Take your best mandolin to the festivals?

[Darren Bailey]

Ivan and I were chatting about whether to take your best/favourite instrument to festivals. It came about as a result of my own concerns for taking my prized mandolin to a four day festival in August. Ivan has had many more years of bluegrass festivals than myself and tells me that he's never had any problems taking his various instruments along. Just out of interest, how many here take their main mandolin and how many have a back-up "beater" that only makes it to festivals? I'm kind of swung by what Ivan says as I'd like to have something that sounds as good as I can be when I'm jamming etc but still there's a little voice in my head shouting "play safe". What do you think?

[Amanda Gregg]

Most of the folks I know bring their best instruments with the justification, "Why own them, if you aren't going to really play them?" This includes friends who own Loars. Their advice: pay for good insurance and go have fun.

A few years ago at Greyfox, a rather well known mandolin player awoke in the middle of a field after a long crazy night with nothing but the clothes on his back and his 1st tier mandolin around his neck.

Which reminds me: the thing to worry about is not theft but drunken mayhem, like the time someone let someone else borrow their bass, and it exploded on the ground in a missed handoff. Keep your eyes on your instruments to avoid theft. I generally keep my mandolin with me or locked in a car under blankets (if it's not too hot).

[mandroid]

Now that I own one of Peter Mix's Carbon Fiber ones, no problem .. (mine an A5)

well not no problem, Its still awfully expensive to travel so far to even Get to most Festivals ..


Going to the Tenor Guitar Gathering , next week, since they Come Here.

[allenhopkins]

I believe it's spelled "Festivus":

1WY23misns4

But seriously, yeah, I take my best instruments to the festivals I attend (or perform at). But, I don't drink, I try to keep 'em secure, within sight at all times -- and, honestly, even my better stuff isn't of such high value that it would be an overwhelming temptation to a potential thief.

So far, so good; been lucky, maybe even a bit cautious (fingers crossed)...

[Michael Weaver]

I'm with Allen and Amanda. I take my main axes with me. I don't drink either. I have taken my beaters before but I end up leaving them back at camp because I want to sound my best. Playing a mandolin I barely ever play means that I won't sound my best. After midnight.....watch for swinging guitar headstocks flying through the top of your mando. Hop into the circle, play your solo, duck out of the way and watch for falling drunks. I did one time have a guitar player swing the top of their Gibson guitar into my headstock and it poked a hole right through the top. Luckily it didn't damage mine soooo....too bad for them.

[Ivan Kelsall]

If i play anywhere,i want to sound as good as i can - 'mandolin wise' anyway - i ain't too sure about the talent !:redface:. If i had a Lloyd Loar or any mandolin by a 'top maker', that's the one i'd take,i'd just take good care of it as i always do. If i'm not playing either of mine,it goes in it's case & the case stays with me - permanently. Also,if where i'm playing gets too overcrowded,i'll put it in it's case & just listen. Michael's 'swinging guitar headstocks' is what i'm thinking about.There's alway other less potentially damaging time to play,
Ivan;)

[Pasha Alden]

I have a beater/beat up mando. I do very basic things like camps. For festivals I use my more expensive mandolin: Jbovier. Reason: I wish, as you said to sound as good as I can. Like Ivan I have not yet had trouble of any kind. I am going to play my more expensive mandolin at our national arts festival in July. So I look forward to that. three mini concerts. Good luck with your preparations for the August festival.

[Lord of the Badgers]

Oh god yeah, take your best one - but as others have said - be insured if you're not already.

I only don't take my bestest one when I think the space will be a feedback nightmare - that's when I take the still very good other one but with a different type of pickup.

For outside - it's the best one as it cuts lots more

[Bertram Henze]

'course I do, since I have no second-best.

[Tony Pearce]

Take what you're most familiar/comfortable with. However, if the likes of John Reischman will take his Loar to workshops and let the students 'have a go', I'd have no problem taking my favourite mandolin.

[joemcg]

I'm leaving 6/11 for the summer in my travel trailer. I'm starting at the Huck Finn Festival and then heading North to campground host in Sequoia National Park.

I purchased a Kentucky KM-150 specifically for the summer. I wasn't as worried about damage/theft at Huck Finn as i was during the CG hosting stint. Also I won't have electric at either site, so no air conditioning. I wasn't too excited about subjecting my more expensive instruments to the vagaries if the summer weather.

I'm leaving the Martin guitars at home also and taking a Taylor GS Mini.

[Jim]

I wasn't too excited about subjecting my more expensive instruments to the vagaries if the summer weather.
This is much more my concern than damage from accident. My 3 best mandolins are not worth collectively what many people on this sites beaters are worth. However I don't take my favorite 42 Strad o lin much further from home than my front porch. Mostly because I fear for 70 y/o glue and no truss rod construction. The Strad-o-lin has a beautiful bell like tone but is not as loud as My Rover RM75 or my Gitano ( a Great sounding cheap F) so are more suitable for big groups anyway. I wouldn't own them if they didn't sound good so I'm not really worried about not sounding my best. I think a good case is the most important thing for these festival situations and making sure your instrument is in it when you are not playing.

[John L]

I would never buy anything that I consider too valuable to take anywhere I want to play - keeps my MAS (and GAS) under some control I guess, but my instruments are still good enough to play pretty much anywhere. I lean toward good quality used instruments as they come with scars. Call them players quality I guess, but I don't worry about taking them out.

