1911 Gibson A4 - What Kind of Condition is it in?

[a.lehofer]

Hi all, this is my first time posting on these forums! I've had a mandolin in my family for three generations and had kind of forgotten about it until last week when I was doing some spring cleaning. I knew that it was quite old, but I decided to do some research to see if I could find when it was actually made. This turned out to be rather easy as the serial number was written inside. Anyways, turns out what I've got is a 1911 Gibson A4 mandolin.
I am wondering what kind of condition it is in. I've played it before and it still sounds GREAT (something that I was told by my instructor; I had, and still have, very little knowledge of what a good mandolin sounds like). Also, it seems to me that all of the pieces are original with the exception of one row of tuning pegs. There are some minor scratches and the original finish on the neck seems to have faded in places, but otherwise it seems to be in good condition.
Judging by these pictures, is the instrument worth anything? I realize that I should probably have it appraised, but I figured I'd ask a few different people and try the interwebs too. The thing has been collecting dust (not literally, as it's been in a case) for years and I have no real reason to hang on to it.
117731
117732
117733
117734

[Jim]

Not a real expert on these ,but $1000 to $1500 or less seems to be about what these go for ,the replaced tuner will lower value some and I don't think it's as old as 1911 because it has a truss rod. The experts here can let you know a better date and price range.

[lenf12]

I'm not an expert either but judging by the truss rod cover as Jim pointed out and the adjustable bridge, I'd have to say it's more likely an early to mid 1920's vintage than 1911. That doesn't really explain the row of Handel inlaid tuners for the G and D strings which were discontinued in 1917. To be certain, the serial number (s/n) on the label and the factory order number (fon) stamped in ink near the neck block inside the body will give an accurate timeframe for its building and shipping dates. The condition appears to be structurally good but extensively worn finish on the back. It's definitely a "player" grade not a "collector" grade mandolin which I would value at the lower end of Jim's estimate above.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[allenhopkins]

If you're right about the serial number and FON, my guess is that it's been re-necked at some point (?). Handel tuners are right for a 1911, but the truss rod isn't. (You could take the cover off and see if there's a truss rod under it; it would be odd, but a later owner might have just screwed a cover onto the headstock, because all the newer mandolins had 'em…)

However, the "The Gibson" logo goes straight across the headstock, which is also a later feature; I believe a 1910's mandolin would have had the logo at an angle.

Serial number and factory order number are the most reliable in fixing the date, since Gibson sometimes messed around with the features of individual instruments, and Gibson often "updated" instruments sent back to them for repair, rather than trying to preserve their original features.

Here's (http://mandoweb.com/Instruments/Gibson-A4+Blackface+Mandolin-1914/1395) a 1914 A-4 at Mandolin Brothers, and you can note the slanted logo and lack of truss rod. Also note they're asking $2.5K for it. A quick Google search on "A-4 mandolin for sale" turns up prices from $1.2K to, well, what Mandolin Brothers is charging.

Yours is a bit of a "mutt" with mismatched tuners, fairly obvious wear, and what is definitely not a 1911-vintage bridge. So $2K's probably out of reach. Please check the serial number and factory order number carefully against a reliable reference, before being certain that it's a 1911. I'm going on the basis that you've done that; otherwise, I'd say it's ±15 years newer than that, and that the Handels were a later addition.

[pheffernan]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the 1911 date is confusion deriving from the patent date on the pickguard clamp and that the instrument is from much later. Mandolin Archive has images of 87190 with a 1931 ship date that has the same script: http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/87190.

117760

[pheffernan]

AcousticMusic.Org has a 1929 A4 with a similar look: http://www.acousticmusic.org/Gibson-A-4-1929-p-930.html.

117761

[John Soper]

Anything is possible with Gibsons, but I thought that they stopped doing black A-4's in the teens. Also the presence of a partial set of Handel tuners is suspicious for a teens original build. Looks like a '30's re-neck job to me.

[Ken Waltham]

I think it's an early A4, since it is black, with a much newer neck on it. ( the logo and truss rod cover).
Value... $1200 to $1600
Ken

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I might add that the pointed shape cut-out pick guard should be pre 1917, the inlaid tuners pre-1918. The bridge probably came with the - truss rod - neck and the F-4 (?) fingerboard.

[mrmando]

A ~1914 A4 (judging from the blacktop and the mid-teens pickguard) re-necked at the factory in the late '20s (straight logo, 3rd fret marker, truss rod, later-style extension, adjustable bridge) does seem to be the best explanation. Maybe the bass-side Handel tuners were recycled from the original neck.

If you can report the serial number and factory order number, we can help you nail down a date. I'd say this worth about $1250 if you want to sell it; if you want to keep it and insure it, you can set the replacement value at $1750 to $2K.

[mrmando]

Come to think of it, since it's re-necked it's unlikely to have a factory order number.

[Bill Snyder]

Come to think of it, since it's re-necked it's unlikely to have a factory order number.

Why? I would not think the neck block would have been replaced just because the neck was.

[mrmando]

Why? I would not think the neck block would have been replaced just because the neck was.
Sorry, if the block isn't damaged and you don't need to remove it, then of course it could remain. Depends on the extent of the damage to the original neck.
117804