Tenor Guitar for GDAE Irish Tunes recommendations?

[dmcginnis]

Hi all - I've been considering adding a tenor guitar to my collection. I have a superb Paddy Burgin octave mandolin with a 540 mm (21.25") scale length...and recently played a Weber short scale octave that had a 20" scale length that I liked a lot. There have been many threads on the short scale tenor guitars before - I believe Regals, SS Stewarts, Fletchers, and some others have similar short scale lengths.

My main question is how well do any of these short-scale tenors work for playing melody in an Irish session? I know that many like the Martin O-18T and Blueridge BR-40Ts seem popular...but they are longer scale lengths. What recommendations do you have for short-scale tenor guitars that are really good for Irish traditional music?

Thanks!

Dave

[fox]

The new Karla has a 21.25 scale http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?107759-Kala-Tenor-due-in-September
You can play irish style melody in CGDA on a tenor and it still sounds great, but it might just take a lilltle experimenting to get the right strings in GDAE.
Considering that Gerry O'Connor mainly plays CGDA tuned tenor banjo, instead of the usual Irish tuning GDAE & he must be one of the greatest Irish banjo player alive.

[Steve Zawacki]

The new Karla has a 21.25 scale http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?107759-Kala-Tenor-due-in-September
You can play irish style melody in CGDA on a tenor and it still sounds great, but it might just take a lilltle experimenting to get the right strings in GDAE.
Considering that Gerry O'Connor mainly plays CGDA tuned tenor banjo, instead of the usual Irish tuning GDAE & he must be one of the greatest Irish banjo player alive.

Agree! As far as GDAE strings go, Elderly (NFI) has packaged a GDAE tenor guitar string set for the Breedlove tenor which works great on my Blueridge tenor.

[GKWilson]

I use and like those Elderly Breedlove sets.
But, I have a Breedlove and they have 25" scales.
Gary

[kmmando]

If I were you, I'd track down a National tricone tenor guitar from the 30s, since you are US based. masses of volume, tone, cool looks, sustain, and an octave below all the fiddles/flutes/whistles/melodeons. The best for session tenor fun, in my opinion. Or a single cone one, honkier and bluesier, but really great too.


https://vimeo.com/53160634


https://vimeo.com/53160643

[bruce.b]

Kevin, I love your playing and both National tenors. I probably like the tricone the most but it's hard to tell from a video.

[Mike Snyder]

I wonder if my session mates would shoot me if I showed up with a resonator guitar. How do you mute one of those? I'm sure that they would harm me if I didn't mute my banjo, and the guitar is even MORE "in your face" than a tenor banjo.

Nice playing, by the way.

[Bertram Henze]

I wonder if my session mates would shoot me if I showed up with a resonator guitar. How do you mute one of those? I'm sure that they would harm me if I didn't mute my banjo, and the guitar is even MORE "in your face" than a tenor banjo.

If your session mates turn up with guns at the session, how much worse could an RTG be?;)
A banjo will still be louder than a resonator instrument, so the resonator should be welcome.

[Dolamon]

Mike - One of the things really different and accentuated on any resonator guitar, the pick placement can really change the sound and attack of the notes being played. Kevin is playing really close to the bridge and the initial sound is very bright and - um - large. If you play closer to the fretboard, the sound is 'fatter' and no where near as bright. The other thing you can do is a light palm damp with the right hand which actually defeats the idea of a resonator but may be more socially acceptable in some circumstances.

Also - your pick choice may be a factor. Many sessions can get out of control regarding speed of playing, volume and even musicality. But that often depends on the amount of Guiness being consumed and the phase of the moon.