[Jack Roberts]

My best is a beat-up A-1. It looks like the previous owner took it to festivals and any other place it could be played. I bought it from a dealer who bought it at a festival.
I take it everywhere, but I keep an eye on it. I would hate to lose it.
My second best is a pristine F-4 with great sound, but it lacks the scars of time that would make it truly great. I play it at home and keep it well protected.

[Ryk Loske]

I don't subscribe to the "having a beater" philosophy. I come from the school of "Buy the best you can afford, take excellent care of it, and play the bejeezus out of it."
Even at home, once i pour a scotch or glass of wine the instruments aren't touched.
Both of my mandolins will fit in the Calton case i had done in "Marigold" yellow which can be seen from any distance, though it's usually either next to me or secure somewhere else.

Take the good one!

Ryk

[lenf12]

My beater is a Kentucky KM340S with a JJB pickup so it only is taken anywhere I need to plug in. For purely acoustic playing like at a festival, I take the tool that will get the job done best, my '56 F-12 of course.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Bill Baldridge]

I wouldn't know how to buy a mandolin as a financial investment, so if I don't play it, why have it?

[Darren Bailey]

I'm swung by the arguments /experience here. However, I also know that once I get out in the open air for a few nights without the watchful gaze of my good wife I'm likely to be sampling a few real ales and red wines. It's not theft or climate I'm concerned about, it's a stumbling owner who might get stupid.

[lenf12]

Can't help you there....I've been a stumbling owner at times......so far, the mandolins gods have smiled kindly. The damage could be fixed :crying:

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Denny Gies]

Only own one mandolin so I do take it to festivals.

[EdHanrahan]

I've long assumed that the low-end-of-the-line early Flartirons were called the "Festival" model as their way of saying "here's really nice mandolin that won't hurt quite so much if it gets rained/spilled/fallen on." But still very nice mandolins!

[barney 59]

I live by the beach so I have a beater( old Ajr) for that because of the sun and the sand and the potential for that occasional wave that travels much farther than all the others. For anything else I would take my best. I always figured that having a very nasty looking case is a pretty good deterrent to snatch and run thieves, not that I have one at the moment. My thinking is that they are going for the instrument in the really nice case. I worry more at festivals about getting run over by a drunk while I'm sleeping in my tent than damage or theft of an instrument! The best solution to that is not to sleep which seems to happen a lot to me at festivals since the best stuff seems to happen in the middle of the night!

[Willie Poole]

I always take my best mandolin and one time a dobro player put his head stock smack into the body of my mandolin and all he did was laugh about, he didn`t look so good wearing a dobro around his neck though...Not really, I just let it pass and rubbed it out and it is hard to see the scratch unless you look real hard....

No use having them if you aren`t going to play them and show them off....

Willie

[JeffD]

I tried buying a second mandolin when I was concerned how difficult it would be to replace my first. I fell in love with the second, and even had some custom art work applied, (making it irreplaceable), so instead of a second I had another first.

I would gigantically regret and miss the loss or damage of any of my mandolins. I don't have any best mandolin, really, they all do something really well, and I don't treat any mandolin as a beater. Likely if I felt that way about a mandolin I would sell it, because it would never get played.

[Dave Greenspoon]

I take both my Rigel and my Washburn to Grey Fox. Around my campsite I'm more likely to pull the Rigel out. The Washburn is more likely to come with me on a walkabout.

[samlyman]

I spent a lot of time and money looking for a good second mando to take out when the weather is bad or extreme. I finally found a used Kentucky 950 a while back (thanks Clement) and it is a great second... Big frets, radiused fretboard, pick guard, arm rest and tone guard so it feels as close to my Heiden as is possible. when the weather goes bad I confidently jam out with the 950. I've had many people say they can't believe how good the Kebtucky sounds and I have to agree.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Darren - "...it's a stumbling owner who might get stupid.". Darren,do one or the other - not both !. If you're going to play,play - don't drink until you've done playing & then don't play again. If you're going our for a pint or ten,leave your mandolin somewhere safe. I've always found that for me,maybe one drink before playing is fine,any more & it's not so fine,especially if i'm playing with others - i get intolerant of all their mistakes. The more i drink,the more mistakes they make & everything goes to hell !,:))
Ivan:redface:

[Bertram Henze]

The more i drink,the more mistakes they make

Sounds like the ultimate weapon DARPA never thought of: one man can stop an army by having them stumble over their own feet and shoot each other...

[Dagger Gordon]

Even at home, once i pour a scotch or glass of wine the instruments aren't touched.
Ryk

Gosh, when I think of some of the sessions I've been to with seemingly endless amounts of booze flowing and people playing away great style, that seems a long way from what I'm used to. Think of pub sessions in Ireland, for example. Lots of great music largely fuelled by Guiness, it has always seemed to me!
Indeed, quite often when I take out my mandolin at home to play for a while that's exactly when I WOULD pour myself a glass of wine.
Incidentally, my instruments have somehow survived intact through many years of this approach. Not everybody has been so lucky though , I will admit.

[Pasha Alden]

I Concur with Allen Hopkins. I do at all times ensure the safety of my instrument, keep it secure and not let it out of my sight? <big smile: pun intended> Also keep it out of the way of falling people who've over indulged. <smile> Have fun playing at your festival!

[AlanN]

It's all part of the parade - Banjos, Budweiser and Winnebagos. Just be careful, take no prisoners and pickaway!

[sgarrity]

They were made to be played!

