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jromano23
Mar-01-2014, 3:40pm
After a series of guitar and mando swaps and sales, I recently found myself guitar-less for the first time in about 15 years. With a little extra cash in hand from the transactions, I picked up a '34/'35 Gibson L7 from Retrofret which features a carved 16' spruce top with maple back and sides and Nick Lucas style fretboard and headstock. It's a clean players grade instrument with a small repaired back crack and a few minor touchups but overall very solid and nice with a recent re-fret. Having lusted after Collings AT-16 and Loar era L5s, I was surprised to find this L7 at a fraction of the price. The tone and playability are unbeatable. As a former flat top only, casual player, I always found 17" x braced models a little too jazzy for my taste. The 16" is a different beast all together producing one of the most satisfying, round and direct tones I've heard on a guitar. It is at home in everything from Carter Family and old time music, to blues and new acoustic music. Having struggled to find something like this, I'm surprised there aren't more luthiers out there offering a standard 16" archtop acoustic like the Collings At-16. I saw a Mowry cutaway at Carmel Music that looked pretty amazing but rarely see anything similar... As Gibson only made the L7 in this size for a few years, I don't think there are many out there... A terrific bang for the buck if you can find one. Any one else have a similar positive experience with the 16" archtop? Anyone else making them in the $3-7K range?

115087

dcoventry
Mar-01-2014, 3:55pm
After a series of guitar and mando swaps and sales, I recently found myself guitar-less for the first time in about 15 years. With a little extra cash in hand from the transactions, I picked up a '34/'35 Gibson L7 from Retrofret which features a carved 16' spruce top with maple back and sides and Nick Lucas style fretboard and headstock. It's a clean players grade instrument with a small repaired back crack and a few minor touchups but overall very solid and nice with a recent re-fret. Having lusted after Collings AT-16 and Loar era L5s, I was surprised to find this L7 at a fraction of the price. The tone and playability are unbeatable. As a former flat top only, casual player, I always found 17" x braced models a little too jazzy for my taste. The 16" is a different beast all together producing one of the most satisfying, round and direct tones I've heard on a guitar. It is at home in everything from Carter Family and old time music, to blues and new acoustic music. Having struggled to find something like this, I'm surprised there aren't more luthiers out there offering a standard 16" archtop acoustic like the Collings At-16. I saw a Mowry cutaway at Carmel Music that looked pretty amazing but rarely see anything similar... As Gibson only made the L7 in this size for a few years, I don't think there are many out there... A terrific bang for the buck if you can find one. Any one else have a similar positive experience with the 16" archtop? Anyone else making them in the $3-7K range?

115087

Archtop everything. My flat top playing guitar friends went <altered text expletive deleted by Moderator> when I got this one.

Verne Andru
Mar-01-2014, 7:27pm
I believe The Loar series of solid-carved archtops are 16" and very reasonably priced. I have a 300 and love the tone and playability.

citeog
Mar-01-2014, 9:34pm
David Rawlings (of Gillian Welch & David Rawlings fame) plays an old Epiphone archtop model. I believe it's their Casino model. He gets a very Carter family-ish sound out of that box.

Paul

Bernie Daniel
Mar-01-2014, 10:20pm
I believe The Loar series of solid-carved archtops are 16" and very reasonably priced. I have a 300 and love the tone and playability.

The S-300 is 18" correct? Do you find that any harder to hold and pick than the 16" models like the L-5?

Bernie Daniel
Mar-01-2014, 10:23pm
I have a 1949 L-50 (16", maple & spruce) and it is one of the best sounding guitars I have ever had.

Jim
Mar-01-2014, 10:23pm
Dave Rawlings plays a 1935 Epiphone Olympic archtop which has a real strong mid range. A friend just purchased a "The Loar" which I think is a 300, It's a Really sweet little guitar.

mandobouy
Mar-01-2014, 11:11pm
howdy all,
i don't post often but this one gets to my core. i grew up with 16" archies, and still have a number of them, as well as the 17" ones. bernie and i have corresponded recently on this a bit. i currently have i think maybe 6-7 16" archies from 1935-1940 period. some are ugly but damn good sounding.

imho, the best (most affordable and great sounding) 16" archies are gibson L-50's from 1935 to 1937. the '35s and the early '36s had flat backs, transitioned to carved backs in '36. sometime around 1938 (not sure exactly when but that's my best assessment), the model lost the elevated fingerboard extension. most '38-'43 ones had a carved 2pc back (some 1 pc backs but are laminated) but w/o the elevated FB extension. so the earlier 16" L-50's were like plainer versions of the L-4.

