Song is too Difficult to learn!

[dusty miller]

After the beginning stages of learning to play can a song be too hard to learn and you are wasting your time or is it just a matter of putting the time and due diligence into playing it and eventually it will come?
I can start to learn tougher songs for instance Dusty Miller, Get up John, Ashland Breakdown but I can NEVER get them up to speed. If I can play them slow then it stands to reason that eventually I should be able to play them fast but that never seems to happen. Are they too difficult? Do I need to play another million repetitions and be patient or stick to songs I find easier, throw my mandolin in the woods, what? Work on something a month and not get it up to speed it starts to get frustrating.

[yankees1]

Just keep playing at the tempo where you can play it correctly and smooth. Eventually, your tempo will speed up ! How do I know ? I and many others have gone through this very same thing----and I still do ! Don't give up "IF" you really like the tune !

[Steve Zawacki]

Used to have a sticker on a beater guitar which said, "When all else fails, lower your standards."

I run into this all the time. Sooner or later it stops becoming trying to memorize chord/medley/pick patterns for any song and just becomes the ear, mind and fingers working in unison. A lot depends on whether it's a fun song to me, and then stubbornness kicks in. If it's a so-so song, I may ask myself why I'm going through the effort.

Sometimes trying to be so traditional to the song (mainly, remaining in the original key) is a problem in itself. Often I'll change things to G or C for my convenience and voice, then later switch to "traditional" once I feel comfortable in my "home" keys and want to try it in original format. I don't have a "bluegrass" voice and normally stay rock and R&b, so changing keys to match me for a few "higher" tunes just feels right.

If music is a fun thing, then keep it fun. If music is a means of making a living (in full or part), then it's practice, practice, practice.

[dang]

I have worked on Brilliancy for something like 6 years and I still can only hit the fast descending triplet run in the B part at something like 70 bpm. Every once and a while I hit it cleanly at a faster tempo, but that run just kills me most of the time...

At one point I had almost gotten Russian Rag worked out fully, but slowly. If I had stuck with it maybe I could at least remember how to play some of it!

[ralph johansson]

I have worked on Brilliancy for something like 6 years and I still can only hit the fast descending triplet run in the B part at something like 70 bpm. Every once and a while I hit it cleanly at a faster tempo, but that run just kills me most of the time...

At one point I had almost gotten Russian Rag worked out fully, but slowly. If I had stuck with it maybe I could at least remember how to play some of it!

I suppose 70 bpm means 70 bpm in 2/2 time (70 bpm in 4/4 would be painfully slow). I transcribed Brilliancy from Howdy Forrester's recording almost 50 years ago, and I think I can still play it at 90 bpm. I differ from the recording in a few places but the mandozine transcriptionis very wrong in some places, especially in the B part. There are no triplets to speak of, except a few pickups in the A part.

I suppose you are referring to Sam Bush's arrangement. If you can't do it up to speed, why not do a simpler version, e.g., just repeat the B part?

[UsuallyPickin]

Well ..... a couple of things..... if you have reached a point where you know a tune so well you don't have to think how you play it you know how to play it then you have to look, or have someone else look, at your technique. Then there is the point that we all can't be Howdy Forrester and / or Sam Bush. We all have our personal limitations. And while we may practice, investing time and money in the process of fine tuning our musical skills, we still have to live with our physical and mental limitations. Here's to enjoying playing. At the most accomplished level I / we / you, can manage. R/

[bigskygirl]

I usually practice with a metronome set between 180-190 depending on the song and try a few measures at a time. Then when I go back to where I can play comfortably and smoothly - around 150 it actually feels slow.

I crash.....a lot at the higher speeds but over time I am getting faster. I used to think 100 was fast.

Other methods say ratchet up the speed a few beats each day but I found I get faster......faster.........if I play at the higher speeds and crash. I don't get upset when I crash and the only ones who hear it are the cats and hubby who doesn't really know music anyway.

Try simpler versions and stop thinking....thinking always messes me up. If I just let my fingers and ears communicate I play much better.