[MikeEdgerton]

I have always taken my best instruments to festivals. There are a few gigs I've played where I haven't done that though.

[DataNick]

I take my best & a beater usually, but Huck Finn coming up, I'm just takin the F5L...

[journeybear]

If i play anywhere,i want to sound as good as i can - 'mandolin wise' anyway -


Pretty much how I feel, too. Perhaps even more so at festivals, since they are full of people who actually know what a mandolin is and what it sounds like and what a really good one sounds like. You know, people who like acoustic music and go well out of their way to hear it and play it, much, much more so than the average person. So, yeah, you want to sound your best, or at least stack the cards in your favor. ;)

For years I only had the one mandolin, anyway, so if I were going anywhere where playing might be in the offing, it went with me - festivals, parties, hiking, the beach - everywhere. After all, one can go to a musically-oriented party and expect there might be a guitar one might get to play, but if you are hoping to play some mandolin in such a situation, you have to bring one. And it might as well be your best.

As others have mentioned, weather is often a bigger concern than accident. Keep it in a good hard case when not in use. I have had problems now and then with water, but sensible attention to the situation has always gotten me through.


No use having them if you aren't going to play them and show them off....

Yep, this too. And if you are hoping to impress a member of the opposite sex (or same, as you wish), you will fare better with a nice one than a beater. ;)
.

Even at home, once i pour a scotch or glass of wine the instruments aren't touched.

No, really? :disbelief: You are missing out on some FUN!!! :grin:


A few years ago at Greyfox, a rather well known mandolin player awoke in the middle of a field after a long crazy night with nothing but the clothes on his back and his 1st tier mandolin around his neck.

That was YOU? :disbelief: :grin: :redface: Oh, wait - you said "his." Never mind ... :whistling:

[JeffD]

I have to admit that taking a mandolin, any mandolin, to a festival is like taking one of your children. You always know where it is, how far away or how close, and whether it is reasonably safe. Is it in the gigbag, or the hard case. Is it in the tent, or the camper, or the car.

[Marc Ferry]

Personally, I always take my best mando to the festivals. As others said, why have it of you ain't gonna play it?

But if you are scared of theft or damage, you could bring a less expensive mandolin for night jamming when problems are more likely to occur.

[journeybear]

The kid had better NOT be in either the hard case or the gig bag. If it's a cat, though, that's OK ... :whistling:

[stevedenver]

I bought my rigel a plus for 'combat duty'.

Its all about the unknown, the unforeseeable.

I take it when, simply, I don't know what to expect. A rough bar, bad part of town, isolated parking area, or, being outside and no guarantee of shelter.
I bought a travelite so I can hang it on my back.

Its a great mandolin, it plays the best of all my mandos -the other three being far more expensive. I can play up high, and it sounds really good. Not like an ellis, fern or brentrup, but damn good anyway.

I expect the best of folks, and in festivals and among musicians, I have experienced good and respectful and honorable folks. But, im not so naïve not to understand too, there are predators, and, I can make an error in judgment. I like a drink, but not so much its an issue with playing, because with more than a beer, my accuracy and memory go to hell. But not all are like this.

I only bear in mind how unhappy I would be if I lost or badly damaged a prized instrument.
I made this choice as a balance between managing my instrument and having an easy mind.
Sometimes I think theres a bit of 'whatcha got' mentality and im willing to endure the 'shame' of not having an F around my neck.

[Mike Bunting]

'course I do, since I have no second-best.

Damn, that's what I was going to say :))

[Dagger Gordon]

Thinking about the original question, I think I've come to the conclusion that a festival would probably be exactly one of the main times where you would want your best mandolin.

Why? Because presumably there would be lots of opportunities to jam with people who are pretty good players who you may not know and who probably know a bit about mandolins. That would surely be a time for 'good pickin' and I imagine in such a situation you would want to acquit yourself as well as you could.

If you weren't comfortable with that, ask yourself what you have your best mandolin for. Sitting playing on your own at home?

It seems to me you want to buy the best instrument you can which could be replaced if necessary (plenty of Collings etc out there for example), get it insured and get out there and play. If it's too 'good' for that I can't really see the point in having it.

[Ivan Kelsall]

There is a 'dark side' to taking a really top quality mandolin to a festival. I've seen pickers give less than friendly glances at players who have a 'better' instrument than their own. It's a fact - sad but true,that some folk feel really jealous of others. I don't have a jealous bone in my body - now feeling envious (that's a sort of jealousy without the desire to extermiate the 'other person' !) many,many times. It usually begins & ends with 'i wish' whatever. I was in a jam session at a Bluegrass festival many years ago,one that the OP (my friend Darren) didn't know was on his doorstep at the time - Ironbridge in Shropshire UK - when a guy turned up brandishing a Monteleone F5 mandolin which he proudly told us had belonged to Dave Grisman at one time. He joined in & the guy who'd been playing mandolin with us before 'Monte' arrived stormed off. It was fairly obvious that he wasn't in the mood for being 'bettered' on the mandolin front. However,IMHO,the 'Monte.' didn't sound too good. If it had been a really top of the heap mandolin,maybe Dave Grisman would have held onto it. Regardless of this sad fact,i'd still take my 'best' instrument to any festival / gig anywhere, & if it engenders any jealous feelings,that ain't my problem,:)
From David Gordon - "...get it insured and get out there and play..". David,are your instruments insured for outside your home ?. If so by which company ?. I tried to insure 3 instruments for 'playing out' a few years ago & the cost made my eyes water !. I asked the company if they'd consider 'one off' policies ie.for taking an instrument(s) to a 2 - 3 day festival but they wouldn't even consider it. As it is,my policy of keeping my instrument(s) with me all the time has served me well for 50 years - but....... !,
Ivan~:>

