What breaks or solos have you learned note for note?

[mgmnyc]

Or, in other words, what do you consider the Stairway-to-Heaven-solo of the mandolin world?

[jaycat]

I can't think of anything that awful.

[Ron Cox]

I recently started working on "Jack Haggerty" someone tabbed out for me. Except for the speed, I think I have it nailed. It is my first one though. Well, not counting a little thing someone showed me for "bile'm cabbage down"

[Freddyfingers]

None. I play them as I go, making them up. Its bad enough that at times I have to play other peoples music, why steal even more?

[Rex Hart]

Steffey's intro on "Every Time You say Goodbye".
Sam's break On "Blue Railroad Train"
Skaggs' break on "The Old Homeplace"

[AlanN]

Plenty.

Monroe solos off the Master of Bluegrass record
Dawg's Janice solo after the head
Doyle Lawson's Lover's Concerto
Bobby Osborne's solo on Baker's Farmyard Swing
Jimmy Gaudreau's Classic JAG
David Harvey's Cruisin' Timber solos
loads of others

I love learning others' solos
I love making up my own

edit: just saw Rex entry, those two/too (actually three) :mandosmiley:

[JeffD]

Love Chris Thile's treatment of Tennessee Waltz (this video after 48 seconds and especially after 3 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf9A5RF96kg)). It is tasteful, not blisteringly brilliant for its own sake, but not unimaginative.

Now I don't qualify, strictly speaking because I don't note for note anyone. But I have learned a lot from this solo, well the whole piece actually, in terms of how to be innovative without losing the feeling of the song, how to stay tethered and yet get out there.

Of all the breaks in all the tunes I have heard, this has to be one of the best.

[Veikko]

Monroe solos from Joe Carr book.

[OU1]

I like to learn a bunch of them....I usually have to find the tab and then modify it from there to try and sound like the songs that I have heard from the original artist. Without tab, I'm lost....that gives me a starting point.

[Amanda Gregg]

Tony Watt teaches a class he calls "the three most important practice techniques ever" in beginner and advanced versions. For advanced players, the three practice techniques were: 1) use a metronome, 2) record yourself (ouch!), and 3) transcribe other people's solos, i.e. learn them note for note.

There are lots of reasons to learn other people's solos. One is to develop your ear. A second reason is to learn to play in a manner that is stylistically appropriate. Third, it's a great party trick. :) That nth time through Pike County Breakdown, when everybody is getting a little bored, whipping out the classic Monroe break turns heads and gets laughs. I love it.

If you like a break, learn it. The Amazing Slow Downer is very helpful.

[JeffD]

There are lots of reasons to learn other people's solos. One is to develop your ear. A second reason is to learn to play in a manner that is stylistically appropriate. Third, it's a great party trick. :) That nth time through Pike County Breakdown, when everybody is getting a little bored, whipping out the classic Monroe break turns heads and gets laughs. I love it..

Lots of folks do it, and lots of folks recommend it. Many swear by it.

[TonyP]

I've learned so many note for note it would be silly to list. For me there is no better way to break the brain calcification than to learn somebody else's break. Monroe right now is my Everest because of the really heavy syncopation. Going in and coming out in time is a real challenge on some of his breaks. I love how those breaks change what comes under my hands when I go to play with somebody.

[John Flynn]

Everyone should learn what they want to learn the way they want to learn it. This post only applies to me. YMMV.

The only thing I learn note-for-note is the basic melody, unless I am doing some parody to make a fellow musician laugh. I do my own embellishments and if there is a solo involved, that will be my own. The quotes below express better than I can how I feel about it:

Chet Atkins - "Once you become predictable, no one's interested anymore."
Louis Armstrong - "Never play anything the same way twice."
Miles Davis - "Never play anything the same way once."
Billie Holiday - "You can't copy anybody & end with anything. If you copy, you're working without any real feeling.
Cecil Taylor - "I discovered very early that it wasn't quite enough for me to imitate people."
Bill Evans - "You give up your own personality when you imitate somebody."
Bill Evans - "Keep searching for that sound you hear in your head until it becomes a reality."
Roy Haynes - "You must own it to play it."

My guess is that Monroe didn't copy anyone note-for-note.
Basho - "Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."