Just keep at it until you find a method that works for you.

[Bertram Henze]

You're not seriously trying to say you can't play a song that has been named after you, are you? ;)

Joke aside, when there is a hard speed barrier, it's usually one of four reasons:

1 - picking hand too slow: can your fretting hand play it fast on it's own if you leave the picking away?
2 - fretting hand too slow: can you pick the same note over and over in the tempo required?
3 - left/right sync problem: does your sound get muted and flubby because you pick before fretting?
4 - mental block: do you forget what to play and get derailed into inventing new and uninteded melody parts?

Once the problem is identified it can be worked on.
- 1, 2 are due to bad technique; I had #1 once and got over it by changing my pick hold.
- 3 can be overcome by declaring one hand as the leading, music making hand, while the other is just helping along; I got past it by imagining my fretting hand was the leader, the picking hand just an enhancer following the leader.
- 4 is a matter of patience, relaxation and playing slow. Often the wrong part of the brain (declarative memory) tries to stay in control instead of leaving everything to the much faster part (procedural memory) which works subconciously. You can walk and run without thinking about what to do with your legs, and playing works just like that.

[Elliot Luber]

There are songs that may initially be "over your head" in terms of difficulty, but practicing things that are over your head is a good way to get better fast. You may find it more rewarding to practice things that are not as challenging in the beginning because you'll have the gratification of being able to show people what you know, but if you are determined to play something, I say "GO FOR IT." :mandosmiley:

[abuteague]

Can you play it slowly with your eyes closed?
If not, I've found that reading and processing what I'm supposed to be doing and doing next is slowing down my actual playing speed. If it isn't memorized, then speeding it up will be difficult.

[sgarrity]

So many variables here. The tunes you mentioned are not what I'd consider overly difficult tunes on the whole. Now, the arrangement you're playing May make it a bit harder. But one of the beauties of Monroe's style was he simplified the melodies of those fiddle numbers to make them easier to play fast. There's a quote Monroe said, "I'm not a fast player. I'm a quick player." He cut a lot of corners to pick up some speed.

I'm a firm believer that in order to play fast you have to practice playing fast. You have to push yourself beyond your comfortable speed limit. Now, that's means at first it'll be sloppy and you might crash and burn. But if you keep at it you should slowly build speed. I practice tunes both slowly and methodically focusing on clean notes and tone. Then I practice as fast as I can focusing on speed. It's worked for me over the years. Of course, YMMV.....

Another suggestion.....are you taking any lessons? You could always participate I the song a week group. The people there are very supportive and helpful with some constructive criticism when asked.

[Tobin]

After the beginning stages of learning to play can a song be too hard to learn and you are wasting your time or is it just a matter of putting the time and due diligence into playing it and eventually it will come?
I can start to learn tougher songs for instance Dusty Miller, Get up John, Ashland Breakdown but I can NEVER get them up to speed. If I can play them slow then it stands to reason that eventually I should be able to play them fast but that never seems to happen. Are they too difficult? Do I need to play another million repetitions and be patient or stick to songs I find easier, throw my mandolin in the woods, what? Work on something a month and not get it up to speed it starts to get frustrating.

I'd be willing to bet that everyone here has suffered from a similar frustration at some point. For some, a month may be plenty of time. For others, it may take 6 months, maybe even a year before it comes.

There's one particular fiddle tune that I like to play that requires some fancy fingerwork, and I went for a long time not being able to break the 180 bpm mark. It's just a good tune, though, and I'll play it at whatever speed suits my mood. Or, as has happened a couple of times, the guitar player gives me an intro that's faster than I would choose, and I'm forced to hit that speed or crash-n-burn. And I've crashed-n-burned a couple of times too! But I like to play this tune, and it borders on the point of people rolling their eyes when I want to play it, because I've played it so many times. But because I've played it so many times, and I no longer have to put much thought into what my fingers are doing, it has consistently gotten better, smoother, and faster. Yes, I still do occasionally get a hiccup in my execution of it if my hands are tired or sweaty, or there are other factors at work. But my speed has greatly improved on it, and it took a heck of a lot longer than a month to get to that point.