[Amanda Gregg]

He joined in & the guy who'd been playing mandolin with us before 'Monte' arrived stormed off. It was fairly obvious that he wasn't in the mood for being 'bettered' on the mandolin front. However,IMHO,the 'Monte.' didn't sound too good. If it had been a really top of the heap mandolin,maybe Dave Grisman would have held onto it. Regardless of this sad fact,i'd still take my 'best' instrument to any festival / gig anywhere, & if it engenders any jealous feelings,that ain't my problem

I think your attitude, that it "ain't my problem," is exactly right. I have seen folks "put it back in the case" for all kinds of reasons, and only the one packing it up knows what's really going on. It could be the mandolin, it could be intimidation about the level of the player, it could be boredom, it could be personal.

[SincereCorgi]

I was in a jam session at a Bluegrass festival many years ago,one that the OP (my friend Darren) didn't know was on his doorstep at the time - Ironbridge in Shropshire UK - when a guy turned up brandishing a Monteleone F5 mandolin which he proudly told us had belonged to Dave Grisman at one time. He joined in & the guy who'd been playing mandolin with us before 'Monte' arrived stormed off. It was fairly obvious that he wasn't in the mood for being 'bettered' on the mandolin front. However,IMHO,the 'Monte.'

Wow, people really do that? There are a lot of rich folks with super-fancy instruments in this part of California, so I wouldn't get to play much if I always had to scuttle off when somebody brought out their Kimble or pre-war Mastertone or whatever.

[Dagger Gordon]

From David Gordon - "...get it insured and get out there and play..". David,are your instruments insured for outside your home ?. If so by which company ?. I tried to insure 3 instruments for 'playing out' a few years ago & the cost made my eyes water !.

That's not the sort of thing I would like to put up on a forum Ivan, but I'll maybe PM you sometime if you're genuinely interested.

[AlanN]

the guy who'd been playing mandolin with us before 'Monte' arrived stormed off. It was fairly obvious that he wasn't in the mood for being 'bettered' on the mandolin front.

Do you mean bettered by the instrument or the picker? I'd rather jam with a good picker on a not so good instrument than the other way around, anyway.

[fatt-dad]

So, let's say you have a $5,000.00 Ellis A5 and a $1,000 KM-950. You keep the Ellis at home and take the KM-950 to festivals. After a few years, which mandolin carries the stories of your festival life? Which mandolin has the character that reflects story after story?

I don't get the "beater" mentality. Is it really important to get the $1,000 mandolin to "save" the $5,000.00 one? I mean do you really think the $5,000 mandolin is likely to suffer $1,000 worth of damage in your own hands? I don't.

Now I have a beach mandolin. I love it - it's my '84 Flatiron 1N. I have more stories with that $500.00 mandolin. That said, if it was lost or damaged I'd be crushed, not for the lost value, but for the lost memories. Nostalgic? Yes, very. . . So, it's not the "beater value" that let's me neglect the instrument. It's the fondness that I cherish. There's no cost on that!

f-d

[Iron]

If the weather is threatening or I think it might get a little rowdy late at nite when the best picking is done I leave my Fern at home and take a Weber Bighorn.

[Bertram Henze]

It's the fondness that I cherish. There's no cost on that!

This - the mandolin you take to festivals will become your best. If you're afraid of losing what you love, you'd better never leave the house in the first place (which won't help either, of course).

[Pasha Alden]

IMHO it's all about fun and the joy brought on by playing music. So no room for envy and jealousy. Recently I met a mando player at the hobbies fair. Christian had being playing for years, he asked to play my mandolin and belted out the Celtic music. Intimidated? No. Why? I'm playing for under two years and face a few other challenges. So I used the opportunity to learn from the guy. I think we must never lose sight of the joy of playing, even as humble beginners, or as persons with humble instruments.

[journeybear]

After a few years, which mandolin carries the stories of your festival life? Which mandolin has the character that reflects story after story? <snip> It's the fondness that I cherish. There's no cost on that!

Exactly! The longer you play a particular instrument, the more stories you have about it and the times spent with it. One of the things I miss about my F-12, Mandy Lynn (stolen seven years ago, not from a festival (notoriously unsecured events) but from my vehicle parked at my storage facility, with a dozen or more cameras around, and in broad daylight), is all the stories I have in which she played a part, all the times we spent together, all the people we met along the way, all the songs we wrote together, all the music we played together. Granted, all that stuff happened and the memories still exist (as much as I can remember, ;) but she was the witness to it all, and the prop, the visual aid I would use in the telling of these stories. I've since learned she wasn't all that great an instrument (mid-to-late 1970s), and either of my current plain A models sound better than she ever did, but still, I'd like to have her back. Though given current circumstances, she would probably become my beater. :disbelief: Sorry, dear! :whistling:

Actually, I am facing an odd predicament. Since I now have two teens A pumpkins, I would have to choose which of these very similar instruments I would bring. I would have to sit down and play each for a while and listen closely to determine which truly is the better sounding one - and then take that one. OK, upon further reflection, problem solved. Never mind ... :cool:

[journeybear]

Do you mean bettered by the instrument or the picker? I'd rather jam with a good picker on a not so good instrument than the other way around, anyway.

