New player instrument advice

[danmc91]

Hello,

I'm looking at buying a mandolin sometime in the next few months and am seeking some advice. It will be played by both me and my wife and neither of us have touched a mandolin before. My wife is a viola player (yay, tuned in 5ths) and would like to learn mandolin and I'm a guitar (among other instruments) player (eek, new fingering for me) who would also like to learn mandolin. Neither of us is a professional but have been musicians for decades each. Our "performances" are likely to be just us having fun at home with ourselves and family. That said, we both appreciate the difference between playing a good instrument versus a bad instrument and we both play pro level instruments (at least on our primary instruments).

So I think what we're looking for is something that will easily be a better instrument than we are players (even several years into the future) without going totally crazy. I've read some good reviews of the Kentucky KM-505. Is this a reasonable choice for something that will avoid frustrations with poor action, fret board not in tune with its self, reasonable tone, tuning pegs that slip, etc?

Anything else I should be looking at? Am I in a reasonable price point for the quality I'm looking for? I'd rather save a year longer and get an instrument that won't just be frustrating if that is what it takes. It took me 4 guitars to hit a pro level instrument and instead of getting frustrated in a year like the first 3, I still love it 30 years later.

Thanks
-Dan

[Steve Ostrander]

The km505 is good, but the km900 is better. You don't say what your budget is. If you are willing to buy used, there are all sorts of possibilities. Members will be chiming in soon with other suggestions.

[shortymack]

The 505 is more than enough for your situation, its a great mando...starter or not. Sure the 900 is better, but so is...and...and....well, you get the point (you get what you pay for generally, the 900 is almost twice as much, but is it twice as good? Id say no, the laws of diminishing returns apply). One thing however that is the most important factor of all is it being properly set up by a professional. That is the make or break aspect.

For starters most will recommend the 'big 3'...Kentucky, Eastman and the Loar. All are a great choice just make sure you either buy from a reputable dealer who does a setup (ie; The Mandolin store, Folk Musician, Eldery's), or used from a cafe member who generally will have had theirs set up prior.

Good luck and happy picking!

[Ken Olmstead]

The KM-505 is a great mandolin! It has a more modern sound than the KM900/950's more "Loar" oriented voice.

You will need to decide if you want a flat or radiused finger board and what kinds of music you want to play. If you want to play bluegrass (as well as other music) then I would say a Kentucky would be great. However for custom shop playability and a beautiful sound, consider a Redline Traveler mandolin built here in the US. They sound simply fantastic and play like butter and are only about $700.

[bratsche]

Welcome to the Cafe.

Your wife might prefer a mandola. You might, too, for that matter. Mandolins have crazy short fretboards... :))

bratsche

[Bob Bledsoe]

I was in your position a little over a year ago and had narrowed it down to Eastman, Kentucky and Loar. I played a bunch in the stores and narrowed it further to Eastman.... Then I started seeing threads about JBovier which convinced me that I might get something better than the Eastman I was about to buy. I pulled the trigger on a JBovier F5 Tradition and am very glad I did. In my opinion, it's by far the best mandolin for around $1000...
That being said, you can always get a better deal if you're willing to buy used. Good luck in your search!

[bayAreaDude]

I'd save for a used Collings MT.

[danmc91]

The km505 is good, but the km900 is better. You don't say what your budget is. If you are willing to buy used, there are all sorts of possibilities. Members will be chiming in soon with other suggestions.

I think the budget is somewhat flexible. I'd rather wait and buy something I won't just be frustrated by. But I don't need something that is a super collectors item or high end pro.

[Mike Arakelian]

The variety of mandolins that are available can be a bit mind boggling at first. The "big three" - The Loar, Kentucky and Eastman are good choices. but then, again, so is Breedlove, JBovier, Weber, Collings, etc. etc. etc. I would offer a couple of suggestions; first, get out to as many GOOD music stores and look at and play as many mandolins as you can get your hands on. Check not only the sound, but also build quality, fit and finish, and then price; second, look at the classifieds here religiously as well as the various makes and models offered by the Cafe' sponsor stores-you'll start to learn names, models, and prices pretty quickly. Last, when you think you have an idea of what you might want, I.E. an A style, F style, f hole, oval hole, etc. talk to places like Folk Musician or The Mandolin Store. You'll get excellent advice and service, and you'll be sure that the mandolin that you buy will be very well set up!!! Good luck and welcome to the Cafe'.

[Mike Arakelian]

Double post...sorry.

[danmc91]

The KM-505 is a great mandolin! It has a more modern sound than the KM900/950's more "Loar" oriented voice.