Keep plugging away at the tunes which challenge you. Even beyond the point that you are starting to tire of them. You'll look back a year later and see the improvement.

[Jack Roberts]

I don't know about "up to speed" as a benchmark for a tune being too difficult to learn. I can't play at TT (Thile Tempo), but I play a lot of tunes that sound pretty good to me at the more leisurely old-guy tempo I play. In fact, I've found that most tunes I play are more enjoyable to listen to and play at a slower tempo. Some tunes are beautifully crafted, but the beauty can be lost in rapid-fire playing mode.

We err when we mistake carnival side-show speed alone for virtuosity. There are the true virtuosos who can play "up to speed" and phrase beautifully, but they are the top tier professionals.

I hate the reading the you-tube comments regarding a piece performed beautifully by an amateur musician where the commentator states: "I can play it faster than that!" Most "up to speed" playing is not as good as well crafted but slower playing.

Since I don't expect ever to play well "up to speed", I work on dynamics, phrasing, and nuance of rhythm rather than machine gun playing. Having said that, I surprise myself with rapid fire triplets and runs once in a while.

My fiddle teacher tells me the secret to playing fast is playing slow. It is more fun to play well than to play fast. When I get to fast and well, I will turn pro.

[Jack Roberts]

... Or, as has happened a couple of times, the guitar player gives me an intro that's faster than I would choose, and I'm forced to hit that speed or crash-n-burn. And I've crashed-n-burned a couple of times too! ...

My guitar player does that too. When that happens, the bass player (the true musician in our band) gives him a nasty look and he slows down to the speed he's supposed to play, as defined by the bass. It's great to have a bass player! Just like the guitar player can play some tunes faster than the mandolin player, the mandolin player can burn out the guitar player on other tunes, so we are fortunate to have a bass player to keep us all playing nicely with each other.

[OldSausage]

All these posts are very helpful. I would also add that once you can get one or two of these fast tunes "up to speed" you will be able to do it with most tunes you work on after a few weeks of practice. But it can take you many years to get just one tune up to speed, especially if your goal is to play it cleanly without simplifying.

I honestly don't think you have to be a "top tier professional" to play these tunes up to speed (after all, I am nowhere near being in that ballpark, but I can do it on tunes I've practiced a lot), but you do have to put a lot more work in than most people would really imagine it takes.

[farmerjones]

Never do I not have a tune I can't play. Usually it's a couple tunes. Strangely, Dusty Miller is a perennial of mine too. I think mostly because I don't have a good model/example. I have heard some great examples but I've none on file. You'd be right to infer a lot stems from starting with a good model, then getting that into one's brain. I know i'll eventually get it or not. I know it takes time, and don't beat myself up about it. Keep it light. Keep it fun. I know there's a lot of tunes I do know. I do play everyday, but everybody does that, right?

[dusty miller]

You're not seriously trying to say you can't play a song that has been named after you, are you? ;)

Joke aside, when there is a hard speed barrier, it's usually one of four reasons:

1 - picking hand too slow: can your fretting hand play it fast on it's own if you leave the picking away?
2 - fretting hand too slow: can you pick the same note over and over in the tempo required?
3 - left/right sync problem: does your sound get muted and flubby because you pick before fretting?
4 - mental block: do you forget what to play and get derailed into inventing new and uninteded melody parts?

Once the problem is identified it can be worked on.
- 1, 2 are due to bad technique; I had #1 once and got over it by changing my pick hold.
- 3 can be overcome by declaring one hand as the leading, music making hand, while the other is just helping along; I got past it by imagining my fretting hand was the leader, the picking hand just an enhancer following the leader.
- 4 is a matter of patience, relaxation and playing slow. Often the wrong part of the brain (declarative memory) tries to stay in control instead of leaving everything to the much faster part (procedural memory) which works subconciously. You can walk and run without thinking about what to do with your legs, and playing works just like that.