I read it as the former. And I agree with you. I always appreciate what someone who knows what he is doing can do with even a POS that you would never think could sound good. Not to blow my own horn here, but the one and only time I encountered a $50 Rogue, at a pickin' party, I got some decent sounds out of it. Took a little doing, mind you, but it was satisfying, personally, to learn I was able to do that.

And also, the opposite holds true. I get a bit vexed when someone who has a nice instrument doesn't know what to do with it and makes it sound like a POS. It's a shame, really, especially when there are plenty of talented people who can't afford such an instrument. Makes me want to knock the guy over the head and liberate the suffering instrument from his clumsy clutches. I would never actually do this, of course ... :whistling:

[JeffJones]

I am with the pick your good 'un crowd.

In my case I only have one mandolin, but it is a pretty nice one, and I would not hesitate to bring it along anytime I wanted to pick. I figure if the weather, or most any other factor, is bad enough that I would be worried about my mandolin, I doubt I will want to subject myself to it.

The only time I have decided not to bring the mandolin, or any other instrument, along somewhere is when we have gone tent camping as a family at a regular campground for the weekend. There were a couple of times where I knew that I was either going to have to leave it unattended in the tent all day or locked in the car all day. And since we were camping in Florida in summer the car was not an option. I doubt I would have even brought a "beater" mandolin along in those circumstances either. Plus, I doubt I would even had time to get it out and pick even if I had brought an instrument along. Camping with a toddler turns out to be a fairly all consuming experience. :)

At a music festival I have found that this is not as much of an issue because I tend to stay closer to camp and I am often camping with a group where there is always someone hanging around the campsite. Plus a mandolin is easy to carry around in a gig bag or case with backpack straps if you are camping alone. My banjo or guitar would require a little more thought because they are more of a pain to tote around if necessary.

[AlanN]

I read it as the former. And I agree with you. I always appreciate what someone who knows what he is doing can do with even a POS that you would never think could sound good. Not to blow my own horn here, but the one and only time I encountered a $50 Rogue, at a pickin' party, I got some decent sounds out of it. Took a little doing, mind you, but it was satisfying, personally, to learn I was able to do that.

And also, the opposite holds true. I get a bit vexed when someone who has a nice instrument doesn't know what to do with it and makes it sound like a POS. It's a shame, really, especially when there are plenty of talented people who can't afford such an instrument. Makes me want to knock the guy over the head and liberate the suffering instrument from his clumsy clutches. I would never actually do this, of course ... :whistling:

Too wise.

Jethro told this story: He was in a bar, watching a bluegrass band butcher his favorite tunes. Naturally, he was keyed in on the mandolin player, who was all decked out in fancy clothing and a brand-new, shiny F-5. Unfortunately, he couldn't pick a lick. In walked a skinny guy in faded, ripped jeans, toting a battered old mandolin case. He moseyed up to the bandstand and asked if he could sit in on a few tunes. He opened up the case, took out an old F-5 and proceeded to badly mangle some chestnuts. If anything, he was worse than the first guy.

So much for provenance.

[JLeather]

I've had several cycles of convincing myself I needed a beater, only to find that I can't stand playing a worse mando at a festival knowing I could be playing my favorite. I got good insurance on it and now I only take my beater if I think its gonna spend too much time in the hot car.

[Tobin]

And also, the opposite holds true. I get a bit vexed when someone who has a nice instrument doesn't know what to do with it and makes it sound like a POS. It's a shame, really, especially when there are plenty of talented people who can't afford such an instrument. Makes me want to knock the guy over the head and liberate the suffering instrument from his clumsy clutches. I would never actually do this, of course ... :whistling:
I know you're just being honest, and you're not alone on that sentiment. But that attitude is partly why I don't go to many festivals. I own a really nice mandolin, and I know my picking isn't up to the standard that people might expect when they see a guy with a really nice mandolin. I'd rather not be judged on the fact that I haven't achieved some secret and arbitrary level of prowess in order to earn the right to play a really nice mandolin. It becomes this big ego contest about who is "the real deal", instead of just playing good music together.

It's a shame, really.

[doc holiday]

Damn, that's what I was going to say :))
.......doesn't Duff come before Stanley in the Canadian alphabet ;)

[journeybear]

I know you're just being honest ....

Oh, not entirely. ;)


It becomes this big ego contest about who is "the real deal", instead of just playing good music together

I dunno. I don't usually - and I really mean, hardly ever - make anything out of this kind of stuff. Just sometimes I feel a bit of sympathy for the mandolin. At the time , naturally. One hopes the owner will improve in time. :mandosmiley:

[Perry]

You need to take your LOUDEST mandolin! :grin:

[mandroid]

You need to take your LOUDEST mandolin!

of various ones, short of the Banjolin, it's the d'Jangolin., here.. also has the smallest hard-case .
in comparison with the A's and the F.



Sunday It went to a Posthumous Celebration of the Life of the Tavern Owner where we Jammed a Lot .

[Ellen T]

I know you're just being honest, and you're not alone on that sentiment. But that attitude is partly why I don't go to many festivals. I own a really nice mandolin, and I know my picking isn't up to the standard that people might expect when they see a guy with a really nice mandolin. I'd rather not be judged on the fact that I haven't achieved some secret and arbitrary level of prowess in order to earn the right to play a really nice mandolin. It becomes this big ego contest about who is "the real deal", instead of just playing good music together.