You will need to decide if you want a flat or radiused finger board and what kinds of music you want to play. If you want to play bluegrass (as well as other music) then I would say a Kentucky would be great. However for custom shop playability and a beautiful sound, consider a Redline Traveler mandolin built here in the US. They sound simply fantastic and play like butter and are only about $700.

No idea on flat vs radiused although my knee jerk reaction is one with a radius simply because I haven't touched a classical guitar (flat) in ages and my guitar has a radius.

Do the comments about paying a pro to set it up apply as well to the Traveler or is that more for some of the non-US made instruments?

Thanks
-Dan

[Folkmusician.com]

The Redline Traveler should be setup well and not need additional work. All of the imports do need work. :)

[Ken Olmstead]

Do the comments about paying a pro to set it up apply as well to the Traveler or is that more for some of the non-US made instruments?

Thanks
-Dan


The Redline Traveler should be setup well and not need additional work. All of the imports do need work. :)

Robert with the strait poop...again!

Dan, the Traveler comes from Steve ready to play.

Keep in mind, that the vendor you choose to buy an import matters. Stores like the Mandolin Store and Folkmuscian will spend some time to make sure the instrument shows up very playable. Remember though that budget import goods only have so much margin and you may still need to spend some $ with a local guy for a thorough set up. However, buy from amazon or MF and it is likely that the instrument will be virtually unplayable without some setup!

Now after a good set up, the imports will be 90% of anything out there. You pay big $$ for the extra 10%. Not that it does not have value, just sayin' that the imports being built now in China are generally quite good!

[Steve Zawacki]

Ken's comments about Steve Smith's RedLine Traveler are spot on. I recently acquired one via the Cafe Classifieds, made in 2009 and smooth as silk. Ken's comments about the imports rank high as well. The import F-style (The Loar 520) I bought new (thank you, Robert!) has performed very well, attesting to the value of darned good set-up including a superior quality inspection. If you decide on the Kentucky, getting it from a vendor who does the quality assurance checks and set-up can really be the difference between a fun instrument and a profanity-maker.

The Redline Traveler is no pipsqueak, as you can see from the photo below which shows the Redline (bottom), two The Loars (400 & 520) and a Fender 101 (laminate).

116335

[Austin Bob]

Dan,
If you go to the home page of the mandolin cafe, you will find links to the sponsors listed on the right side. My advice is to check their online inventories, then give a few of them a call. Sometimes, you might find a sleeper that way, or even a return, blemished model, etc.

[Bill Baldridge]

As has already been mentioned, go play some mandolins. Based on the musical experience and level of instruments you report, surely you wouldn't buy another guitar without playing it first. You already know the difference in tone, sustain, and projection between an arch top guitar with f holes compared to a Martin D series. You will find significant differences between a flat top mandolin with a round or oval hole compared to a carved arch top mandolin with f holes. Contours of necks vary as do body sizes and shapes. Others are giving you their advice regarding value for money and the need for a good set up. Unless you want to set yourself up for going through four mandolins as you did with guitars, go play some mandolins. Good luck, and welcome to the Cafe.

[DataNick]

My 2 cents: a great "pro-level" instrument at beg-intermed price is this JBovier http://www.themandoshop.com/pages-jbovier/J-A5S-SG-11714-759.html

If you don't mind A-style, you can't touch a European Spruce carved top, flamed Maple back/sides, tone-bar braced, dovetail-neck joint mando for this price. It fits perfectly what your desires are IMHO.

Best to you and your wife on your mando journeys...

[Elliot Luber]

The flame on that is not significantly different from my Eastman.

[DataNick]

The flame on that is not significantly different from my Eastman.

As someone who owns and plays both an Eastman MD515 and JBovier F5 Studio (Sitka spruce, not European), there is a significant tonal difference that pushes the needle into the "bluegrass" section much more than the Eastman.

That's not to say the Eastman is inferior, but to my ears and others who regularily hear me play both, consensus is a preference for the JBovier...

[roysboy]

The Km 505 Kentucky will be the right fit , I'm certain .
The right features , the right tone , the right price for a beginner trying to determine what he might ultimately want in an instrument , the ease of playing that comes with the radius fretboard ,the Kentucky reputation ( just look at what most of US think of the Kentucky products let alone the shops and dealers ) and a beautiful looking mandolin . Buy it !

[danmc91]

Thanks for all the advice. I think this helps as far as me knowing what sort of price range I may be looking at for the sort of instrument we are looking for as well as a few instruments in particular to look at. Bill: I do plan on following your advice of playing some although that should prove somewhat interesting. Maybe I'll tune a guitar in 5ths and figure out some stuff so I have something to play as a test. Although I guess some of the basic checks like the instrument being in tune with itself shouldn't require knowing how to actually play a mandolin.

