Need Some Encouragement

[PaulaJ]

That's all. Lesson didn't go well today and I am beginning to wonder if my instructor even wants to teach me. I practiced quite a bit this week and had all my licks down and just couldn't produce it for him. I felt like an idiot and he didn't really even give me anything to work on this week.

I have wanted to learn to play mandolin for a very long time. I knew it would be difficult. Perhaps I didn't realize just how difficult. I did NOT expect to forget things I already know.:disbelief:

[brent1308]

It never goes as well as it did at home by yourself until one day, performing in front of others, whether it be loved ones or a bunch a strangers, it becomes the best performance of your life. Keep on the horse and eventually...

[Bob Clark]

Hi Paula,

Don't be overly discouraged. Learning an instrument is not a straight-line proposition. You will have good days and bad days, but when you look back over a longer time-span, you will see progress. The main thing is to keep at it and have confidence. In time, you will improve.

Maybe your instructor was having a bad day. It might be best to give him the benefit of the doubt. But if this becomes a pattern with him, find another instructor. If you repeatedly find him discouraging, he is not the right instructor for you. It's not necessarily true that he's a bad instructor, although he might be. It could simply be that your styles don't align. Bottom line is that if he is discouraging for you, you need a different instructor.

Stick with it. You will find that you make progress over time and it can be a source of great joy to you and to those who hear you play.

Best wishes,

Bob

[PaulaJ]

Thank you, guys. You are probably right regarding instructor. I like him and this was not typical. I am mostly disappointed in myself. I had it all down, or so I thought.

[bigskygirl]

Don't be too discouraged, generally I can play something 50 times and the 51st version is awful....it happens and I try not to be too hard on myself. I have lessons every other week and sometimes I play well and other times I get nervous and can't produce a note.....the instructor knows and he's there to support me. Like another poster said, if you don't jive with the guy find another. There are too many online and Skype options nowadays to put up with a poor learning situation.

I don't know the guy or your relationship but he may not have assigned you anything new thinking you could practice what you already have....maybe he's trying not to overwhelm you. I had an instructor once who gave me something new every week even tho I was falling behind.....I found a new instructor.

This week my mandolin was in for some work so I thought I'd get out my guitar and play some, it was pretty horrible and I almost gave up but as the week went by I got better again and managed to get thru a few tunes I thought I had forgotten.

When I get frustrated I remind myself I'm doing this to have fun....

[Astro]

Keep playing despite yourself. Thats the only way to move forward.

...or in my case, sideways.

[roysboy]

Thank you, guys. You are probably right regarding instructor. I like him and this was not typical. I am mostly disappointed in myself. I had it all down, or so I thought.

For what this is worth to you Paula ....
I've been a professional musician my entire working life . I'm a guitarist , a bassist , I've played drums and I sing lead vocal as well as run a small home studio . I know none of that indicates how capable I am so I'll just say that in the eyes and ears of many musicians from the top to the bottom of the food chain , I'm considered MORE than capable or the bookings and sideman calls wouldn't keep coming . Hope that doesn't sound egotistical ..it isn't meant to .

My point is only that several years back I decided to learn to play the mandolin . I practiced for close to a year before I felt confident enough to attend a jam session . I pretty much froze up at every turn forgetting simple fingering for a chord change , entire "B" sections of the standards I THOUGHT I had down cold . And let's not even talk about SOLOING !! The pressure of having to perform for other musicians for the first time on a 'foreign' instrument ( and I don't mean PacRim ) was overwhelming ....particularly after playing with and for so many people in my life .. I expected so much more from myself . I was literally red in the face at several junctures that evening. Humbling ? You'd better believe it . Surprising ? Absolutely . Discouraging ?...I suppose I could have let myself become discouraged . But I didn't. I had a real nice new mandolin , I'd logged time on it ...I'd watched videos , practiced technique and I wasn't about to crawl under a rock after all of my impassioned efforts thus far. I went back to it harder than ever. I practice daily ...I listen and watch other mandolinists . I read Cafe members' thoughts ....listen to their pointers and experience and within no time I felt ready to jump back into the firing line more confident than ever. Sure ....I made mistakes again ....but not as many and not as drastic . I was improving ! That's all I wanted to feel .
HANG IN ! Especially if you enjoy playing and listening to mandolin players . It DOES get LOTS better . BEST OF LUCK ...