Well I can play Dusty Miller and the others just can't seem to get them to a speed where I would feel good about playing them with or for someone. I first breakdown the song into parts and memorize each part and then put them together. I try to get my right hand going and have my left hand keep up. Finally I seem to hit a speed plateau and it doesn't seem to get any better.


So many variables here. The tunes you mentioned are not what I'd consider overly difficult tunes on the whole. Now, the arrangement you're playing May make it a bit harder. But one of the beauties of Monroe's style was he simplified the melodies of those fiddle numbers to make them easier to play fast. There's a quote Monroe said, "I'm not a fast player. I'm a quick player." He cut a lot of corners to pick up some speed.

I'm a firm believer that in order to play fast you have to practice playing fast. You have to push yourself beyond your comfortable speed limit. Now, that's means at first it'll be sloppy and you might crash and burn. But if you keep at it you should slowly build speed. I practice tunes both slowly and methodically focusing on clean notes and tone. Then I practice as fast as I can focusing on speed. It's worked for me over the years. Of course, YMMV.....

Another suggestion.....are you taking any lessons? You could always participate I the song a week group. The people there are very supportive and helpful with some constructive criticism when asked.

I'll certainly give your method a try, push the speed limit. Maybe I can figure out what part of my technique is causing this continued problem.
I don't take any lessons, if I knew somebody I would. I am aware of some online resources. I have tried the song of the week group but it's tough to measure up with the skill level being demonstrated over there.

[almeriastrings]

I'm a firm believer that in order to play fast you have to practice playing fast.

+1

Then, work on ironing out the rough bits. Don't always go from slow to fast - try it the other way around as well.

This does not mean accepting sloppy playing on an ongoing basis, but you sometimes just need to get used to breaking the 'speed barrier'. That is a technique all of its own, and you need to know how to do it. It might be sloppy at first, but work at it. You can be fast and clean.

[Jim Garber]

I have a good handful of what I call "graduate-level" tunes that I still can't play close to moderate tempo. Among them are many choro tunes and Jethro's Tune which I will prob never be able to play at the tempo he played it. I just continue to work on these and they are usually my test cases for any mandolin i am trying out. I think I will perfect these eventually by my eighth or ninth decade or life on this earth. :)

[dusty miller]

Never do I not have a tune I can't play. Usually it's a couple tunes. Strangely, Dusty Miller is a perennial of mine too. I think mostly because I don't have a good model/example. I have heard some great examples but I've none on file. You'd be right to infer a lot stems from starting with a good model, then getting that into one's brain. I know i'll eventually get it or not. I know it takes time, and don't beat myself up about it. Keep it light. Keep it fun. I know there's a lot of tunes I do know. I do play everyday, but everybody does that, right?

I have a great model of a slow version of Ashland Breakdown done by one of our members. I listened and watched what he was doing and was proud of myself that I figured it out but then hit the get it up to playing speed with others brick wall. I start to wonder if I'll ever get them up to speed and what I'm doing wrong.

[almeriastrings]

It can be a case of worrying too much about absolute precision and perfection when you first 'accelerate'.... get the speed first, then 'tidy it up'. As OS says, once you have done it a few times it gets (much) easier, and you'll wonder why you ever thought it was difficult. Just aim at breaking that speed barrier with a couple of tunes.... try something not too hard to start with. Don't stop if you make mistakes. Just work through it. Keep going.

[John Flynn]

Some ideas I follow in this situation, not meant for everyone, but works for me:

1) If you are performing as the lead melody instrument, kick it off at your pace and that means slower than you are inclined to do, because with a group, I have always found I have a tendency to start even tunes I play well at too fast a tempo. Most jams, and even a lot of performers, play traditional tunes too darn fast, IMHO. These were originally dance tunes. You couldn't dance to these tunes at the tempos they typically get played, unless you had a nervous disorder!

2) If you are not the lead instrument and someone else kicks it off too fast, you don't have to play all the notes. Mike Marshall has a lesson on Artist Works that shows how there are main notes you can go to, and do double stops with, that are in the melody, but they are not the whole melody. Also, there is no shame in playing rhythm. Let the lead instrument do all the hard work. You have fun!