[mandroid]

none, I try to get the melody in my head, then fake/improv something .. Maybe it's the ADHD :confused:

[Prelude]

Tony Watt teaches a class he calls "the three most important practice techniques ever" in beginner and advanced versions. For advanced players, the three practice techniques were: 1) use a metronome, 2) record yourself (ouch!), and 3) transcribe other people's solos, i.e. learn them note for note.

There are lots of reasons to learn other people's solos. One is to develop your ear. A second reason is to learn to play in a manner that is stylistically appropriate. Third, it's a great party trick. :) That nth time through Pike County Breakdown, when everybody is getting a little bored, whipping out the classic Monroe break turns heads and gets laughs. I love it.

If you like a break, learn it. The Amazing Slow Downer is very helpful.

That seems like some great advice.

[roysboy]

I can't think of anything that awful.

So there IS someone else on the planet who thinks that solo on "Stairway.. " is WAY overrated ?

[bigskygirl]

One of the things that drew me to Bluegrass is the improvisational aspect of the genre. I typically learn a version of the song and then thru repetition develop my own style, not always intentionally...lol.

I listen to a lot of versions of the song and try to emulate the things I like.

[AlanN]

So there IS someone else on the planet who thinks that solo on "Stairway.. " is WAY overrated ?

Oh yes

FOt3r_aNNxE

[farmerjones]

i'll admit to not being able to sight read, so I would not know what note-for-note is. That being said. Having recorded quite a bit. I am able to precisely repeat myself break-wise, time and time again. Don't know if that counts or not?

[mandocrucian]

Or, in other words, what do you consider the Stairway-to-Heaven-solo of the mandolin world?

:disbelief: That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic heading "What breaks or solos have you learned note for note?"
- - - - - - - - - - -

Exisiting recorded solos are the etudes of non-classical musics. Working on replicating them teaches you the stylistic vocabulary, the articulation and phrasing, playing through chord progressions, etc. etc. You learn the characteristics that make one player immediately identifiable and different from other (immediately identifiable) players. It's not just the "pitches" - that would sound like a midi playback. It's about tone quality, changes in volume, slurring, vibrato and all the other elements of 'finesse'.

Getting these out of books or from tabs is good....you still have to put the solo(s) in your head as well as your hands. For complicated stuff (or from other instruments) it may be the most feasible route.

However doing your own transcriptions is even better for you. You have to use your ears and try to find the same notes that the soloist played. And there will be plenty of trial and error and "near misses" before you find some of those licks. However, you are sharpening up your ear, and you have tried out other passages that may have worked just as well. If you also are putting your results down on paper, then you'll have to work out the rhythmic timings in relation to the bar lines and do a lot of counting.

Solos played on Other Instruments: Whether you get these out of a book or do it yourself, these present additional challenges. The different tunings, or fretboards, or mechanical methods of playing pitches (sax/horn, lyre, accordion buttons, piano keyboard, etc.) all influence the pitch patterns which naturally fall beneath the fingers on those other instruments and influence the evolution of their respective playing vocabularies. Which means? - - - that stuff is going to lay out differently (and possibly initially more awkwardly) on a mandolin neck, and it's up to you to figure out the riddle/puzzle of where to play things on the neck and the most effective fingering(s) to retain the attack/nuance/phrasing of the guitar/piano/horn/etc solo you are putting on your instrument. Believe me, start working out guitar solos on a mando neck, and it'll open your mind to other ways of approaching the neck. With guitar source material, when there are chords/double/triplestops you may have to eliminate (or substitute) pitches (or start doing some string-splitting). Often it is impossible to completely replicate things (and in the same register), so the goal is to get as close to the original in function and feel.

Now, remember, these are ETUDES (which means "a musical composition, usually instrumental, intended mainly for the practice of some point of technique".) They are examples of a particular player's style, and something you can use to extrapolate your own ideas within that particular groove/style/feel when it seems appropriate. Or, there are some solos that are just so effective and iconic that it seems almost a requirement to play them. How can you do "Johnny B. Goode" without the Berry guitar solo, which has become as integral as any of the lyrics? Everyone now plays "the solo" as a lead in to "their own" solos. There are plenty of rock tunes where it is appropriate (imo) to replicate (more or less) the intros, or hook phrases. or instrumental interludes, without being a "tribute band".

