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jerryk
Apr-08-2014, 10:59am
Hello,

My name is Jerry Kaidor, and I just found my father's mandolin..... therein hangs a tale.

I'm 60 years old, and have two six-month babies. That's a long story, I won't bore you with it.
Suffice to say that they need to be brought up, and I want music to be part of that. I sing to them a lot.
Can't sing worth a damn, but the babies don't care, and that has been liberating.

I thought to myself - it would be nice to strum some chords on something while I sing. My first thought was an autoharp. I remember the teachers playing them in early grades. It looked easy. Press the button, strum the chord. A modern autoharp gives you 21 different chords. It looked like a playable one would cost $200 - $300 on ebay.

Then I remembered my father's mandolin, sitting in my closet since he died in 1983. Probably harder to learn than an autoharp, but it had one great advantage - I already had it. So up I went to the highest shelf of the deepest closet - yup, there it was.

I pulled the instrument out of its bag, and one of the strings dangled free. Broken at the loop. Luckily, there was just enough string left to form a new loop and get it playing. I found one of the excellent on-line tuner programs and tuned it up.

"Gee the strings on this thing are awful close together. How can I get my right finger between them to strum?" I shook the instrument bag, and a small teardrop shaped piece of white plastic fell out. It said "Fender Medium" on the side. "Oh".

The web yielded up instructions and demonstrations of simple 2-finger chords. Very cool. There were also three-finger chords, but those seem to require that I bend my left hand into a pretzel. Maybe later.

I decided that the repaired string might not last, and a new set would be wise. My handy dial caliper gave me the diameters - ranging from .009" to .027". Hmm, the string sets on the web all seemed to be heavier gauge. I suspected that I might do the
instrument harm if I put in strings heavier than its design. One store had "ghs Ultra Light" strings, which were pretty close ( .009 -.032 ), so I bought two sets of those.

I also indulged in a "Snark SN8" tuner. What an amazing piece of technology! There must be a DSP (Digital Signal Processor ) in it. I wonder if it could help tune my piano?

The mandolin itself is nothing special. It is the "A" style with F holes. Clearly a cheap instrument. The top is three-layer plywood. The various fitments are the cheapest sort of plastic, some of them cracked. There is an extra fret next to the nut, which terminates the vibrating portion of the strings and sets their height. The nut itself is broken between the two E strings, but there is just - barely - enough meat left to keep them apart. I'm thinking it's not worth a whole lot of work - just new strings,
and adjust the bridge. But it sounds reasonably OK to my tin ear, and I can play it till I figure out whether I want to pursue this seriously.

The strings arrived the other day, and I restrung the mandolin. Strings are dangerous. Ouch! I'm glad my tetanus shot is up to date.

I am not a musician in any sense of the word, but I do have a little background. As a child, I endured 5 years of classical piano lessons. I played the cello in HS, played the soprano recorder with friends in college. I also discovered ragtime in college,
and banged out a lot of that on the piano.

I don't have any great ambition for this endeavour - just want to strum chords while I sing to my babies. That could change - I do tend to get sucked into things. But my hands are not the best - I messed them up in the 80's and the 90's doing software development - tendinitis :(.

Today, it looks like I need to scare up a replacement nut. It broke completely off
at the E string. Web research leads me to believe that it's no big deal - with the "zero fret", the nut just sets the positions of the strings from side to side. The strings vibrating quality is set by the zero fret. A quick search through the junkbox unearthed a bar of teflon scrap which might be ideal. If I can actually cut the slots. Teflon is easy to machine, but it is hard to abrade. I have a Sherline lathe & mill......

I don't think I'll be able to buy a nut off the shelf for this thing. A Tusq PQ-1535-00 is just about the right width. But the individual slots will be too wide. I suppose I could file out the bottoms of the slots to capture my instrument's small strings.

It's important to me to get this thing playing as fast as possible, before I lose traction and it just goes back into the closet.

Bill Snyder
Apr-08-2014, 11:48am
Jerry, you compose a good post. With the zero fret I would not worry about the Tusq nut slots being too wide. Too narrow would be a problem, but too wide will work ok. You could also get THIS ONE (http://www.amazon.com/WD-Plastic-Replacement-Mandolin-Nut/dp/B009TUGCCC) from Amazon.

Good luck.

Denny Gies
Apr-08-2014, 12:36pm
Jerry, you should write a column about your adventures. If there is a music shop close to you it may pay to take the mandolin in there and get some professional advice about getting it into playing condition. Good luck and have fun with it and the babies.