the arched back ones have a somewhat bigger voice, as one would expect, but the flat backed ones are terrific. with the narrower waist than a dread, i find archies to be much more ergonomically comfortable. a very few of the '35-'36 L-50's have maple necks, vs the std mahogany, and these are killer guitars. i have a maple necked L-50 and an maple necked L-4, both unusual models but just awesome guitars. archies are diff from dreads, just as good as dreads but with a diff voice. so its not fair to compare a dreads sound to an archie on the 1st position open E chord and say a dread is better, unless you only play 1st position stuff. to me, archies have more "jump" in the voice than a dread, and to me they have "better" chord and note character up the neck than most dreads. archies can be very warm too. exceptions are there of course. many of the later lower models have laminated backs, and some have lam tops too (the mahogany top L-48's for example; but some a few late 40's and early 50's L-48's have a spruce top). i have been finally wandering into flattops in the last few years to give myself some tonal options for some tunes but the archies are it for me.

the op's L-7 is one variant. went to the 17" body in '35 i believe. some are x-braced, others have the tone bars inside. L-7 nut width varied too in the mid-later 30's so watch that if you are interested in getting one. gibson also had some round hole archies in the 30's. to me, these are bigger on the bottom than an F hole, kinda towards the dread sound, but i don't think they have the same mid-upper end as the F-hole models.

i play my archies on everything. don't think they are only good for swing/jazz. they are more balanced than a dread, people get bamboozled by banging on an open E chord on a dread. archies have a fine character that stands out in a crowd of flattops. just accept they are different, not lacking. do yourself a favor and explore the world of archtops, and hear a fine one. afterall, most of our mando's are archtops!
cheers, and off my soapbox now.
bruce

Petrus
Mar-02-2014, 5:15am
My Harmony archtop is one of my faves. Not exactly "$3-7K" range (more like 300 range, lol) but it does the trick. I'm thinking of putting on a period finger rest (in off-white) and maybe a pickup.

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These are more or less the only style of guitar I like ... maybe it's the family resemblance to mandos and violins that does it for me. The only other type of guitar I really like are the small-bodied parlor style that used to be popular in the 19th cent., with the Stauffer-style scrolled head. Those are hard to find and expensive these days.

Bernie Daniel
Mar-02-2014, 7:18am
I should have added in my post that the Gibson mandocello that I now have was originally a 1942 solid maple and spruce 16" L-50. That box made a really powerful mandocello much like the early K-5's were derived from L-5 boxes.

I agree with Petrus my arch top guitar feels and sounds best to me now, that after years of owing lot of different Gibson dreadnought flat tops (Hummingbird, J-45, J-50, J-55, J-60 etc.) and a Martin D-28. But it is a personal thing -- the sound of good flat top guitar is pretty awesome too.

Thanks to Burce (mandobouy) for the short lesson in the Gibson arch top build history. Lots of useful information there I copied and saved that post! :)

Bernie Daniel
Mar-02-2014, 7:22am
Archtop everything. My flat top playing guitar friends went apesh@t when I got this one.

Your second arch top (blonde face) looks like an Eastman? - but what is that first one you showed -- with the sunburst and the cool inlay. Looks vintage for sure!

jromano23
Mar-02-2014, 10:18am
Thanks for the great comments. This particular L7 is a nice fit for me as it has a 1 3/4 nut width. I think the feel comparison with mandos is a good one as the small f holes on this early model provide a bounce and mid range similar to mandolin. As for the price range, I sort of threw it out there as an estimate of what a custom mandolin builder might charge to do a 16" Loar era L5 copy (I see Paul Duff is working on one for Carter's Vintage that will probably be more expensive based on his K5 price). My Gibson came in under that price range which is why I feel it was a good buy. I love flattops too but there is something in the 16" design that really gets me. I think the dot inlay Loar-early 30s L5 might be my favorite guitar of all time (never played one though). That said, I'd take a '38 herringbone any day too (also, never played one)...

Mike Steadfast-Ward
Mar-02-2014, 10:40am
Thanks Ted E sterling job. There are plenty of good adjectives in the English-American language, it's a rather rich language in this sense. Just a little thought needed to keep standards up. Thanks again fellow you are doing an important job and you are appreciated lots here.

Verne Andru
Mar-02-2014, 12:21pm
The S-300 is 18" correct? Do you find that any harder to hold and pick than the 16" models like the L-5?

The Loar series is based on the Gibson L-5 from the 1920's IIRC. My LH-300-VS is 16" - it's basically a poor-man's L5.

robert.najlis
Mar-02-2014, 12:47pm
I have a 1930's Washburn Archtop guitar (16") . Seeing as I don't really play guitar, I have been pondering selling it or trading it for a while now, but I have not been able to bring myself to do it yet. It is a great guitar with a special sound.