Now, as I've hit the "preview post" button, I see other postings which have appeared while I'm writing this.

The only thing I learn note-for-note is the basic melody, unless I am doing some parody to make a fellow musician laugh. I do my own embellishments and if there is a solo involved, that will be my own. The quotes below express better than I can how I feel about it:

Yes, There is exclusive copying of one particular musician by various pickers, people trying to play just like Tony Rice, or Grisman, or Monroe or (much more difficult) Django or Coltrane...... I think that is what those celebrity musician quotes are referring to, rather than learning solos of various players. Jazz educators such as Jerry Coker and David Baker consider transcribing an essential.

I think this quote from guitarist Eric Johnson sums it up:

Who are your main influences?

Eric Johnson: There are a lot players out there who I've found influential such as Chet Atkins, Wes Montgomery, Jimi Hendrix, Jerry Reed, John McLaughlin, Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck. There's a lot of different ones.

I like to take different people's styles and mix them all together and create my own. I'll take somebody's guitar tone and use that with somebody else's technique and somebody else's choice of lines to put it all together to make your own style. It's impossible to be totally original so you just have to find a different way to amalgamate all the different stuff together to make your own thing

Niles H

BTW - These are some of the primary non-mandolin players' solos I've examined and dissected. (And why my mandolin playing is different and distinctive from other mando players.) And I still learn existing solos/arrangements.

Guitar: Richard Thompson, Jerry Garcia, Jimi Hendrix, SRV, John Cipollina, Clarence White, Tony Rice, Bill Kirchen, Paul Burlissson, Mike Campbell, Mississippi John Hurt, BB King, Clapton, Santana, Jorma Kaukonen, Angus Young, Ritchie Blackmore, Django, Charlie Christian, Albert Lee, Ry Cooder, Martin Carthy, John Renbourn, Chuck Berry, Knoppfler

Fiddle: Dave Swarbrick, Vassar, Chubby Wise, Michael Doucet, Scotty Stoneman, Sugarcane Harris, Grappelli

Other: John Kirkpatrick, Flaco Jimenez, Maria Kalaniemi, Dr. John, Don Helms, Mike Auldridge, various misc pedal-steel gtr, various old-time banjo

[Dave Hicks]

Recent birthday presents were Dix Bruce's Gypsy Swing & Hot Club Rhythm, so they're next on the list, along with Joe Carr's Rhythm Changes book.

D.H.

[Rex Hart]

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I think the intent of the question is what breaks are so iconic on the mandolin that you play them note for note or at least close to it. This happens a lot on banjo (think Earl's breaks). Really not a difficult question.

[Shelagh Moore]

Also none... it's not the reason I play music.

[Amanda Gregg]

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I think the intent of the question is what breaks are so iconic on the mandolin that you play them note for note or at least close to it. This happens a lot on banjo (think Earl's breaks). Really not a difficult question.

Rex is right.

Here's one for bluegrass players: Monroe's intro and solo to Muleskinner Blues.

[JeffD]

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I think the intent of the question is what breaks are so iconic on the mandolin that you play them note for note or at least close to it. This happens a lot on banjo (think Earl's breaks). Really not a difficult question.

If that is the question, the answer is none. :)

[Mike Steadfast-Ward]

So there IS someone else on the planet who thinks that solo on "Stairway.. " is WAY overrated ?

Yep, you are not alone on that. Also can't stand 'House of the rising sun'.

[Mike Steadfast-Ward]

So there IS someone else on the planet who thinks that solo on "Stairway.. " is WAY overrated ?

Yep, you are not alone on that. Also can't stand 'House of the rising sun'.

[Robert Smyth]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Todd Collins' "Monroe Instrumentals," which has note-for-note transcriptions of Kenny Baker's fiddling on a lot of the Monroe recordings. I consider this book to be absolutely essential if you're into bluegrass mandolin. In standard notation and tablature, I've gotten hours and hours of study out of this one book. He's recently released a new book of fingerbusters called "Fretboard Studies for the Improvising Mandolinist."

Both of these books should be required study material for mandolinists.

[Cue Zephyr]

Monroe solos off the Master of Bluegrass record


I've learned only two tunes off that record - Old Danger Field and Old Ebeneze Scrooge. I'd be very happy to learn his breaks/solos note-for-note off that album!