Jim Garber
Apr-08-2014, 3:30pm
Two babies!!! They will love you for this.

derbex
Apr-08-2014, 3:42pm
I sympathise with the tendonitis, did much the same thing at the same time myself, ended up giving up the mandolin for a decade or more, started again in December and at the moment it's ok. Good luck with it, I'm really enjoying starting again.

tangleweeds
Apr-08-2014, 7:00pm
What a wonderful idea, to make sure your babies have music in their lives from the very beginning. I believe that early exposure is very important for a child's musical development...

...this said as someone who didn't have that exposure, and have always felt that kids from musical families had level of musical understanding that I wasn't wired up correctly to see. It's taken me a number of years, and several instruments, and a lot of study to get myself to where those kids seemed to be starting out.

DataNick
Apr-08-2014, 7:17pm
Welcome, and Best Regards to you in your musical endeavors. Cafe member Rob Meldrum has an e-book on Mandolin set-up that you might find useful. Just email him, rob.meldrum@gmail.com, put Mandolin Setup in the subject line and he sends it to you. Or you could PM him here on the Cafe.

Best again to you and the babies!

JEStanek
Apr-08-2014, 8:09pm
Welcome to the Cafe and good luck with all of it!

Jamie

Randi Gormley
Apr-09-2014, 9:44am
I'd love to see a picture of the mandolin if you have one -- and I will echo others here to suggest you look about getting it set up properly. It would help to make sure the neck is straight, too, or you'll hurt your fingers trying to fret the strings past the first three or four.

You can actually play single line melody on the mandolin so if you want a break from backup, you can play a tune and sing along with it as well. It helps the kids recognize the tune if your singing voice is like mine, pretty minimal!

Mike Steadfast-Ward
Apr-09-2014, 10:11am
Welcome, learning to play at any age is both rewarding and stimulating. And sets a good example for the little ones. Good luck in your adventure.

jerryk
Apr-09-2014, 9:41pm
Here it is....
117890
117889

Bob Melton sent me his book - what a wealth of information!

The E strings are pretty unplayable now because the nut broke. I ordered a new one on IIRC amazon ( or was it ebay? ). Anyway, while waiting, I thought I'd play with the bridge. Loosened the strings, got it off - pretty cheap. It's adjustable, but the adjustment screws are not parallel to each other, nor are they perpendicular to the piece that lays on the instrument. Instead, they angle in towards each other, one more than the other. Makes it impossible to adjust the bridge all the way down. Well, it *made* it impossible. I relieved the holes with a power drill, and sanded the edge of the movable piece so it would nest down onto its (tilted ) adjustment nut. Now I have about .080 inches height at the 12th fret, and .022 inches at the first fret, measured with a feeler gauge. I also got the 12th frets reasonably in tune per the Snark.

I was going to do the sanding procedure on the bottom of the bridge, but there is a spot of felt under each adjustment screw. So the bridge can't lay flat on the instrument top no matter what you do. I'm thinking it might be worth it to get a cheap bridge on Ebay.

DataNick
Apr-10-2014, 7:20pm
Continued good fortune with it Jerry; glad to hear Rob's e-book is helping!...you seemed like a "tinkerer"...

Ben Cooper
Apr-10-2014, 7:28pm
Welcome and good luck! Have fun with it!!!!

Steve Ostrander
Apr-11-2014, 9:03am
If the nut is still intact you can glue it back on.

jerryk
Apr-11-2014, 11:07am
If the nut is still intact you can glue it back on.

*** The nut is alas broken. According to UPS tracking, the replacement arrived in my hometown today at 5:55AM. The way UPS
works around here, I'll get it today *if I'm lucky*.

jerryk
Apr-13-2014, 11:05am
Well, the stuff arrived this Friday. A TUSQ PC-1535-00 nut, a set of little tiny diamond files, a set of slightly larger steel files, a "Gerlitz Guitar care kit". I removed the strings, popped off the old nut ( it came off in pieces ). The new one was the exact correct width and the slots were in the right place. I only had to sand it down because it was so tall. Did that with a little emory board made for sanding fingernails. Fabricated a set of slot saws out of feeler gauges to touch up the slots after it was installed.

Being that the instrument has a zero fret, the nut height is fairly non-critical - the strings just have to bear on that fret. While adjusting I had a thought: what if one could adjust the exact height of the nut so that the pressure on the zero fret was perfect in the sense that it sounded just the same as a fingered fret?

While the strings were off, I cleaned the body, applied conditioner to the fretboard, and laid on a nice coat of carnauba wax. Shiny!

Now Dad's mandolin is playable again, and I can go about learning to actually play it.

