Vintage gibson oval hole mandos- on the hunt!

[LongBlackVeil]

I'm now on the hunt for a vintage gibson oval hole a style. Either a teens paddle head or loar era jr.

First I have a question,

Is this a good deal?

http://bit.ly/1n4gaVd

I've seen it up for quite awhile. Seems like a reasonable price, I thought a white top would be out of my reach so that's why I ask. Not ready to buy yet still have to get my d28 sold first.

Also any other tips of recommendations? I want to make an informed decision, I wish I could just go try some but there's only one local mandolin shop and they don't even have any used mandolins, much less vintage gibson. I have played one before so I know I like the sound

I know they don't have adjustable truss rods, so I'm thinking I should probably buy from a trusted source instead like a dealer or at least slime one here on the cafe

[Annette Siegel]

I'm now on the hunt for a vintage gibson oval hole a style. Either a teens paddle head or loar era jr.

First I have a question,

Is this a good deal?

http://bit.ly/1n4gaVd

I've seen it up for quite awhile. Seems like a reasonable price, I thought a white top would be out of my reach so that's why I ask. Not ready to buy yet still have to get my d28 sold first.

Also any other tips of recommendations? I want to make an informed decision, I wish I could just go try some but there's only one local mandolin shop and they don't even have any used mandolins, much less vintage gibson. I have played one before so I know I like the sound

I know they don't have adjustable truss rods, so I'm thinking I should probably buy from a trusted source instead like a dealer or at least slime one here on the cafe

s this a good deal?

It's a good deal IF it doesn't need a fret job, IF you don't have to pop the frets, plane the neck and then re-fret to get a straight fingerboard AND if that doesn't work possibly need a neck re-set. Also IF it has it's original parts, isn't a refin. and sounds decent which you won't find out until you play it. Buying stuff on the bay may seem like a good deal at the time, but can turn into a lesson on buying things on the bay.

I suggest finding a reputable person that knows what their doing with the old gibbies, so you can enjoy playing a mandolin and not have to deal with possible repairs $$ to get it in playing condition. AND 48 hour approval.

[LongBlackVeil]

Thanks, all good points that I'm very aware of. I don't think I'll really be buying this one. But it's been around for awhile and I have to admit it does tempt me. But I think I should err on the side of caution. Especially since it doesn't seem the seller even knows how to put on strings. (It's missing the e strings)

[mrmando]

Well, that seller is accepting offers. I'd feel a lot better about the risks of buying that A3 if I could talk the seller down to $1400 or $1500.

[LongBlackVeil]

How do you feel a teens paddle head would compare to an A JR?

I've played an A JR but never played a paddle head.


Well, that seller is accepting offers. I'd feel a lot better about the risks of buying that A3 if I could talk the seller down to $1400 or $1500.


Good point

[fatt-dad]

It's a good deal. There's always some risk. I've had j-74s on my always tuned A3 for decades. That case looks great. Mandolin looks right and these aren't so valuable they're faked. If the neck angle is good, the board flat and joints tight (looks great!) it's a good deal. I'd offer less, but it's not high.

They're fun to play! Great mandolin. More tub, less percussive (sp?) and just as loud from my former a2z or current 25 black snakehead. Love them both. Love the T-I heavy strings.

f-d

[LongBlackVeil]

im talking with the seller of that A3, theyre going to provide more pics for me, so ill see how that goes.

Im still digging but i think ive come up with a few good contenders. Needless to say this is alot of fun :) Ill list my top choices so far.

1924 A JR- Good Price on this, original case, everything is in good condition.

A snakehead A1- This one is interesting. Its priced well for what it is because of quite a few problems that make it not suitable for a collector. Refinished back (not top), label is there but it is torn, so the serial number is illegible., "The Gibson" inlay has been redone (quite well i should say), fingerboard leveled and new frets. This seems like it could be a good deal to me, as a player and not a collector.

a 1914 Pumpkin top A3- This one is priced well because of a pretty minor neck crack. It looks to be repaired pretty well and isnt a deep crack at all. I like the looks of this one alot, the frets are in good shape, and will be setup pretty nicely as it is from a dealer

a 1909 A - I like this one as well, non original tuners but other than that, its in pretty good shape, frets are good.