Best Regards
-Dan

[herholsj]

Just did what you are going to do . 30 years on guitar , bought a Eastman md605. Nice to learn on, easy to play , transition depends on how much time you put in you can learn all the chords and fingerings and you know how to strum and pick takes a while to train your brain and muscle memory etc. but here am a year later and I am getting decent and just sold my Eastman as I have a nice Martin guitar and nice electric and am now looking at used Collins and webers with a wide nut. I have small hands but fat fingers and look forward to a slightly bigger fretbooard. The jump from a adecent mandolin to a good mandolin seems to be greater In $ than for guitars from what I have learned here, now that I have accepted and learned that I am willing to spend a little more on a better used instrument as the mandolins seem to hold their value pretty well based on stalking the classifieds. I sold my Eastman here in about 2 hours for probably too little $. Summary would be I advise skipping the mid line 800-1000 range and go to the 1500-3000 market, it will hold its value and you will not have to take a hit on first one and will play more. Also the wide nut is something I did not know about first time around . Enjoy! Help me, I now have gear acquisition syndrome on 2 instruments.

[danmc91]

Help me, I now have gear acquisition syndrome on 2 instruments.
I'm most fortunate that by in large my wife likes the same sorts of toys that I do :)

[belbein]

Oh, sheesh, here we go again. Mr. Practical here, encouraging you to not waste your money.

You want to spend absolutely as little money as you can. Because you are guaranteed to be a more intelligent buyer in 6 months, and even more after a year. And the chances are extremely high that whatever you spend, you are going to want something different when you get a ways down the road. No to mention that your wife's tastes might diverge from yours.

Right now, you are inevitably going to want a traditional scrolly, ff-ey, sunbursty mandolin now. But as time goes on, as your tastes mature,* you will tire of that look, or you might want an oval hole, or G-d knows what. You can't predict it now. All you're doing now is experimenting to see if you like it. I mean, you may also not like the instrument; as Bratsche says, you might prefer Mandola, or Octave Mandolin. I guarantee you, 100% money back guarantee, that in a year your desires are going to be completely different than your desires now. So spending money on anything other than a playable instrument is foolish. IM(NV)HO.

If you are in an area with either stores selling used musical instruments, or with lots of pawn shops, shop pawn. Don't spend the money for a new one. It will most likely be wasted. Buy the cheapest decent (and I don't mean "good" I mean "decent") USED mandolin you can find. You can probably find one either in your area or on line for between $60 and $250. The money you save can go in the bank for whatever you decide, down the road, is going to be your "dream" mandolin.

FWIW, I have a $60 mando that I practice on daily in my office (set it up myself, sounds great, plays decently, don't care if someone steals it). I've played a used Luna, that I could have bought for under $250, and it was one of the smoothest playing, nicest mandolins I've ever played. I've played a cheapo Ovation, that I could've bought for a couple hundred: equally playable. There are lots of very nice, used, inexpensive instruments out there, and it will make you feel better a few years from now when you want to buy that Weber Bighorn or teens Gibson, that you saved several hundred dollars while you were educating yourself about what your tastes are.

_ _ _ _ _
*Jus' kiddin', Grassers. You can put the shotguns away. I own one of them, too.

[Steve Zawacki]

What's a consideration here is also whether you plan to devote the time to be as proficient on the mandolin as you are with guitar (or your other instruments) or your spouse is with the viola. If this is just an extended look-see at another stringed instrument, then going as inexpensive as a Rover RM-50 from one of the vendors here who participate in the Cafe and will set it up correctly may be all you need for now. If it becomes more than that down the road (however long that takes), if/when the mandolin becomes a true member of your instrument stable, you may want to acquire another (however many) mandolin(s) of the same caliber as the guitars/violas.

[belbein]

If it becomes more than that down the road (however long that takes ... you may want to acquire another

... but there are so many different combination of mandoli that you won't know which combination is right for you until waaaay down the road. So go cheap now (buy a USED Rover!) and save your pennies for that expensive "perfect" instrument, when you figure out what it is.

[Mike Steadfast-Ward]

Welcome Danmc 91 on your 1st post. Great advice from the members again, Just before Christmas I picked out a cheap import to learn on and like my mando, who has the name now of Rhubarb, that's what my family called it every time I asked questions.I was uncertain what they had got me.
As I know with guitar I owned several until I got the one I really love. Believe it or not it came out of the loft minus two strings from a US missionary
who thought she might learn but didn't want to put the work in, So it came originally from the US I tried it on approval, gave it a set of Spectrum strings tuned it up. gave it a strum and kid u not my mouth drooled at its voice. Happy mando career fellow, enjoy the search oh by the way Health Warning.
Playing the Mandolin is extremely Addictive. Enjoy haha.