[bruce.b]

>>My main question is how well do any of these short-scale tenors work for playing melody in an Irish session? I know that many like the Martin O-18T and Blueridge BR-40Ts seem popular...but they are longer scale lengths. What recommendations do you have for short-scale tenor guitars that are really good for Irish traditional music?<<

Is the session loud? Volume will be a problem with tenor guitar if it is, which is why a resonator tenor will work better at a big session.
I have a Blueridge BR40-T and a tenor with a 21.25" scale. The 21 incher is a much better instrument and is louder and cuts through better than the BR40-T. It's also easier to play fast melodies on it. I can handle a 23" scale, but I'm going to stick with shorter scale tenor guitars unless something like a Collings tenor falls in my lap. I'd make an exception for that.
I use 48, 34, 24 & 14 gauge strings for GDAE on a 21.25 inch scale. GDAE is all I play and it works great for everything.

[dmcginnis]

Bruce - the session is not loud...nice small group with a couple fiddles, button box, and two of us who trade off on mandolin, guitar, and bodhran. What kind of tenor is your short scale? I've played the BR40T and GoldTone TG18...both were nice, but I would prefer the shorter scale and an all wood instrument.

Thanks for the discussion and ideas, all!

[zoukboy]

Hi all - I've been considering adding a tenor guitar to my collection. My main question is how well do any of these short-scale tenors work for playing melody in an Irish session? I know that many like the Martin O-18T and Blueridge BR-40Ts seem popular...but they are longer scale lengths. What recommendations do you have for short-scale tenor guitars that are really good for Irish traditional music?

Dave

Hi Dave,

I had a Blueridge for about a year and played it regularly in sessions and it worked fine -- no problem cutting through. I have tried some of the shorter tenors, especially the Fletcher, but what I don't like about them for Irish tuning is that it is very difficult to get a good full sound out of the low G string. I used a .045 phosphor bronze on the Blueridge, with its 22.875" scale and even on that longer scale length it was a bit tubby sounding. I really like using the low G on tenor banjo so this was a bit disappointing to me. With a shorted scale this will be even more pronounced as it will need an even heavier string.

[bruce.b]

Hi Dave,
It's a Herb Taylor archtop. I love it and one of the reasons is, IMO, it has a great low G. It has a unique tone that seems to stand out.

[zoukboy]

Hi Dave,
It's a Herb Taylor archtop. I love it and one of the reasons is, IMO, it has a great low G. It has a unique tone that seems to stand out.

Well, that makes sense. Herb does great work. :-)

[bruce.b]

http://www.herbtaylor.com/videos/i179.mp4

Here is a good example of one. I believe this one is still for sale. The guy playing it, whomever it is, is really good. Is it in an open tuning? Would you happen to know, Roger?

[dmcginnis]

You know, Herb Taylor builds great instruments...now, if he could build in Roger's talent directly into the instrument so I would sound that good, it would really help a hack like me! :grin:

Cheers,
Dave

[mikeyes]

Another vote for Herb Taylor. I have #173, a tenor guitar especially made for the GDAE tuning and it is great! It is not a short scale, but I don't think that a short scale tenor guitar can put out the power and tone that this one does. I learned to play it with cello fingering and have had no problems.

Herb is very easy to work with and should be at the O'Flaherty Retreat (http://www.oflahertyretreat.org/) in October this year. BTW, Roger is teaching there too, so don't miss it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8DJA4-vvsI

Mike Keyes

[zoukboy]

http://www.herbtaylor.com/videos/i179.mp4

Here is a good example of one. I believe this one is still for sale. The guy playing it, whomever it is, is really good. Is it in an open tuning? Would you happen to know, Roger?

Ahem... uh... that's me playing, Bruce. ;-)

The tuning for that clip is GCGDG, IIRC. (up a 4th from DGDAD).

[zoukboy]

Another vote for Herb Taylor. I have #173, a tenor guitar especially made for the GDAE tuning and it is great! It is not a short scale, but I don't think that a short scale tenor guitar can put out the power and tone that this one does. I learned to play it with cello fingering and have had no problems.