[Pasha Alden]

Hi there, I think I know how you feel. I have been managing to play chords very well. However, in the beginning I could not imagine how to hold down all those strings with my slender hands. Also had a mind block about playing lead. Then suddenly, since playing with a band and being forced to play lead, I have suddenly managed play melody more fluently and even to get some reasonable tremolo going. I have been playing for a year and two months. Now, I see patterns in the scales I play and my fingers find the path so much easier. I fear it's continuous practice. About the instructor, perhaps it was a difficult time for both. However, if there is not enough support or encouragement, by all means try and make a change. As the first part of my message suggests, it can feel like quite some time before playing becomes easier, but it does happen.
I would give it another month or two at least. However, having said all this, it's mighty hard in the beginning.
Good luck

[capitano Flint]

Time is the best instructor :mandosmiley:

[Mark Wilson]

I did NOT expect to forget things I already know.:disbelief:IMO, this is quite normal when playing in front of others early on the learning process. We don't expect it to happen so completely and that makes it worse. Stick to it. It is hard but well worth it. :)

[Elliot Luber]

Learning is a very weird process. I practice and practice and get better and better, and then I suddenly start playing worse and forgetting the stuff I already knew -- and then suddenly I have a real breakthrough to the next level. It's always darkest before the dawn.

That's just the way my brain works, your mileage WILL vary -- but it's possible your brain works in a similar fashion to mine. Stick with it, you may soon be surprised with a breakthrough of your own. Don't worry about the steps back -- just forge ahead. You're going to be good at this.

[Jim Garber]

If you like this instructor, talk to him and tell him that you are discouraged -- in fact, tell him what you told us here. You are taking lessons to learn. Ask him for some suggestions to better learn what he is teaching you. If he is not receptive or sympathetic, then start looking around for another teacher. Teachers and students both need to have patience and if you have the will to play, you will. It is a two-step forward and one step back process.

I don't know how long you are playing, but you also might consider getting together with other musicians at your level and playing some too. I am not sure what style of music you are learning but even finding another friend to play some of it helps a lot.

Good luck. You will do fine. Stick with it!

[Carl Robin]

Everyone here has good advice. We have all been there. I thought of a post from one of my facebook friends comparing difficulties to arrows: You have to be pulled back first, before you can fly forward. Just keep focus and aim.

[Ron Cox]

The first time I played along with anyone I was fortunate enough to be able to Jam with close friends and my brother. None of us pros, or even that good. We sounded awful. Then we just each started playing the same three chords and got in rhythm. GCGCGDG. (same as Bile'm Cabbage Down).

We all took turns playing little "solos/breaks" and it sounded ok, but mostly I got comfy enough to really play what I knew in front of other people. To this day, whenever I jam with anyone, it's the first thing I ask to do. It's a nice warm up and can be fun, but I think it gets you in sync. You might try it with your instructor for a few minutes, then he can drop back and listen to you and you're already playing and warmed up.

Just a thought.

[Jon Hall]

I teach mandolin and guitar so I understand your frustration. Everyone is usually nervous playing for their teacher. It will really help you if you can practice some immediately before your lesson. You will be as warmed up and relaxed as you possibly can.

I'll crawl out on a limb and say that if I had a student that wasn't able to play, correctly, the material I had given previously I wouldn't think that it would be a good idea to give more new stuff to work on. It could lead to musical indigestion. However, I would try to diagnose the problems they might be having and help them overcome them.

[PaulaJ]

THANK YOU!!! Everyone, this is what I needed. I expected slow progress, but not as much steps back. If it is more or less normal, then I can persevere. Funny, while practicing at lunch today, I practically couldn't play it wrong. I agree, he probably wants me to keep practicing the song (Whiskey for Breakfast, ftw) for the next lesson. He is a good teacher. He has me getting beter at listening to a song and figuring out the fingering. It is only taking me a night to learn the basic lick.

I have been taking lessons for a month now, so four 30 minute lessons so far and a good amount of practice most every day. I am not sure how basic jam sessions get or where I would find such a thing. I will put it out there - I am in the Atlanta area and a total beginner, metronome on 60 for clear, precise notes. I don't know many songs, but the GCGCGCGC thing isn't impossible for me. It might be a lot of fun.