It's a shame, really.

And this is why I do not attempt to play with others. I had to live according to other people's standards for too many years (sometimes up to, sometimes down to) through family, school, and work. I do not want that in this part of my life; it stifles the joy.

[belbein]

And this is why I do not attempt to play with others. I had to live according to other people's standards for too many years (sometimes up to, sometimes down to) through family, school, and work. I do not want that in this part of my life; it stifles the joy.

Ellen T: It's a shame, really. The best way to enjoy music is to play with other people. I don't have a lot of festival experience, and at a jam I tend to hang back and play softly, but playing live music with live musicians makes the instrument come alive. I'm sure there are people who look at me and say, "He doesn't deserve to play that Goodtime [banjo] or Gibson [mando]" (what would they say if they only knew that I have an Ome Banjo and a Weber mando at home, neither of which I come close to "deserving"?)

I'm with you on this, though: I won't play with people who are playing with their ego. I just pack up and walk away. Like you, I don't intend to be judged by jerks, and I don't have to sweeten their lives by playing backup to them or standing around and admiring their prowess.

That said, seems to me that Journeybear was actually not being judgmental, but making an (albeit inelegantly stated) poetic point, something along the lines of instruments having souls that are only set free by being played, and about the existential sadness of the difference between the music we want to set free and what we are able to. Or something like that.

[Mike Bunting]

[QUOTE=Tobin;1294071]I know you're just being honest, and you're not alone on that sentiment. But that attitude is partly why I don't go to many festivals. I own a really nice mandolin, and I know my picking isn't up to the standard that people might expect when they see a guy with a really nice mandolin. I'd rather not be judged on the fact that I haven't achieved some secret and arbitrary level of prowess in order to earn the right to play a really nice mandolin. It becomes this big ego contest about who is "the real deal", instead of just playing good music together.
That is just as much an ego problem on your side as it is on the other.

[JeffD]

I know you're just being honest, and you're not alone on that sentiment. But that attitude is partly why I don't go to many festivals. I own a really nice mandolin, and I know my picking isn't up to the standard that people might expect when they see a guy with a really nice mandolin. I'd rather not be judged on the fact that I haven't achieved some secret and arbitrary level of prowess in order to earn the right to play a really nice mandolin. It becomes this big ego contest about who is "the real deal", instead of just playing good music together.

It's a shame, really.

Performance anxiety increases with really good mandolins. It does. Can't be helped.

This much I know. I will not let the attitudes and prejudices and bad manners of a few musicians dictate where and with whom I will play and what instrument I will take. If I am not welcome here I will be welcome over there. And if not over there, then way down there, or maybe I'll sit on this picnic table and play and let folks come to me. And if someone has the bad taste to say something, well there are ways...

Too many fun musicians to let the few bad apples control what fun there is to be had.

[journeybear]

That said, seems to me that Journeybear was actually not being judgmental, but making an (albeit inelegantly stated) poetic point, something along the lines of instruments having souls that are only set free by being played, and about the existential sadness of the difference between the music we want to set free and what we are able to. Or something like that.

Something like that. I'm not one to rest on my laurels or toot my own horn - far from it - but there have been times when I am quite sure I can do better than someone else. But it doesn't matter, because I also know there are plenty of people who can kick my butt all day long. But I think that a lot of the picking you run into at festival campfires is about having a good time, playing the best you can, not playing better than anyone else there. Granted, the better you play, the more likely you are to get the nod to take another lead on the next song, and the next. But it's not like cutting, in jazz circles, where there is some one-up-manship. Even that, though, at least theoretically, is supposed to be about pushing the other guys to excel, though it seems to be more competitive - :OK, let's see you follow this" or "Try and top this." Generally speaking, bluegrass picking is a good bit more friendly and welcoming.

But the point I was making was just expanding a bit on what AlanN had said, as to why I would rather hear a good player play a so-so instrument than a so-so player play a good instrument. It's more on the player as to how well the music is being made. The anecdote about Jethro is an extreme example of how far the disparity between these qualities can get. I've never encountered anything quite like that, but I can see how it could. I'm not all that judgmental about other people's playing, knowing all too well how rarely I impress myself with my own. But those times when I DO impress myself - my own toughest critic - make me feel awfully good, like all the years I've put into this often silly endeavor have been worth the doing.


And this is why I do not attempt to play with others. I had to live according to other people's standards for too many years (sometimes up to, sometimes down to) through family, school, and work. I do not want that in this part of my life; it stifles the joy.

But you really should, even if it's a bit rough at first. Stay on the sidelines and play along quietly until you feel confident in your ability. If you get the nod to play a solo and you don't feel up to it yet, just shake your head. There's no shame in passing - you'll know when you're ready. Maybe find a jam with people who are at about your level and stick with them. Part of the fun of all this is rising to meet challenges and feeling good about yourself when you meet and even exceed expectations. until you feel ready to move up some. Remember, everyone started out somehow, even the ones who think they're hot stuff, and everyone went through stages of development to get where they are at the moment. And everyone can stand a bit of improvement. Even the top flight musicians. I'm not one - no way, no how - though I do have a certain style that is more or less unique and has served me well, and has gotten me through a lot of times even when I may not be as technically proficient as some of the other players at a jam or in a show. Even so, when people ask me how long I've been playing, I'm fond of saying, "I've been at this for 46 years now; I figure if I stick with I'll get good, someday." Thing is, I'm not 100% kidding. ;)