[Earthwood]

Chris Thile's intro to "Ode to a Butterfly". Can't play it at his speed of course :mandosmiley:

[UsuallyPickin]

If you want to learn solos note for note check out Dave Peter's book of mandolin transcriptions available through Elderly Music.... R/

[stevedenver]

well I don't know about the 'stairway' analogy
the closest tune I can think of is maybe 'will the circle' , or maybe 'old joe clark' in terms of everyone learning them...



but, note for note, mebbe?, but mightily close

ill fly away -oh brother version
skaggs get up john D open tune-long !
bushs get up john in A (with Emmylou and no retune)-short and repetitive
sams -cattle in the cane-took me forever to memorize for some reason
steffys cluck old hen-learned it and forgot and play it differently now

chasin skies-sierra-not as clean as THE WOMAN but getting there
watsons blues-bill with doc
old Dangerfield-sarah
Jerusalem ridge-bill
Rye whisky-punch brothers /mr T-not difficult but the groove is tricky

dooley break by dean webb
old home place "

Because (lennon)-Grisman-possibly the most difficult to play beautifully, for me
Dawg's Waltz-may not have all the trems perfectly where they ought to be , but close
grisman break to catfish john
Kentucky mandolin-BM -purt neer close-more like yonder mountain tempo and groove

there may be more, but I take liberties, shameful liberties............

[swain]

Or, in other words, what do you consider the Stairway-to-Heaven-solo of the mandolin world?

Scales and appeggios.

[Pasha Alden]

I fear I have very little bluegrass to mention: but I like to improvise and make up my own. Did that recently when I played the old South African favourite "The Lion Sleeps Tonight." Also played "Paint it Black" of Rolling Stones, and Sting's Fields of Gold. So my lead and solo still slow, but coming along just fine. I like to listen to others play as I think it enhances the speed and get the genre in which your playing to sound as it should.

[Ron McMillan]

Chris Thile's astonishing intro to Dolly Parton's I Get a Kick Out of You on her Little Sparrow album. Even after countless hours of application, and even using Amazing Slow Downer to slow it to a pace that I can at least begin to recognise the runs Thile makes, I'm still struggling to get up to about 70% of original speed. And yes, it's a great practice tool with useful runs in the key of Am, elements of which can be applied to other tunes in the same key.

ron

[stevedenver]

wow ron
that's something!

[JeffD]

Playing someone else's break, note for note, has got to be hard. So many breaks are composed spontaneously, based on what the performer does well. If someone is real good at miner arpeggios, well don't be surprised if they show up in his (her) breaks.

They themselves would struggle to play someone else's break note for note.

[wsugai]

I've mentioned this before, but the break for "Sitting On Top of the World" that Matt Flinner includes in his All-Star Bluegrass Jam (Mandolin) book is really worth the time and effort to memorize. Challenging, but very manageable if you try, and it will make you sound just great!

[Pete Martin]

Anything I hear that I like I transcribe and learn. Did this first with a LOT of Sam Bush mando and fiddle stuff, then Benny Thomasson, Terry Morris (Texas fiddlers) and Mark O'Connor, Kenny Baker, Bobby Hicks, Chubby Wise, Monroe, some Scaggs, David McGlaughlin, Compton and Stuart Duncan fiddle and mando (a terrific mando player as well, great Monroe player).

My current fav is Wes Montgomery in the Jazz world. I have a few of his transcriptions on my Jazz site. Before getting on the Cafe now I was transcribing his Twisted Blues (Riverside version) solo.

I always tell students the best way to learn is to transcribe and LEARN TO PLAY the solos of your favorite players. You learn SO MUCH about music that way.

[Pete Martin]

Wow! 2,222 posts. Am I full of hot air or what???!!!??? :))

[mandocrucian]

Anything I hear that I like I transcribe and learn.

I always tell students the best way to learn is to transcribe and LEARN TO PLAY the solos of your favorite players. You learn SO MUCH about music that way.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to spend time transcribing players that leave you blase. :grin:

[Eddie Sheehy]

Jerusalem Ridge and Lonesome Fiddle Blues. Working on Swing in Am and Nuages...