1914 A4- This one is at Mass street music. It appears to be priced really well for what it is, and looks to be in good condition. I really want to keep my budget under 2 grand but this is tempting, especially since its from a respected dealer. Has been given new larger frets, so i imagine they will be in good shape. Overall this seems like a good deal. I could see myself waiting and saving a bit more to grab it.

I have to admit im also liking the idea of a lyon and healy model C and Bacon Professional that i see. But i dont have a good idea of what these will sound like so im probably gonna scrap that idea. I do like the tone Norman Blake gets with his L&H model B though

The seller of the A3 in the original post said there is some fret wear, ill have to wait and see how much. Im trying to get an instrument that i dont HAVE to do any work to right away. So major fret wear will probably put it out of the question for me.

Not sure if anyone actually has time to read this massive post, but it is a good spot for me to keep a list of all the mandos im looking at so i dont forget.

[LongBlackVeil]

Well I've made an offer on the a3 in my original post. I FEEL like I left enough room in my offer to pay for any kind of repair work it might need. I don't know what I'm getting into though, I'm definitely taking a risk, I can see the action is pretty high, but then again the strings aren't tuned up to pitch I bet, I will probably just try to fit a new bridge first and see what happens. The frets don't look too bad though, frets 2 and 3 have a little wear that's it, I've seen worse

Wish me luck!

[Clef]

In my opinion, when dealing with vintage stringed instruments you should play it before you buy it. Also when you play it you can check if there is any necessary work to do like Annette mentioned above.

The ebay auction you linked is NOT in excellent condition like the seller says it it. The back is cracked from the pick guard bracket. It looks like the top is cracked or separated near the heel of the neck. The binding is also separated. The string action looks high up the neck so the neck might be warped.

[LongBlackVeil]

Well my offer was rejected anyway. I've seen more pics of this one and the neck looked like it had a small ammount of relief, but nothing that planing the fretboard couldn't fix. I accounted for everything I thought it might need, including that crack on the back. Oh well the search goes on


I wish I could play first, but there's only one mandolin store anywhere near me and they only deal in loars, kentuckys, and breedloves.

[Capt. E]

Just saw an A-jr sell on ebay for under $600. The tail of the back had separated and needed re-glueing ($150 repair at most).
A-0's, A-1's and A-Jr's have been selling in perfect playing shape for under $1000. I wouldn't pay more than $1200 with OHSC for one (all original without repaired cracks and with good frets). An A-4 can be had for under $2000. A lot can be said for buying in person and being able to play before purchase. $1400-$1500 for the A-3 sounds pretty good. I assume it would come with the OHSC at that price.

[LongBlackVeil]

Just saw an A-jr sell on ebay for under $600. The tail of the back had separated and needed re-glueing ($150 repair at most).
A-0's, A-1's and A-Jr's have been selling in perfect playing shape for under $1000. I wouldn't pay more than $1200 with OHSC for one (all original without repaired cracks and with good frets). An A-4 can be had for under $2000. A lot can be said for buying in person and being able to play before purchase. $1400-$1500 for the A-3 sounds pretty good. I assume it would come with the OHSC at that price.

you seem to be behind the times according to the dealers asking prices. I know they are only asking prices but still.

Gryphon strings wants 2500 for their Loar era A JR. to me that sounds ridiculous, it seems like if i offered in the under 2,000 range they would decline with an asking price that high but granted idk.

The pumpkin top a3 that im looking at is without an OHSC at the price of $1590

I dont know if the prices are really rising or if theyre just asking more and not getting it.

Again i do realize these are only asking prices

[lflngpicker]

I don't yet have the expertise to recognize all the nuanced differences between these various years and shapes. I have a Gibson A (1912) in the family that I started playing 30 years ago. I have never played or heard a mandolin that sounded better. I don't think you can go wrong with your knowledge and experience and you will make a great choice.

Here's ours:

121918

[pheffernan]

Again i do realize these are only asking prices

Have you considered the 1927-1928 Gibson A Jr. languishing in the classifieds: http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/76972? It may not have the desirable snakehead but is priced accordingly, and if I'm not mistaken that absence didn't seem to affect Mike Compton much.

[jaycat]

Surprised no one has mentioned it, but you need to watch out for top sinkage on these. I have a 1915 A and the top has sunk to a certain extent. This made for intonation problems and buzzing until I swapped out the original bridge for an adjustable one.

Hopefully the sinkage has stabilized but only time will tell.