3) If you are playing alone and just trying to gain speed, it typically is not the case that you can't play the whole tune at the speed you want, it is that you can play parts of it at speed and there are tricky runs that you stumble over. Mike M. says to isolate those runs, even if they are only three notes, and practice each of them as a drill and speed them up to tempo. Then reintegrate them into the whole tune and find the next tricky passages. Once you have mastered all the "tricky bits" individually at speed, you will soon be able to do the whole thing.

[dusty miller]

I don't know about "up to speed" as a benchmark for a tune being too difficult to learn. I can't play at TT (Thile Tempo), but I play a lot of tunes that sound pretty good to me at the more leisurely old-guy tempo I play. In fact, I've found that most tunes I play are more enjoyable to listen to and play at a slower tempo. Some tunes are beautifully crafted, but the beauty can be lost in rapid-fire playing mode.

We err when we mistake carnival side-show speed alone for virtuosity. There are the true virtuosos who can play "up to speed" and phrase beautifully, but they are the top tier professionals.

My fiddle teacher tells me the secret to playing fast is playing slow. It is more fun to play well than to play fast. When I get to fast and well, I will turn pro.

A breakdown and certain tunes are supposed to be played at a certain tempo. I don't have to be a speed demon I just want to be able to reach a speed where I could play them with and for others. That's what I mean by up to speed, faster isn't better if it's a muddled mess. I don't think you have to be a pro, there are many players here that have a firm grasp of it.

[Jack Roberts]

A breakdown and certain tunes are supposed to be played at a certain tempo. I don't have to be a speed demon I just want to be able to reach a speed where I could play them with and for others. That's what I mean by up to speed, faster isn't better if it's a muddled mess. I don't think you have to be a pro, there are many players here that have a firm grasp of it.

For those tunes, I use the old metronome technique: I play the tune along with a metronome slowly until it is just the way I want it, then move the weight down a click, lather, rinse, and repeat until I'm at the stated tempo. Sometimes it takes a long time...

I do object to the tempo at which a tune is played being used as a figure of merit to characterize how well the tune is played.

[dusty miller]

For those tunes, I use the old metronome technique: I play the tune along with a metronome slowly until it is just the way I want it, then move the weight down a click, lather, rinse, and repeat until I'm at the stated tempo. Sometimes it takes a long time...

I do object to the tempo at which a tune is played being used as a figure of merit to characterize how well the tune is played.

Totally agree with you, thanks for the help! I've seen that in action on a local tv show and the guy was playing was too fast for his own good and it sounded like if he would just slow down a bit you could hear the notes instead of a muddled mess.

[yankees1]

For those tunes, I use the old metronome technique: I play the tune along with a metronome slowly until it is just the way I want it, then move the weight down a click, lather, rinse, and repeat until I'm at the stated tempo. Sometimes it takes a long time...

I do object to the tempo at which a tune is played being used as a figure of merit to characterize how well the tune is played. I absolutely agree ! A lot of players and spectators seem to judge the players skill by how fast he/she can play it !

[foldedpath]

It's worth spending years to get it down, for the truly great and difficult-to-play tunes. Why settle for just playing the easy stuff? If it tickles your ear, then go for it!

But don't beat yourself up over it, either. Spend as much time as it takes, and that's different for all of us.

I can get most fiddle tunes fairly quickly up to dance tempo (and I'm talking mostly in the Irish traditional music context here, but it's not that different in other genres). Most of these tunes are designed to be easy to play, once you have a baseline of technique built up.

But there are other, more difficult tunes that I've spent literally years working on, and I still feel like I'm in the early stages of getting it down. I may never get there on some of them, but I'll get closer before I join the Choir Invisible. And that's enough. Tunes in this "amazing but difficult" category are worth shooting for, I think, even if you'll never actually master them. It's the journey that matters. And hey, you might actually master that tune!
:)

P.S. Don't cheat on tempo though. Some tunes do need to be played at a certain tempo to come alive, even if it takes years for you to get there.