[catmandu2]

I'm not transcribing solos anymore, but when I did I was into Eric Dolphy and Sonny Rollins--those two alone kept me occupied for years

[mgmnyc]

I'm not transcribing solos anymore, but when I did I was into Eric Dolphy and Sonny Rollins--those two alone kept me occupied for years

I think it would take me years to transcribe a couple bars.

[JeffD]

Thinking out loud here...

I am trying to distinguishing between learning the breaks of our heroes for our own edification and learning, which is a respected technique in learning the music, and playing the breaks of others note for note at a jam, which doesn't seem like such a good idea.

Using someone else's improve as a starting place, or to get ideas, or to study how one may take advantage of various ideas, yea that all makes sense.

It seems to me though, that inserting a note for note memorization, of anything, where we could be taking an opportunity to take a break and get experience actually improvising, does not do us any favors learning to improvise.

[mgmnyc]

Thinking out loud here...

I am trying to distinguishing between learning the breaks of our heroes for our own edification and learning, which is a respected technique in learning the music, and playing the breaks of others note for note at a jam, which doesn't seem like such a good idea.

Using someone else's improve as a starting place, or to get ideas, or to study how one may take advantage of various ideas, yea that all makes sense.

It seems to me though, that inserting a note for note memorization, of anything, where we could be taking an opportunity to take a break and get experience actually improvising, does not do us any favors learning to improvise.

I'd say that's a good distinction. Copy and transcribe for learning purposes, but take the opportunity to experiment when jamming. Even the most creative improvisers in any genre have a big supply of licks and patterns they can (and do) lean on. The notion that learning other people's solos will limit our creativity is a myth, I think.

[stevedenver]

Thinking out loud here...

I am trying to distinguishing between learning the breaks of our heroes for our own edification and learning, which is a respected technique in learning the music, and playing the breaks of others note for note at a jam, which doesn't seem like such a good idea.

Using someone else's improve as a starting place, or to get ideas, or to study how one may take advantage of various ideas, yea that all makes sense.

It seems to me though, that inserting a note for note memorization, of anything, where we could be taking an opportunity to take a break and get experience actually improvising, does not do us any favors learning to improvise.

Its not an 'either or situation', IMHO. There is something wonderful about hearing something familiar live. Its impressive in that way, "I can do this too" and the listener recognizes it. It is in itself its own challenge. It is not a substitute for improv.

By learning a break note for note, just like a rock cover, with all its subtleties and intricacies, I find it really helps me in a couple of ways.

First and foremost, ear training and precision and careful thought.

By copying someone else, I learn something new, a new thought, a new phrase, embellishments, simply someone elses POV AND careful attention to technique or style, on a tune, all of which I can incorporate into the bag of tricks, but it starts with more than the simple melody. By learning precision copies, I force myself to learn something I didn't invent-ie I get out of my ruts. It forces me to be mindful.

It doesn't mean that's what I play when I improvise, just that I can, or, could at one point.

[AlanN]

When JD Crowe was still fronting The New South, whenever they did Old Home Place, Dwight McCall picked the Skaggs break, note for frikkin note.

[ralph johansson]

I've transcribed more tunes than solos. My motive for learning the mandolin was the tunes that I transcribed from Howdy Forrester's Fancy Fiddlin' Country Style: Rutland's Reel, Brilliancy, and High Level Hornpipe (in am, A, and Bb, respectively).
Lots of difficult string crossings on the guitar, easier on a fifths-tuned soprano instrument.

Then there were simpler tunes like Snow Deer and Silver Bell, some Monroe tunes, like Rawhide (I heard lots of noes that weren't really there, because I needed them),
Crossing the Cumberlands (a banjo tune; I play the first part very faithfully, locking my index in 3rd position, to emulate the fifth string g). Moonlight Waltz - one tune that I almost managed to learn in real time.

On my old turntable I could slow down to half speed and decipher tricky passages. When I learned Jerusalem Ridge I had a new turntable without 16 2/3 rpm and my ears grew.

One of latest songs I transcribed was Slow Poke by Chilton Price. I took it from a YouTube video by Pee Wee King's band.
They do it in G, I decided that Bb was a much more convenient range, with some nice chord soloing towards the end.

Solos? Almost 40 years ago I transcibed some of Charlie Christian's Minton solos. I had a book with transcriptions, but a lot of 8va signs were left out so I decided to throw the book away and transcribe the solos myself. Also I don't read very well in keys like Db (playing is a different matter).