[Capt. E]

Actually I realize the ad was pulled and then put up again: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171396914779?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Starting bid $395. I don't expect it to sell for more than $700, the needed repair is pretty simple.

Here is an A-2 that looks very nice, not all original, but still a Buy It Now of only $750: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161372714296?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I see other examples pretty regularly

[journeybear]

Doesn't the logo on the A-2 headstock look a bit odd?

121924

[Capt. E]

Do believe it is re-finished. Probably re-did the logo, but I'm no expert on those details. Would probably be a nice player, though I would want to find a tailpiece cover...a vintage one might cost $100 or so.

My main point is that there are so many old Gibson A's out there that there is no need to pay big money for one unless it is a pristine orginal condition example that you need for your collection.

What is the going price for snakehead A's these days (not A2Z of course, but regular A2's)

[LongBlackVeil]

What do you guys think about this? Is this a simple fix?

This is the only thing wrong with an a jr that I could get for a good price. Would it stop you from buying?

the hole is for the pickguard pin, so its down there in that area. Im supposing i wouldnt even need to fix it immediately since its so far down the fretboard, but the cracked parts worry me

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww236/ColtonS7/image-150.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/ColtonS7/media/image-150.jpg.html)

[lflngpicker]

LongBlackVeil: IMHO That wouldn't go anywhere in 30 years. I don't think it would interfere with playability and could wait to be repaired. I found this mando interesting too and saw that same small screw hole in the pics. I would think it would be cosmetically repaired best by installing a pickguard after filling it properly. This is a cool mandolin and a Gibson!

[pheffernan]

Do believe it is re-finished. Probably re-did the logo, but I'm no expert on those details. Would probably be a nice player, though I would want to find a tailpiece cover...a vintage one might cost $100 or so.

I've seen them going for close to twice that figure at dealers like Picker's Supply: http://pickerssupply.com/vintage-parts/1920s-gibson-mandolin-tailpiece-cover. Bill Camp Banjos wants $395 for the whole tailpiece: http://www.billcampbanjos.com/Gibson%20mandolin%20tailpiece%20and%20cover.HTM.


My main point is that there are so many old Gibson A's out there that there is no need to pay big money for one unless it is a pristine orginal condition example that you need for your collection. What is the going price for snakehead A's these days (not A2Z of course, but regular A2's)

They seem to be north of $2000 from private sellers and as high as $2950 from Vintage Mandolin Headquarters http://www.vintagemandolin.com/25gibsona_81386_fon8625.html and $4200 from Retrofret: http://www.retrofret.com/products.asp?ProductID=3552.

[LongBlackVeil]

LongBlackVeil: IMHO That wouldn't go anywhere in 30 years. I don't think it would interfere with playability and could wait to be repaired. I found this mando interesting too and saw that same small screw hole in the pics. I would think it would be cosmetically repaired best by installing a pickguard after filling it properly. This is a cool mandolin and a Gibson!

yes after some research, it seems to me like it would be a good idea to fill the hole in with glue and ebony dust, and then redrill the hole, right? if thats so, i dont think it would be a costly repair.

[LongBlackVeil]

Well I went for it this is my new mandolin!

http://m.ebay.com/itm/281389845698

I think I got a good deal considering it's all original with case and pickguard, and in pretty good condition besides that one spot pictured above.


My main point is that there are so many old Gibson A's out there that there is no need to pay big money for one unless it is a pristine orginal condition example that you need for your collection.

This post got me thinking "why am I paying all that extra money for a "the gibson" logo, an inlay, and some binding?" This was one of the first mandolins I looked at, I think I'm really gonna love it. And the setup actually looks really good in the pictures of the profile of the instrument.

Thanks guys! Good help here

[lflngpicker]

You did indeed! Congratulations.

[LongBlackVeil]

Thanks, I actually paid 1400. But again I think that's a good price in this market

[lflngpicker]

That is an excellent price. You did well and it will be one of the great ones in your collection for a long time.

[Capt. E]

They seem to be north of $2000 from private sellers and as high as $2950 from Vintage Mandolin Headquarters http://www.vintagemandolin.com/25gibsona_81386_fon8625.html and $4200 from Retrofret: http://www.retrofret.com/products.asp?ProductID=3552.