[Bertram Henze]

one of the beauties of Monroe's style was he simplified the melodies of those fiddle numbers to make them easier to play fast.

That's the point I forgot to mention. If you can play only so many notes per second, play them but let them contain a bigger part of the tune. The knack lies in knowing what to leave out.

[almeriastrings]

That's the point I forgot to mention. If you can play only so many notes per second, play them but let them contain a bigger part of the tune. The knack lies in knowing what to leave out.

Monroe was the ultimate master at that. He had such a deep understanding of traditional fiddle tunes, that he could 'nail' very essence of one while seemingly doing very little. It is like a great artist who can produce something fantastic with just a few brush strokes.

[JeffD]

Check that you are not making things too hard for yourself.

On more than one occasion I worked out a tune by ear and just could in no way play it at anywhere near the speed at which it would sound good, and never at the speed I heard it. Then I found out the tune was in an alternate tuning, and I was going at it in standard tuning. In alternate tuning it was a piece of cake, and I was at least up to a reasonable speed already.

Another example if I am learning something by ear from a recording, not having seen anyone play it, and I get stuck, very often it is the case that I am trying to do stuff in first position that is easier up the neck somewhere. One hint I have noticed is that if part of the tune is real easy and a phrase or half a part is just impossible, I look for a way to play the troublesome part up the neck.

Sometimes going down a string and up the neck for a note or phrase is sooo much easier to get to or to transition from.


Sometimes, when I hit the wall a few times, I need to step back and think, is this really how its being done? More often than somewhat it isn't.

[dang]

I suppose 70 bpm means 70 bpm in 2/2 time (70 bpm in 4/4 would be painfully slow).

Yes.


I suppose you are referring to Sam Bush's arrangement.

Is there any other? :grin:


If you can't do it up to speed, why not do a simpler version, e.g., just repeat the B part?

I do if I have to play in public, but if I didn't struggle with this passage I wouldn't relate to the OP ;)

[journeybear]

It's like any task that seems overwhelming at first. Break it into smaller parts, work on each part, particularly the ones that give you the most trouble, then put them all back together. Divide and conquer!

[ralph johansson]

Yes.



Is there any other? :grin:



I do if I have to play in public, but if I didn't struggle with this passage I wouldn't relate to the OP ;)

From the many examples on YouTube it seems that most people know only Bush's version, and a lot of them believe
he wrote the tune. I learned it from Howdy Forrester's album Fancy Fiddlin' Country Style, which was recorded in 1958.
The three parts were put together from two traditional hornpipes, Trafalgar and Passaic.

At the time I learned it, in 1964 or 1965, I was also trying to learn the 5-string banjo so I worked out parts A and B in melodic style and later taught to a banjoist I played with in the late 60's. We recorded it in 1969.

It's the kind of tuned that Monroe would never approach, with lots of melodic detail, scales, arpeggios; every note counts.
It does not lend itself to Monroe's sketchy treatment of fiddle tunes. It is also slower than most Bluegrass fiddle numbers, around 90 bpm seems ideal.

There are a few more gems on Forrester's album: High Level Hornpipe (in Bb), Rutland's Reel (in am; he wrote it in honor of Robert "Georgia Slim" Rutland) and Fiddler's Waltz (by Benny Martin, in G).

[dusty miller]

It's like any task that seems overwhelming at first. Break it into smaller parts, work on each part, particularly the ones that give you the most trouble, then put them all back together. Divide and conquer!

The funny thing is I don't feel overwhelmed at first I think " I'm getting this Monroe tune down, cool." But then when you start to get deeper into it and that's when you start to realize why Bill Monroe was Bill Monroe and what made his playing what it was. I know what you mean though and agree with you on the divide and conquer.

[Killian King]

I try to learn tunes that sound cool to me, but most often the simpler versions just don't cut it. I've definitely bailed on a few tunes because they were beyond my level at the time, but I've often found that I can play them when revisited in the future.

I find this to be encouraging rather than discouraging.