GreenMTBoy
Mar-02-2014, 1:00pm
115127

Here is my 53 L7C,A great guitar ,The original poor man's L5

johnparrott
Mar-02-2014, 1:15pm
Nice to hear some accolades for the f-hole mandolin's big brother. The acoustic archtop guitar's been a mainstay in many different kinds of music, but for reasons unknown, it's not seen so often onstage these days. I've found that once the audience's ears adjust, people like archtops just fine.

There are many good instruments available in the price range you mention. Epi Triumphs seem to be abundant, as do the Gibson L-7s and even some L-5s fit in that that price category. But these instruments vary so much in sound and condition that one would be wise to play before buying. Clinkers, even good-looking clinkers are everywhere in all price ranges. I can't think of one old archtop model or brand I could give a blanket recommendation for; even those iconic Strombergs and D'Angelicos are spotty when it comes to sound. And if you're used to flat-tops, it takes a different touch to get good sound out of an archtop.

The two nicest-sounding new archtops I've played were a Gibson copy of a 171/2 "Stromberg made for Doug Green, and a 16" blonde Gilchrist owned by a lucky guy in California. I hear good things about "The Loar" but I have yet to pick one up.

Coincidentally, Marty Grosz, one of the titans of the archtop and a master performer, had his 84th birthday yesterday. He is sounding better than ever.

Masterbilt
Mar-02-2014, 1:50pm
This particular L7 is a nice fit for me as it has a 1 3/4 nut width. I think the feel comparison with mandos is a good one as the small f holes on this early model provide a bounce and mid range similar to mandolin.

Dave Rawlings and his Epiphone Olympic have been mentioned - however we are not talking 16" archtop there. Dave's Olympic is only 13.5 inches wide! Very different guitar than a 16" - with their strong response in the mids and highs even more related to a mando than most bigger archtops. I love these small Epi firecrackers.

http://wiedler.ch/guitars/Epimidgets_sofa.jpg

Felix

jromano23
Mar-02-2014, 2:03pm
I love the Epiphone Olympics and am particularly fond of the unbound versions like yours in the middle. I've seen them occasionally go up for sale ranging from $1200 up to $3500 but they are becoming harder to find as David Rawlings has shown off their virtues so well. I find my L7 to be be similar but with a rounder low end due to the larger size. That said, I might argue that mine has more of the punch that the Olympics have compared to the later 17" x braced L7 models.

robert.najlis
Mar-02-2014, 2:20pm
here is a picture of my Washburn 1930's 16" Archtop that I had mentioned before

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Petrus
Mar-02-2014, 8:36pm
Hmm, it never occurred to me to convert my Harmony into a mandocello. Drilling the holes in the headstock wouldn't be hard but for the existing 6 holes being in the way; no way to just add extra holes, you'd have to fill in the existing ones. A new bridge and tailpiece would be easy to fit. The steel-reinforced neck should hold the extra tension with no problem.

Phil Goodson
Mar-02-2014, 11:44pm
Here's a quick shot of my '33 Epiphone Blackstone Masterbilt. ~14 inch width. Arched top & back. Good sound and feel.
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Jim Garber
Mar-03-2014, 9:49am
My two acoustic archtop guitars are both 16 inch ones. I am fortunate to own a wonderful 1928 L-5 and a 1934 Epiphone Spartan (roundhole). I believe that the Spartan only had a round soundhole for that one year and they changed it to f-holes after that.

The Spartan is a great rhythm guitar, suitable for swing or old time.

Dan Margolis
Mar-03-2014, 10:16am
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/guitarmando1/1947%20Gibson%20L-7%20and%201947%20Epiphone%20Blackstone/DSCN0533.jpg (http://s934.photobucket.com/user/guitarmando1/media/1947%20Gibson%20L-7%20and%201947%20Epiphone%20Blackstone/DSCN0533.jpg.html)

Here's my '47 Blackstone. The top used to be nice until my stepson's buddies shredded on it in the 1980's. It has a nice clear voice and a comfortable neck.

jromano23
Mar-03-2014, 10:35am
Jim,

Any pics of the '28 L5 Maybelle Special?

Thanks,

Joey

Ryk Loske
Mar-03-2014, 10:52am
The S-300 is 18" correct? Do you find that any harder to hold and pick than the 16" models like the L-5?

Bernie
You may be thinking of the Gibson S (Super) 300 which is an 18" guitar. It is to the Super 400s what the L-7 is to the L-5. I own a Super 3 and love it. It's my do anything guitar. I don't find an 18" arch top to be too much to handle. Sitting i hold them like a classical player. At 5'8" i wouldn't be considered a big guy either.