I found Johnny Gimble's solo on Corinne, Corinna with Merle Haggard interesting, especially bars 3-4, so I had to get it down.

In the 60's Kapp released a number of records in the name of Bob Wills - actually it was just a bunch of session musicians with Bob hollering; pretty stiff stuff and some it not associated with Wills at all. Harold Bradley played the guitar and I found his solo on San Antonio Rose, in C, a bit of a challenge. There was a passage against the G7 chord that stumped me until I realized he was using a whole-tone scale.

And when I wanted to learn Monroe's blues language I took off from the first four bars of Bluegrass Pt. 1.

If a passage stumps me it could be for one of two reasons - that details don't really matter, or that something really important is going on.

[JeffD]

Tunes now that is different. :) I have transcribed a couple of truck loads of tunes, from recordings I made playing at various jams and sessions, mostly, and a few from records and now CDs.

[JeffD]

When JD Crowe was still fronting The New South, whenever they did Old Home Place, Dwight McCall picked the Skaggs break, note for frikkin note.

With or without attribution?

[AlanN]

Surely T-I-C, Jeff....right?

[JeffD]

Surely T-I-C, Jeff....right?

;)

[John Ritchhart]

Sam's break on Eight More Miles to Louisville
Butch Baldasarri's Midnight on the Water
Howdy Forrester's Big Sciota

[Phaedrus157]

Wow, Thanks for that tip. I just picked up the Kindle version for $20 from Amazon. I'm taking Sharon Gilchrist's Beginning Bluegrass Mandolin Course and am moving along with the tunes but was looking for some solo transcripts to help me get started with some solos. Great resource.

[Charlie Bernstein]

The opening repeat phrase of "Vincent Black Lightning 1952."

[Charlie Bernstein]

Or, in other words, what do you consider the Stairway-to-Heaven-solo of the mandolin world?

That's a different question. The ones we've learned note for note aren't necessarily popular tunes. Most folks who don't play mandolin would name "Maggie May."

[stevedenver]

What an ancient thread


Ill fly away, oh brother where art thou version.
Georgia mail, same bush
Sailin shoes into crossroads, more or less.

Wish you eee here, jim richter

Sorta close on sierras old dangerfield

Others, in the long hallway of the past….lol.
Wonder what id have written in 2014……probably SHEL’s take on zeppelin , mandolin wind,…..?

[tmsweeney]

Joe Walsh's Mandolin Jazz course teaches the classic solos, Django on "Minor Swing", I think Lester Young on "Lady be Good" I haven't really gotten very far with it because its very heady for me.
It is very much like reading sheet music - without the sheet music.
I use a lot of sheet music more than I learn by ear, but my ear is actually getting better, I think I am just focusing on listening better.
I understand the players that would rather just do thier own thing and I do encourage that
However there are so many good reasons listed by so many previously here,
I also encourage everyone to find some solos that you like or might like to sound like and give it a whirl, weather that be by teacher or sheet music or by ear or slow downer. There 's no dead line or test at the end.

and gosh I haven't listened to "Stairway" in ages, I'm pretty sure I still like it.

[James Vwaal]

Joe Walsh's Mandolin Jazz course teaches the classic solos, Django on "Minor Swing", I think Lester Young on "Lady be Good" I haven't really gotten very far with it because its very heady for me.
It is very much like reading sheet music - without the sheet music.
I use a lot of sheet music more than I learn by ear, but my ear is actually getting better, I think I am just focusing on listening better.
I understand the players that would rather just do thier own thing and I do encourage that
However there are so many good reasons listed by so many previously here,
I also encourage everyone to find some solos that you like or might like to sound like and give it a whirl, weather that be by teacher or sheet music or by ear or slow downer.

Yeah, Django is good for mandolin phrases and so are some of Stephane Grappelli's simpler phrases. I never learn an entire solo note for note, but take two or three measure phrases that I tie together with something worked out myself. I find this especially useful for Gypsy swing tunes like "Daphne", "Swing 42", "Swing Gitane", "Dark Eyes", and "Devojko Mala". The latter tune is very similar to "Minor Swing" but has more of a melody line and lyrics.