Jim
Apr-13-2014, 11:30am
I was going to do the sanding procedure on the bottom of the bridge, but there is a spot of felt under each adjustment screw. So the bridge can't lay flat on the instrument top no matter what you do. I'm thinking it might be worth it to get a cheap bridge on Ebay.
Felt between the bridge and the mandolin top can't be good for the sound, I think replacement bridge sounds like a good idea. I also admire your quest to bring music into your childrens lives. Welcome to the cafe.

Bill Baldridge
Apr-13-2014, 8:00pm
Welcome to the Cafe. I have some of my grandfather's instruments, and to me they are priceless. They are also very difficult to play and sound like they may have been made of cardboard even though they are not. I suspect that I have spent more money than you getting them into playable condition. All that to say, IMHO it is alright to have more than one mandolin in your life: the one you prize and the one you play. Good luck on your journey.

DGW1945
May-13-2014, 5:24pm
Hello,

My name is Jerry Kaidor, and I just found my father's mandolin..... therein hangs a tale.

I'm 60 years old, and have two six-month babies. That's a long story, I won't bore you with it.
Suffice to say that they need to be brought up, and I want music to be part of that. I sing to them a lot.
Can't sing worth a damn, but the babies don't care, and that has been liberating.

I thought to myself - it would be nice to strum some chords on something while I sing. My first thought was an autoharp. I remember the teachers playing them in early grades. It looked easy. Press the button, strum the chord. A modern autoharp gives you 21 different chords. It looked like a playable one would cost $200 - $300 on ebay.

Then I remembered my father's mandolin, sitting in my closet since he died in 1983. Probably harder to learn than an autoharp, but it had one great advantage - I already had it. So up I went to the highest shelf of the deepest closet - yup, there it was.

I pulled the instrument out of its bag, and one of the strings dangled free. Broken at the loop. Luckily, there was just enough string left to form a new loop and get it playing. I found one of the excellent on-line tuner programs and tuned it up.

"Gee the strings on this thing are awful close together. How can I get my right finger between them to strum?" I shook the instrument bag, and a small teardrop shaped piece of white plastic fell out. It said "Fender Medium" on the side. "Oh".

The web yielded up instructions and demonstrations of simple 2-finger chords. Very cool. There were also three-finger chords, but those seem to require that I bend my left hand into a pretzel. Maybe later.

I decided that the repaired string might not last, and a new set would be wise. My handy dial caliper gave me the diameters - ranging from .009" to .027". Hmm, the string sets on the web all seemed to be heavier gauge. I suspected that I might do the
instrument harm if I put in strings heavier than its design. One store had "ghs Ultra Light" strings, which were pretty close ( .009 -.032 ), so I bought two sets of those.

I also indulged in a "Snark SN8" tuner. What an amazing piece of technology! There must be a DSP (Digital Signal Processor ) in it. I wonder if it could help tune my piano?

The mandolin itself is nothing special. It is the "A" style with F holes. Clearly a cheap instrument. The top is three-layer plywood. The various fitments are the cheapest sort of plastic, some of them cracked. There is an extra fret next to the nut, which terminates the vibrating portion of the strings and sets their height. The nut itself is broken between the two E strings, but there is just - barely - enough meat left to keep them apart. I'm thinking it's not worth a whole lot of work - just new strings,
and adjust the bridge. But it sounds reasonably OK to my tin ear, and I can play it till I figure out whether I want to pursue this seriously.

The strings arrived the other day, and I restrung the mandolin. Strings are dangerous. Ouch! I'm glad my tetanus shot is up to date.

I am not a musician in any sense of the word, but I do have a little background. As a child, I endured 5 years of classical piano lessons. I played the cello in HS, played the soprano recorder with friends in college. I also discovered ragtime in college,
and banged out a lot of that on the piano.

I don't have any great ambition for this endeavour - just want to strum chords while I sing to my babies. That could change - I do tend to get sucked into things. But my hands are not the best - I messed them up in the 80's and the 90's doing software development - tendinitis :(.

Today, it looks like I need to scare up a replacement nut. It broke completely off
at the E string. Web research leads me to believe that it's no big deal - with the "zero fret", the nut just sets the positions of the strings from side to side. The strings vibrating quality is set by the zero fret. A quick search through the junkbox unearthed a bar of teflon scrap which might be ideal. If I can actually cut the slots. Teflon is easy to machine, but it is hard to abrade. I have a Sherline lathe & mill......

I don't think I'll be able to buy a nut off the shelf for this thing. A Tusq PQ-1535-00 is just about the right width. But the individual slots will be too wide. I suppose I could file out the bottoms of the slots to capture my instrument's small strings.

It's important to me to get this thing playing as fast as possible, before I lose traction and it just goes back into the closet.You are a great Grand Daddy!