Snake heads are indeed selling over $2000 (I would love to own a good one). I would expect $4200 in original near mint condition for an A2Z, but probably not that high for a regular A2. Here is a nice A-1 recently re-listed on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271561131938?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The prices on all Gibson models have been fluctuating all over the place. I know of a teens A-0 at a local shop (missing the pickguard and without case) that is priced at $1900. No surprise it has been there more than two years. You can research the asking prices, but what you really want are the selling prices.

[fatt-dad]

Last year I sold my A2Z in a few days for $5,040.00. I'm pretty sure it would go in a few hours at $4,200.00.

Compared to my '25 A1 for under $2,000.00 the A2Z is not "worth" the $3,000.00 upcharge. They are rarer, but not more musical (to me), as the snakehead A1 has very much the same tone.

f-d

[Capt. E]

There you go, there is a very significant difference between collectors and players. I guess that '25 A-1 snakehead now on ebay is not horribly priced at $2650 (though still probably $500 too high). Not a collector's instrument, but a good choice for a player.

[LongBlackVeil]

What do you guys think about this? Is this a simple fix?

This is the only thing wrong with an a jr that I could get for a good price. Would it stop you from buying?

the hole is for the pickguard pin, so its down there in that area. Im supposing i wouldnt even need to fix it immediately since its so far down the fretboard, but the cracked parts worry me

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww236/ColtonS7/image-150.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/ColtonS7/media/image-150.jpg.html)

does anyone else have an opinion on this? am i right that it would just be a matter of filling with ebony and glue, then redrilling and reseating the fret?

[Capt. E]

does anyone else have an opinion on this? am i right that it would just be a matter of filling with ebony and glue, then redrilling and reseating the fret?

Why would you want to re-drill unless you are putting a pickguard on?
Just fill and smooth and do a fret level if needed. Can't see what else might be needed on it.

[LongBlackVeil]

Why would you want to re-drill unless you are putting a pickguard on?
Just fill and smooth and do a fret level if needed. Can't see what else might be needed on it.

well it still has the original pickguard, i think ill leave it off but id like it to be an option

[Capt. E]

well it still has the original pickguard, i think ill leave it off but id like it to be an option

Then you might want to re-drill. I like and use pickguards(aka finger rests).

[LongBlackVeil]

I got the a jr in this morning. It sounds really great:) I've never heard such a powerful g string! It really goes boom, it's almost kind of unbalanced, because the g string seems to have so much more horse power than the other strings, not sure why. But overall I love what I got.

My two problems are that I can't figure out how to work the pickguard clamp, there is a hole in the bridge with a piece of felt in it, but there's no pin on the pickguard to go the bridge, and it doesn't look like there ever was one?

And that loose fret comes into play at the 12th fret on the e string so it will have to be fixed. The good news is that I don't think that crack really needs to be filled, it looked bad in the photo but it person it's not a big deal at all.

[Charles E.]

Congratulations on your new (old) Gibson!

[LongBlackVeil]

Can anyone tell me if there is supposed to be a pin that goes into the bridge?? I feel like there must be, because i cant get the pickguard to line up flush with the side of the neck.

Like i said there is a hole in the bridge filled with a piece of felt or something similar. There doesnt appear to be a hole in the pickguard where the pin would go, so im pretty confused


Congratulations on your new (old) Gibson!

Thanks!

I have a feeling this one hadnt been played in a long while, because its really starting to wake up the more i play it. The person i bought it from said they had never played it

[Charles E.]

If it is the original pick guard, yes there should be a pin.

[Charles E.]

You should be able to find images of the correct pickguard on the mandolin archive....

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/

[Bruce Clausen]

Can anyone tell me if there is supposed to be a pin that goes into the bridge?

Mine (1924 snakehead Junior) doesn't have a pin. Fits well though. No hole in my bridge either. I'm pretty sure my old teens A2 had the pin, but that was older, a higher model, and maybe also a different shape of guard.

[LongBlackVeil]

Ok this is what I have


This is how it looks when I put it on, the clamp is kind of loose though

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww236/ColtonS7/image-151.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/ColtonS7/media/image-151.jpg.html)

From another angle

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww236/ColtonS7/image-152.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/ColtonS7/media/image-152.jpg.html)

Piece of felt in the bridge

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww236/ColtonS7/image-153.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/ColtonS7/media/image-153.jpg.html)


http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww236/ColtonS7/image-155.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/ColtonS7/media/image-155.jpg.html)

I'm just confused on this even after reading the website that explains how to work it. What is the felt for?