[Ellen T]

I wish I had tried playing with others when I was younger. Now, besides the (possibly bad) habit of playing alone, I have more finger problems that keep me from playing fast, and some days the connection between the brain and fingers is nonexistent. Yesterday, for example, tunes that I can play decently and I use as my warm-up exercises just weren't there, I had a hard time hitting the strings I was aiming for, and the fret hand and the pick hand were not communicating. Today was better, but I have had to acknowlege my limitations so I don't get frustrated by trying things that I physically cannot do anymore. I wish I had gone more for the speedy stuff when I was younger so I would have the muscle memory for it now. It might mitigate the nerve damage. What I work on instead is trying to get as much expression out of the instrument as I can. Short of sounding sappy, of course, ew. Maybe I'll give it a whirl on the front porch, and if the neighbors don't throw anything, I'll take it to a camp area someday. I guess I'm always afraid of someone telling me, "You really suck!" :redface:

[f5loar]

I always take the "beater" Loar out in public gatherings while using the better ones for paying gigs in secure places. The biggest concern is don't set it down and walk off. When you go to the bathroom, it goes with you. Years ago you would see dozens of high end stuff. Lately you see the cheaper stuff. It's gotten to the point where hardly anyone notices if you got a real Loar or not, as there are so many "fakes" out there plus Gibson had to go and copy their own stuff with re-vamped MM and DMM models it's hard to notice anymore.

[journeybear]

What I work on instead is trying to get as much expression out of the instrument as I can.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. There's more to playing well than playing fast. Much, much more. Playing well can mean something as simple as getting the melody just right, with a clear, even tone and steady picking approach. Also, picking up the lead from the previous player and leading your solo into the next player's is an often overlooked but much appreciated skill. There are a lot of things you can do to be solid without being flashy. Just saying that means you're already headed in the right direction. Keep at it - you'll get there! :mandosmiley:

[DataNick]

I always take the "beater" Loar out in public gatherings while using the better ones for paying gigs in secure places...

The "beater" Loar...just Classic!...I love it! You've got me rollin man, the "beater" Loar... hey why not!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Alan - I meant the instrument. Some folk simply can't stand anybody having 'anything' better that what they own.
My family were as you'd say in the US 'dirt poor' back in the early 1950's.A lot of my clothes were 'hand me downs' or second hand. My point - even when i began work,i was forking over my wages to my family so we could eat,it was as simple as that. Everybody had things that were 'better' than i had,because until my late teens early 20's i had nothing, apart from my banjo which hadn't cost much anyway. Having never expected to own things others took for granted,jealousy was never part of my make up. As an example of how folk can be :- Nearly 30 years ago,i had the fortune to be able to buy a very well known & expensive brand of wristwatch at 'cost price' (1/2 of the retail price,& having a very wealthy bro.in law living in Zurich,Switzerland helped ). One of the guys in the office where i worked learned of this & didn't speak to me for weeks afterwards !. Why some people are like that i don't know - but they are,:(
Ivan;)

[Ellen T]

Exactly what I was going to suggest. There's more to playing well than playing fast. Much, much more. Playing well can mean something as simple as getting the melody just right, with a clear, even tone and steady picking approach. Also, picking up the lead from the previous player and leading your solo into the next player's is an often overlooked but much appreciated skill. There are a lot of things you can do to be solid without being flashy. Just saying that means you're already headed in the right direction. Keep at it - you'll get there! :mandosmiley:

Well, I've been "keeping at it" for about 45 years, off and on. I'm better than I used to be, which is my THERE, and next year's THERE, and next decade's THERE. I can't play as comfortably or for as long as I used to, but I am trying for quality over quantity now, which is satisfying. Most of the time. More :mandosmiley::mandosmiley::) than :mandosmiley::mandosmiley::mandosmiley::mandosmile y::mandosmiley::crying:

[fatt-dad]

I play for therapy. On the porch, on the sofa and all alone (heck, my wife can't stand my ruckus!).

I go to jams too. I get mixed benefits from each - but they are clearly benefits.

I would never forego an opportunity to play with other like-minded musicians. In the world of languages, what's the point if you don't learn to communicate?

I liken that to music.

f-d

[JeffD]

I wish I had tried playing with others when I was younger. Now, besides the (possibly bad) habit of playing alone, I have more finger problems that keep me from playing fast, and some days the connection between the brain and fingers is nonexistent. ... What I work on instead is trying to get as much expression out of the instrument as I can. .... I guess I'm always afraid of someone telling me, "You really suck!" :redface:

Finger problems are an issue. I think that finger brain problems are a little different in that I think they can improve with practice. The brain finds other paths.

Expression is everything. Playing more expressively, fast or slow, is always better IMO.


Regarding playing "out" versus playing alone, I think I have a solution. Actually it is the solution some of my fiddle friends have adopted. Which is to find a fiddle buddy. Someone of like mind that you can play alone, with. The two of you can just work on stuff together and get and give each other confidence and tips and tricks and, depending, share the fears and share the cheers. A musical buddy is a great way to avoid the jam and playing with relative strangers, and still have the benefits of the musical interaction. And, if playing out becomes an option, you will be prepared.