Again, thank you everyone for the encouragement. I really needed it :grin: ...

[mtm]

lots of good input above ... I found that I couldn't progress fast enough to make weekly lessons useful, so I subscribed to the Mike Marshall online lessons and although I didn't take advantage of all it has to offer, it was definitely more my 'speed' ... you can go at your own pace. I let the subscription lapse because I wasn't able to master enough to justify moving forward, so I've taken the time to get better at the lessons I got to. Now I think I'm at a point where it makes sense to get back to the lessons. It's a marathon, not a spring....

[Jim Garber]

PaulaJ: you say "he probably wants me to keep practicing the song (Whiskey for Breakfast, ftw) for the next lesson" -- didn't he make that clear. If I were you i would call and ask him what you should be doing. No point in guessing. Sounds like he may be a good teacher but you guys have to communicate: you should ask questions, he should make suggestions and give clear instructions.

As for Whiskey Before Breakfast (I think that is the correct tune title, right?) Get that in you head. Sing it. Find some good recordings of it -- it might help to have it on mandolin but it doesn't have to. Search on youtube -- I am sure there are dozens of versions. Make a CD of it to listen in your car. Hum along and sing it a lot. Then play it slowly so you get it on the mandolin. it will happen for sure and it will get easier.

I would say, stick to the task at hand. Don't worry about chords yet.

[PaulaJ]

Ah, yes Whiskey Before Breakfast. Good suggestions, Jim. I don't know the tune very well.

He sort of cast it aside and started on some scales and arpeggios. He got distracted and the lesson was over. I really don't know if I am supposed to do scales or practice the song or both. I have the time to do both, no problem. I was a little flabbergasted. I think perhaps he was having a difficult day. I am more than willing to let that go. I will just be prepared next time to specifically ask what to practice if it isn't clear to me.

[Jim Garber]

You are probably right. Maybe he teaches a bunch of students. I would think after a day of teaching, I might be a little tired. I think as a teacher I would want my students to be clear but I would appreciate some feedback about how I was teaching and what was expected for the next lesson.

It is funny about teaching tho. I haven't taught lessons in years but when i did I found it interesting to look at the learning process and to break it down into small digestible fragments. it is sometimes hard to do when playing a few decades and to try to remember what it was like to start out.

Communicate... from both sides...

[belbein]

PaulaJ, I was in the same position you were a couple of weeks ago. Of course you got a bunch of suggestions, all of them great. But here's the one that did me the most good:

Get that [song] in you head. Sing it. Find some good recordings of it -- it might help to have it on mandolin but it doesn't have to. Search on youtube -- I am sure there are dozens of versions. Make a CD of it to listen in your car. Hum along and sing it a lot. As Jim and other people told me: if you can't sing it, you can't play it. And if you get stuck in a particular place singing it you're going to get stuck in the same place playing.

The other thing I found really helpful: Once you know it well enough to sing it, sit down with the music, but without your instrument, and play "air mandolin". I know it's thoroughly ridiculous, but it works.

Oh, one last thing ... the first song I was supposed to learn on mandolin was "Whiskey Before Breakfast." I guess everyone is supposed to know it. I didn't. And I find it very confusing. NOT a simple song, in my opinion.

[stevedenver]

hey
its easy to choke

theres a break in your concentration due to being scrutinized.
its a different process going on in your brain, I know...
it will take some discomfort to overcome it, but you will


keep at it.
and

you are playing for YOU
nothing withstands perseverance, nothing
and

imho
at the cost of lessons, always get something new, always get another tab or whatever, just because, you can work on a few things at a time, over time.

you shall succeed, im sure.
best!

[PaulaJ]

Yea, WBB doesn't seem like an easy song. I would have preferred Wayfaring Stranger. This is the first thing I taught myself when I first started.

http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/mandolin-tab/There_Is_A_Happy_Land.htm

LOL! That is more like a beginner's song. I didn't know WBB before either.

[Timbofood]

Peaks and valleys, happens to everyone, don't quit, keep chugging along. That which was lost will be found have a little faith in yourself, it will all provide dividends beyond your dreams! Remember, "PLAYING music" is what it's called. You will be fine.