[pheffernan]

... but there are so many different combination of mandoli that you won't know which combination is right for you until waaaay down the road. So go cheap now (buy a USED Rover!) and save your pennies for that expensive "perfect" instrument, when you figure out what it is.

I don't believe there is a single "perfect" instrument at the end of the rainbow, only "more perfect" ones; thus, I'd advise you to buy the most perfect used instrument that you can afford so that you can get your money out of it should you need to when the "more perfect" one becomes available.

[Capt. E]

I have found it interesting that of the Kentucky mandolins I have tried out recently, I have preferred the lower models. KM-505 (or 550) is a great choice for a beginner. Just make sure it is well set up (a good set-up should be included in the purchase price). Often the on-line mail order places send it to you just as it came from the factory. That is not sufficient.

[danmc91]

The KM-505 is a great mandolin! It has a more modern sound than the KM900/950's more "Loar" oriented voice.

You will need to decide if you want a flat or radiused finger board and what kinds of music you want to play. If you want to play bluegrass (as well as other music) then I would say a Kentucky would be great. However for custom shop playability and a beautiful sound, consider a Redline Traveler mandolin built here in the US. They sound simply fantastic and play like butter and are only about $700.

After thinking about it for 4 months, decided to go ahead with a Redline Traveler. Can't wait for it to arrive! Should be later this week.

[JeffD]

Don't overlook Big Muddy. They are great well built mandolins for very very reasonable prices. The Loar, and Eastman, and Kentucky are arch top mandolins, which are popular especially for bluegrass. The flat tops, like the Big Muddy are great for all kinds of music, and you can get a mandolin of a quality that can make you happy for your whole life at what many would call an entry level price.

This is especially pertinent if you have not zoomed in on a particular genre of music and just want to be making music with a mandolin.

If you have already decided on bluegrass, Big Muddy will get you started, but you likely will be moving on to the The Loar, Kentucky, and Eastman, all are very good choices.

[Jesse Harmon]

There is an excellent buy in the classifieds on a Rigel A that you would be really happy with. They are excellent instruments and easy to play with a radial board. A search on Rigel will give you lots of feed back. I am a classical guitar player and found the wider neck and radial board worked noticeably easier than the other brands I was trying at the store. It was instantly noticeable. It is a good all around instrument and although I am an oval enthusiast I have played the f hole Rigels and find them very adaptable to all styles of music.

[Perry Babasin]

Is this a reasonable choice for something that will avoid frustrations with poor action, fret board not in tune with its self, reasonable tone, tuning pegs that slip, etc?

Important to note that with a bridge that is floating, in order for the fret board to be in tune with itself, a good set-up is essential. If you didn't buy from a dealer that specified a complete set-up, be prepared to find a mandolin luthier and have one done on your new instrument.

[Marc Ferry]

Hey Dan! I'd highly recommend the Eastman 305. It's a $500 mando with incredible sound quality. The reason why is simple: it's got no frills. It's an A-style (no decorations), has basic tuners, basic tailpiece, no matte finish, etc. So every dollar of that $500 you'd be spending goes on the sound quality, which you get quite a lot of!

[Charles E.]

In post #30 the OP stated he has bought a Redline Traveler, expecting it in a few days. Lets wait for a report on how he (and his wife) like the new mandolin.

[bart mcneil]

I hope you folks enjoy your Redline Traveler. Son't know a thing about it but the certainty is that within a year or two you will want to move up,,, (at least if you take to mandolin). Everyone does eventually want to add a different "voice" to their playing.

[bbaker2050]

I've got the Kentucky KM505 with CA bridge. It's a great mandolin. You would have been very happy with it.

[Unkldave]

Let me see if I understand what you mean herholsj: I'm a longtime guitar player bitten by the mandolin bug. Although I've never really tried to play a mandolin, I think the KM505 would be perfect for me. The thing is I think the KM900 sounds like a truly fine instrument, though admittedly I'm never going to need or "rate" one. It's just that it would be a rush to own a nice axe. If I can part with my old Strat it will be in my price range. But you suggest skipping to the 1500-3000 range? Hmm... I also see the wisdom of Mr. Practical:don't spend foolishly, try out a decent cheapie and see how one does on a strange, new, stringed instrument. I'm tacking towards the 505, while thinking wistfully of the 900, but see that being frugal is the right thing. Thanks for what you all have posted.