[Tobin]

Regarding playing "out" versus playing alone, I think I have a solution. Actually it is the solution some of my fiddle friends have adopted. Which is to find a fiddle buddy. Someone of like mind that you can play alone, with. The two of you can just work on stuff together and get and give each other confidence and tips and tricks and, depending, share the fears and share the cheers. A musical buddy is a great way to avoid the jam and playing with relative strangers, and still have the benefits of the musical interaction. And, if playing out becomes an option, you will be prepared.
I have a couple of those who I play with regularly (sometimes all of us together). But one thing I've learned from it is that the benefit only comes from your 'buddy' being at least at the same level of proficiency you are. If you're constantly having to slow things down, or stop and start because your 'buddy' can't play at your level, it can work against you. I mean, it's probably good for the buddy to be learning new things and keeping him/her challenged, but it kinda sucks for the more advanced player. So having a buddy who is roughly at the same level is where the most good comes from this.

[fatt-dad]

yes, I love playing duets with my buddy once or twice a month. He doesn't play mandolin though! We're working up all sorts of fun stuff - classical, Irish, Celtic, old-time, etc.

He's on hammered dulcimer or guitar. It's a blast and he's much better than me, so I have to practice to look halfway prepared.

f-d

[oldwave]

When i go to festivals I usually take my National. The problem is that the level of jam etiquette varies widely cutting through gets your solos heard, though i must say if the jam is loud all the time, i don't stay long. The key to playing an Rm-1 is the control the dynamic range, all that volume potential takes experience to not be too loud.
I usually match the mandolin to the gig, bar his with potential for damage gets the Kentucky, concerts get the better instruments. I am lucky to have a number of choices unlike the first 25 years of playing when i only had the old f-4. The best mandolin is the one you have with you. Festivals can be magic and inspiring and great source of learning and making great friends. However as a cautionary anecdote at Clifftop three years ago i witnessed the headstock being broken off a beautiful Collings guitar when a drunken festival goer crashed into it. I always put my stuff in the case when i set it down.

[JeffJones]

Regarding playing "out" versus playing alone, I think I have a solution. Actually it is the solution some of my fiddle friends have adopted. Which is to find a fiddle buddy.

Got to be careful here. Before long you will think to you self "Hey, why don't I get Fiddle Buddy A and Fiddle Buddy B together and we can have a nice jam session" and then before you know it you have band. And now instead of one problem...;)

[mandolinlee]

Ivan mentioned in #42 about the guy w/ the Monteleone walking in and the other mandolin player storming off.
Whenever someone with a fancy instrument comes to a jam I'm in, I ask them to play something so I can hear how it sounds.
I find no reason for jealousy of someones better instrument or scorn for someones lesser instrument, we all have to spend our money to suit ourselves. Buy what you can afford, play what you buy.
Enjoy,
Lee

[JeffD]

When i go to festivals I usually take my National. The problem is that the level of jam etiquette varies widely cutting through gets your solos heard, though i must say if the jam is loud all the time, i don't stay long. The key to playing an Rm-1 is the control the dynamic range, all that volume potential takes experience to not be too loud.

Controlling the volume on the RM-1 is a real challenge. I found it to be a skill I had to deliberately develop. Of course the upside is with control of the volume you can take advantage of its incredible dynamic range and play more expressively.

The RM-1 is the perfect mandolin IMO for outdoor jamming, as at a festival.
- It can be heard.
- Its tone is crazy cool.
- It's a looker.
- It's not a fragile instrument. You can't beat on it, but it's not an egg shell.
- And one more thing - because it is naturally loud, you can play at reasonable volume with much less pick pressure, so you can really play faster than you think you could.

The downside, for festivals, is that it is kind of heavy. Clifftop is a good example, because there are significant distances between the things I like to do. Takes some effort to shlep the rez around all day. But what the hey, banjo players do it all the time.

[Bob Bronow]

I received my Sorensen less than a week before the Topanga Banjo and Fiddle Contest. I asked Steve if I should leave it home and take my Kentucky instead. He said, "I build them to be played. Bring it!"

[journeybear]

True enough. They're all built to be played, and with some sensible care-taking will last a long time, during which time they will be played a lot. One hopes. I often wonder what kind of a life my instruments led before they came into my possession: who played them; who has heard them; how much and how often; where, when, and with whom else; what kind of music; where have they travelled; what historical events have they witnessed. After all, some of them are nearing a hundred years old. I expect I have added to their experiences, some more than others. After all, not every one of them get played every day, and some haven't been played in a while, for various reasons. The more they get played, the more of a full life they have led. The nicks and scratches and dents they showed up with, the ones I have added, all tell stories of some kind. If instruments could talk, what tales they would tell! :mandosmiley:

[Caleb]

I don't have much experience with festivals, and I don't know many popular or standard tunes, so I've only taken out an instrument on a couple of occasions. But the subject of fancy/high-end mandolins at jams reminded me of something.

I was at a old-time music festival and met two mandolin playing brothers. They both owned Wayne Henderson oval hole, A-style mandolins. What are the odds of finding anyone with a Henderson instrument, much less two in one place?

Anyway, these guys were just great people and one of them played my Eastman while I played his Henderson the whole time. And, man, what a nice instrument. I can't imagine owning something like that.

I guess my point is that there are some truly wonderful people and experiences out there in the world of acoustic music.

[Bertram Henze]

Why some people are like that i don't know - but they are,:(

Be glad he didn't kill you...
http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/theonering-0188db0e/gallery/original/smeagol_deagol.jpg

So when you hear someone invisible play an invisible F5 beside you, THEN it's time to storm off and leave the place... :cool:

[oldwave]

Cool,
We should get a resonator jam this year.