[Loretta Callahan]

Thanks for asking for encouragement. The cafe folks always come though with stellar advice that I never tire of reading. Into my 4th year of being pretty diligent about playing mandolin and what I can offer is that this eight stringed woodpile has definitely become a relationship: a deep one, not a casual one.

This instrument has brought me to tears, joy, anger, frustration, elation, pain, pleasure ~ the whole enchilada. What I've learned is to stick with it and not expect instant results. One of the things that keeps me going is that I think about how much better I'll be playing a year from now. It's true. I play much better than I did a year ago … even though I might suck at playing what I've just learned.

[PaulaJ]

I just got an interesting encouragement in the mail today. My dad sent me a letter commenting about the ACME bowlback restoration that Dave Hynds did for me last year. I had linked it on Facebook. He was complimentary and encouraged me to keep up my lessons, also something he must have seen I was doing on FB. It was my Dad that got me fascinated with them when I was a kid. Guess I have to keep going now, if my Dad tells me to ;) ...

[Craig Montgomery]

Congratulations on picking up a really wonderful instrument! I'm very new here exactly because I've started learning to play just a month or two - It's the most fun I've had in a long while (insert your joke here -> _____________)! I've been playing, performing, and learning new music since I was 8. You can add 50 years to that now, or so they tell me.

If I can suggest some things that really have helped me for a lifetime of learning music: 1) Figure out your best method of processing new material. Are you someone who learns better by ear or are you attached to the notes? Somedays I can only learn while staring at a chart or sheet music, other days it seems I can only pick something up by listening to it. Doesn't matter, if one doesn't work see if the other will - the point is: figure out your strong suit and try that first, move on to the next if the first isn't working. 2) Always practice in front of the toughest critic you will ever face: a recording device. I never practice without using the "voice memo" feature on my phone. It's merciless and it keeps me from convincing myself that I've got the part down even though I've only made it through the exercise 3 out of 5 times without an error and, unlike your teacher, it's much easier to hurl across the room! 3) Play the whole tune through at the beginning and end of the practice session but in between focus on a chunk at a time to perfect. Make sure you can start off and finish strong when you're in the home stretch, for sure, but take it a bit at a time. It's amazing how much faster and better you get to know your practice pieces doing this. 4) Learn the music. If you play it enough you'll find yourself not needing the chart. This is where that whole "chunk-at-a-time" thing helps. It's a great feeling to know the material cold! That's it!

1. Learn how you learn
2. Play for your audience (recorder)
3. Play it great - bit by bit.
4. Pay attention to what you're playing and what's coming next - learn the tune.

This won't be easy the first few times but it helps to build discipline and to listen to yourself critically. If it sounds good on "tape" you can carry that confidence into your lesson with you. Your instructor is there to impart knowledge (wisdom - if you're lucky), offer up challenges, and help you through the rough bits. Use them but remember who you're really playing for.

Good luck - go get 'em!

[dulcillini]

Paula J.:

I know exactly where you are. OK. Here is a news flash. Mandolin is challenging, especially if you want to play well. I have paid for 2 years of lessons to "unlearn" a lot of bad habits I picked up by leaning on my own. It will come. Stay with it. Sometimes it is just a matter of the moment. Some days, I can sit down and hit every note of every song I know exactly correct. Other days, I can try to play the same songs and my fingers are like sausages ! Don't know why. I just accept it and move on. I get a little better each lesson, sometimes it is barely noticeable. Do not give up. Most good musicians will tell you that it is about 20% ability and about 80% work ethic and desire. Press on !

[hank]

Hi Paula, as you can see from the many encouraging post that we all need encouragement at some point in our desire to play mandolin. The desire you have now is slowly being transformed into determination. The same thing had to happen to all of us who are still here encouraging you now. The good news is the confidence you learn in music performance will spill over into other areas of your life in a very positive way. You mentioned your mandolin being a restored bowl back. Restored can mean a lot of things but without a doubt I can tell you the most important thing in the beginning is that your mandolin has been set up to play very easily. The high string tension of the double string sets makes a poorly setup instrument very difficult to play at any level of proficiency. I would have your instructor play your mandolin and see if he agrees that the instrument was set up to play easily after the restoration.