[Mark Wilson]

Do I need to play another million repetitions and be patient or stick to songs I find easier, throw my mandolin in the woods, what? Work on something a month and not get it up to speed it starts to get frustrating.Learning new songs and getting them up to speed is a goal but honestly for me if it were my only goal I'd be equally frustrated.

I love playing the mandolin. I get a lot of satisfaction playing simple variations of slow and melodic melodies. Savoring the sound of pick on string. It's a great little instrument and I love it for what I can play on it now.

Another million repetitions is for my wife to fret over. I'm perfectly fine doing just that. Meanwhile, play what you CAN play with style and grace. Thats a goal that may just lead to an awareness that will give you more satisfaction than raw speed.

[Eddie Sheehy]

If you argue for your limitations you get to keep them...
Push the envelope.

[roysboy]

All GREAT tips and suggestions in this thread so I'll only offer one thing I don't believe was touched on . I recall learning to play my first tunes on a VERY inexpensive entry level mandolin with a flat fretboard . It was a struggle to play clean , let alone ' up to speed '. Then I played an Eastman mandolin with a radius fretboard and EVERYTHING came together ....I could play cleaner and faster with such ease it actually startled me . I bought that Eastman ( although I no longer have it but that's another story ) Point I'm making is that you may want to assess whether or not your mandolin may be a part of the issue . It certainly was for me . The radius neck lowered the frustration level quite significantly for me . Just a thought ....

Last thing I'll throw out there. If you are like a lot of members here, you listen to a lot of great mandolin music which features the BEST players in the world . Tough acts to follow when you are learning by listening to THOSE players . Most of those guys have been picking since the womb . I have to remind myself of that every so often . I have about 30 years of catching up to do on most of those guys . But then there's Sierra Hull........OMG !

[John Flynn]

roysboy

+1 on the radius. When I traded the flat fretboard Alvarez I had been playing for 10 years for a Rigel, that compound radius fretboard really amped up my playing immediately. I could do stuff that just wasn't working before. I have to say though, fast forward 14 years from that point and it doesn't make that much difference to me now. I can play flat or radius and I don't notice the difference much.

[8ch(pl)]

The notes to the William Tell Overature are in my mandolin. I just haven't figured out how to get them out

[yankees1]

"the arrangement you're playing May make it a bit harder. But one of the beauties of Monroe's style was he simplified the melodies of those fiddle numbers to make them easier to play fast. " As Sgarrity said above, the arrangement could be making this song difficult for you. As an example, there are many arrangements for Soldiers Joy all the way from an old time simple melody to a Bluegrass version with twice as many notes. The arrangement I play is a Bluegrass version by Pete Martin with a lot more notes. I have been struggling for quite a while but keep increasing the tempo and now I am up to 110 beats per minute on a good day. Some days less ! It helps me to practice occasionally at a fast speed that I really can't keep up ( 115-120) but when I go back to the tempo I have been working on I find that I can play at that tempo somewhat better. I practice with Band in the Box so I can change the tempo up and down as I practice and it's easy to monitor my practice speed. I will never reach the tempo of Soldiers Joy that a lot of pickers play at ( 125-130) but if I can play smoothly at 110 or 115 I will be satisfied. I could rearrange this Martin version in order to play it faster but I like it and will stick with it and over time my playing will improve.

[Carl Robin]

I think everyone has encountered this situation. There's a lot of good advice here. I'm struggling with a tune in B-flat right now. My strategy is to have maybe a dozen tunes that I'm working on, and cycle through them as I'm practicing. That way when one gets frustrating, I'll practice something else for a while, and then go back to the challenging one later. This kind of learning, of patterns and dexterity can't be forced, only chipped away at. It takes as long as it takes. Metronome of some sort is essential. I have been using an Ipad app called "drum beats" because it sounds better to my ear than plain metronome clicks, or beeps.

[Larry Simonson]

One thing that helps me is to play lightly, keeping it at low volume until your muscles develop their memories, then you may be able to progressively dig the pick in deeper.