Herb is very easy to work with and should be at the O'Flaherty Retreat (http://www.oflahertyretreat.org/) in October this year. BTW, Roger is teaching there too, so don't miss it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8DJA4-vvsI

Mike Keyes

Sounding good, Mike!

[dmcginnis]

Yeah, I agree that Mike sounds great. I've never tried an arch-top tenor...how does an arch-top compare to a flat-top?

Well done, Mike!

Cheers,
Dave

[mikeyes]

Dave,

Generically archtops and flat top guitars have a different sound. Archtops are more on the treble side and cut through noise a little better while flat top guitars are more likely to mix in more and have more of a bass side. Of course, there are so many exceptions to this statement that my head will start spinning to name them.

The best way for you to decide is to play each one of them (which you should do anyway if you are going to spend that kind of money) and then listen to someone of your skill level play the instruments since the experience is very different at the receiving end, especially with an archtop.

I happen to like the cedar top on my flat top but I may not have been as enamored with a spruce top so I went with my ears. I liked the two arch top tenor guitars that Herb had but like #173 the best. If I could have afforded it, I would have taken all three, they were that good.

I think that any Herb Taylor instrument will be top quality and you could easily adapt to either style. Herb builds one-off instruments most of the time so every one has a personality all its own. He can build to your specifications, but frankly most musicians are not so attuned to the instruments that they would know exactly what they want. His instruments are rich with musical and tonal surprises and it has been a blast to explore #173.

I know I haven't answered your question very well, but is all is a matter of taste at this level.

Mike

[mikeyes]

Here is my take right after I bought the guitar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbO-mEM7VYM

Mike

[zoukboy]

I think we need to have an Irish tenor guitar confab at O'Flaherty Irish Music Retreat in October. Whaddayall think?

http://www.oflahertyretreat.org/

[mikeyes]

Roger,

Sounds good to me!

Mike

[dmcginnis]

Does anyone have comment on the 20s era Regal tenor guitar? Thanks!

[Lord of the Badgers]

I have a Buchanan - it's pretty decent - it's the shorter scale though.
When I got it, it had a really nice weighty set of strings on it. I then got a Pearse set and am not nearly as happy - but I don't know what the previous set were. they were Phosphor Bronze, that's all i know!

Met a cool luthier guy called Colin Kendall the other day at Sidmouth Folk Festival (UK in case you're wondering). Nice guy. Wish I'd tried his tenor - it looked really nice.
http://www.colinkendallguitars.co.uk/folk.htm
did he really mean to spell bouzouki that way???!

[Alyx Hanson]

FWIW, I started with an octave mando that had a ~21.5" scale. It met a sad end over the winter when I got stuck outside waiting for a bus on a stupidly cold day. I wound up getting a Blueridge BR-40T to replace it, and while the scale is longer, it wasn't as much of an adjustment as I expected. My ideal instrument would be a touch shorter, probably, but it's definitely possible to switch from the 21" range to the 23" range without *too* much trouble.

[dave in sac]

Hi, has anyone tried tuning a Kala tenor guitar GDAE. If so what gauge strings did you end up using? I have one on order and want to go that direction.
Thanks!
dave-

[fox]

The Karla has a 21.5" scale so 14p 20w 32w 48w would work well.

[nkforster]

How about one of these?

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/NigelForster/SK%20tenor_zpsprvv8ruy.jpg

Osage orange and European spruce Session King (http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/instruments/the-session-king/) short scale tenor?

n

[dave in sac]

Thanks for the info!

[dmcginnis]

Nigel - that is one good looking guitar! I hope you will post more about it.

I ended up getting a 1930 era Regal tenor guitar, spruce top over mahogany (probably Cuban) back/sides. Once I got string gauges that were good for GDAE tuning, this little guitar sounded amazing. I am still getting used to it and the location where I pick the strings makes a big difference in tonality quality and sustain; regardless, it it a great little guitar with a lot of potential.

Cheers,
Dave