In other news I did glue that loose fret down and there was one fret sticking out sideways. I gently hammered it back into place and everything is great now!

[Charles E.]

Your pick guard may not be original and has been altered. the felt is for the pin (that should be there) to go into and not rattle or buzz.

Here is a 1924 Snakehead on eBay with the original pickguard (but not the original bridge) that clearly shows the pin. Also note how the pickguard swoops up a little at the end of the fingerboard.
I hope this makes things clearer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1924-Gibson-A-model-Snake-Head-Mandolin-/331079727850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d15e3baea

[LongBlackVeil]

Your pick guard may not be original and has been altered.

What's been altered on it?

[RayMan7]

A lot of the pickgaurds do have a pin that sits in the hole on the bridge, as it does into the fretboard. I think yours just simply never had a bridge pin. Cant tell from the pictures but does it have 1 or 2 pins that go into the fretboard? My `20 A2 has 2 fretboard pins but I`ve seen others with 1 pin, along with no bridge pin, so theres just different variations.
From your second picture you can see the nut on the clamp is too tight, I think all you need to do is loosen it until the pickgaurd lines up with the fretboard, clamp it up then it should be good to go!

[Charles E.]

What's been altered on it?

Well, that extra long bolt with the hex nut is not original.

[LongBlackVeil]

Ah ok, that explains a lot then.

Now I feel comfortable enough to just make it work. Now that I know it's not original anyway. I'll just tinker around with it until I make it work

[Charles E.]

RayMan7 could be right, they put on that pickguard and used a bridge with a felt insert, not really caring if the pickguard had a pin or not.

[RayMan7]

I believe its original. I got these pictures from old ebay ads, but you can see the difference between 1 pin and 3 pin pickgaurds. The first one is exactly like yours BlackVeil, which just seems to be less fancy than the 3 pin one, which Im guessing was used for higher A/F models or just different time periods. I think bridges were all standard with a hole in it.

[Bruce Clausen]

Looks to me like the pin goes with the model of guard that wraps around the fingerboard and runs under the E strings. As in Ray's 1st photo. Maybe the OP has the Junior guard, but a bridge off another mando that uses the other one.

[LongBlackVeil]

Well I've given up on putting the pickguard on. I'll just keep it in the case and make sure I don't lose it.

I gotta say I'm really glad I picked this up. It is an excellent sounding mandolin. Still trying to find the strings I like best, but it just has such a powerful sound, I'm glad I went on this journey. I definitley enjoy the oval hole sound more when just playing solo and practicing

[fatt-dad]

have I mentioned how much I like the T-I heavies on my '25 A1? they ain't cheap though! Look for 154ST by T-I.

Then again, you may like a different sound then me?

f-d

[LongBlackVeil]

have I mentioned how much I like the T-I heavies on my '25 A1? they ain't cheap though! Look for 154ST by T-I.

Then again, you may like a different sound then me?

f-d

Yep, tried em and they weren't my thing. They were lighter so they also sounded brighter to me. I generally like 80/20 strings after they've mellowed a bit, but I'm going to try the sam bush strings next. I've heard those are a good match

[stevem]

If you want to tame the powerful G string, you might try putting on an adjustable bridge and messing around with different bridge heights. Set the action a little higher for the treble strings and it could balance out (if you are looking for more balance.) An adjustable bridge might also give it a little more modern sound.

Fatt-Dad, I had a '25 A1 a while back too (thought it was a '23 until I sold it.) It sounded great--bright, sweet and other-worldly.

[pheffernan]

If you want to tame the powerful G string, you might try putting on an adjustable bridge and messing around with different bridge heights. Set the action a little higher for the treble strings and it could balance out (if you are looking for more balance.)

I've thought about simply installing medium-light strings like the GHS A260's (or PF250's for LBV) that keep an .11 on the E but drop the G to .38 to see if that would balance my snakehead.

[lflngpicker]

Pheffernan, Interesting idea to maintain the 11 on E and drop the gauge a bit on the G. I know how incredible the bass is on those old Gibson A's, and mine is teens, while you have the snakehead. Ours is a canon and the bass dominates a bit :). Let me know how it works out if you try it.

[LongBlackVeil]

No I'm actually not interested in taming it at all. I love it, I was just speaking out loud. Balance is overrated IMO :) it's a really nice sound for solo playing like I said.