opened things up dramatically for me.

This is one of two guitars I have strung in this tuning, a '58 Duo Sonic with modern electronics and a couple of changed parts:

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii598/Jayjy/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_001785.jpg (http://s1261.photobucket.com/user/Jayjy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_001785.jpg.html)

[zoukboy]

That's really cool, Jayyj. Would work for me, though, since I was trying to get away a 2nd ;-)

[delsbrother]

Do either of you have sound/video capability so we can hear what the voicings sound like? How are you playing? Fingerstyle, flat picking, etc.?

[zoukboy]

No, not yet. The cheapie I am using for the experiment is not really worthy of being recorded. If/when I get a proper "6 string tenor" I will post something.

[PJ Doland]

You might want to go fanned-fret if you're having something built. People have tried this kind of thing before and 6 consecutive fifths are hard to pull off, so they usually end up compromising on one string (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_standard_tuning).

[Jayyj]

Yeah, I can't imagine successfully getting 6 strings in fifths onto a standard neck. Even fan fret, CGDAEB or BFCGDA is asking a lot. My tuning is more of a five string tenor with an extra string thrown in to save me having to retune the top string all the time.

I've done some recording with it but I don't have Soundcloud or Youtube account personally so no immediate way of sharing. I can post again when the release comes out but it's months away yet.

[zoukboy]

You might want to go fanned-fret if you're having something built. People have tried this kind of thing before and 6 consecutive fifths are hard to pull off, so they usually end up compromising on one string (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_standard_tuning).

PJ: I wasn't advocating 6 strings tuned in (5) consecutive fifths. Look at the tuning I am using: DGDAEA - that's 4th-5th-5th-5th-4th

[zoukboy]

Update: So, I obtained an inexpensive Cordoba travel guitar with a 23" scale length and restrung it for DGDAEA as a way of exploring the tuning possibilities. The guitar is just OK, but certainly serviceable for this purpose. The tuning works. The interior GDAE strings on the 23" scale work fine and having both a low D and high A takes care of the problem of deciding which string to have on a 5 string instrument. There are some really cool chordal possibilities, too, with some very wide voicings that are fairly simple to achieve on this shorter scale.

But, when playing tunes I found I didn't really like reaching over the high A 1st string to get to the main business of tunes on the GDAE strings in the center. For me a tenor is mostly a melody instrument for Irish music so I have decided not to order a custom 6 string tenor and go with a 5 string with a low 5th string instead of a high 1st string.

Herb Taylor is making me a 5 string tenor with myrtle back and sides, cedar top, mahogany neck, etc., which is similar to one of his 4 string tenors I played at the O'Flaherty Irish Music Retreat week before last http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/tenorguitar/i178/.

There will be one important difference, though. Borrowing an idea from the Swedish låtmandola, Herb is building it with a fretboard extension for the 4th and 5th strings that will be three frets longer than his regular tenor scale of 22 7/8", (extending the scale for those two strings to 27.2"). I will use Pin Point capos to set the 5th course from D down to B open, and the 4th course from G down to E open. With the Pin Point capos at the same fret as the 1st-2nd-3rd strings the tuning will be DGDAE.

As he gets going with the build I will ask for some photos to post here.

[zoukboy]

The new tenor by Herb Taylor is well under way. I will post some photos here soon.

[dburtnett]

Can't wait to see the Herb Taylor build, Roger!

[fox]

I would like to see some pics.....

[zoukboy]

Here are the few I have so far. Projected completion time is late summer.

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As you can see from the photos it is a neck-through design.

[fox]

Lots of interesting designs going on there, something to be proud to own....

[dmcginnis]

Roger - is that a redwood top over walnut back/sides?

[zoukboy]

Roger - is that a redwood top over walnut back/sides?

Hi Dave,

It's WR Cedar over Myrtle.