Jim!
Damn man! A Brentrup A AND a '28 L-5. I owned one once and regret having to sell it. 28 is considered to be THE year for L-5s. Congratulations.

John,
Thanks for the reminder about Marty Grosz. Marty tunes his guitars Bb*F*C*G*B*D .. plectrum tuning top 4.

Ryk

Jim Garber
Mar-03-2014, 11:07am
I bought it many years ago and unfortunately the top was stripped. My friend, an excellent luthier, refinished the top fixed cracks and found some period replacement hardware. It is an excellent guitar. I will take some photos. I promised these photos to someone else recently. Yeah, Maybelle and Eddie Lang...

wsugai
Mar-03-2014, 11:53am
In my opinion, the best thing about a 16" archtop is that you don't have to contort your picking arm as much as with a 17" of comparable body thickness. A thinner body helps (like a 17" Heritage Eagle is easier to play than a typical 16" Gibson archtop) but otherwise, it's the model rather than the size that makes the difference for me.

juneman
Mar-03-2014, 3:32pm
Here is a couple pics of the first 16" archtop that I have built.

walter "JUNE " guitars and mandolins

SincereCorgi
Mar-03-2014, 3:38pm
Nice! I covet something like one of these, but they never seem to come up for sale around here. The closest I came was almost buying a mediocre L 37, but it had a big top crack and I had mixed feelings about the flat back.

Verne Andru
Mar-03-2014, 3:48pm
I don't have any stills but I do have this vid of me playing my The Loar 300. The tune is a work in process.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCVT7id-ArU

Freddyfingers
Mar-03-2014, 5:04pm
I play arch tops almost exclusively. Electric that is. Would love to be able to afford a decent arch top for just acoustic play, but its not in the cards. I do currently play a Gretsch 6120 SHBTV , which no one seems to mention here. Great electrically, but too much paint and poly for acoustic play. A 1962 es 125 tc, that I added a second pick up to. Sounds much louder than the gretsch acoustically, but still not a projecting instrument until plugged in. Also a 1960 Hofner President. Loudest of all acoustically, but none beat out my standard takmini from 1991 for straight up tone and volume.

i-vibe
Mar-03-2014, 5:13pm
color me a big fan of archtops too.

I've got a big blond 17" PEERLESS Monarch w floating DeArmond... best playing gtr i've owned.
Also in the stable are an old HARMONY made '58 Alden, and the gtr i gig w most... a 2008 EASTMAN 803-15CE...at 15" w a single mounted (Kent Armstrong HB) it's amazing how much acoustic wallop that gtr has. best of all the smaller body helps lessen feedback.

bjewell
Mar-03-2014, 5:52pm
1937-ish L-50s are a huge deal as Gibson was using up their good 16" wood and replacing the smaller boxes with their 17" Advanced Models. I've had two in particular I wish I had never sold...

Jim Garber
Mar-03-2014, 6:17pm
1937-ish L-50s are a huge deal as Gibson was using up their good 16" wood and replacing the smaller boxes with their 17" Advanced Models. I've had two in particular I wish I had never sold...

Maybe I am misunderstanding you... as far as I know, L-50 were never made larger than 16" wide.

Steve Sorensen
Mar-03-2014, 7:49pm
115190 115191

The Californian -- 15-3/4" lower bout. Curly redwood top; curly Claro walnut back; Quilted maple binding and inserts for armrest and cutaway.

Steve

amowry
Mar-03-2014, 11:26pm
Sweet!!

jromano23
Mar-03-2014, 11:39pm
http://mowrystrings.com/Guitar_gallery.htm#

I saw one of these go awhile back at Carmel Music and kick myself every time I see the sold listing... Great looking instruments, Andrew. Keep up the good work!

Petrus
Mar-04-2014, 1:11am
Here's a really interesting Framus archtop guitar-style mando someone's selling on eBay. It's not in my price range unfortunately.

115805

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201041340369

jromano23
Mar-11-2014, 12:10pm
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/74137

There we go... too bad it's tax time...

Chip Booth
Mar-11-2014, 12:34pm
I play a varnished Hofner New President, which i think is a 16" model. It's a decent guitar, a pretty thing for sure, but some day I hope to own a better archtop.

116611

116612

Jim Garber
Mar-19-2014, 7:05pm
Any pics of the '28 L5 Maybelle Special?


Sorry this took so long. Here ya go.

GreenMTBoy
Mar-19-2014, 8:11pm
That sure is pretty Jim

Jim Garber
Mar-20-2014, 7:36am
It was on my list back in the 1980s for Maybelle and for Eddie Lang (two musical heroes of mine). Filled that longing with one guitar. I haven't played it in a while and the strings need to be changed. Nevertheless, it still sounds and plays great. Perfect neck, too.

Jim Garber
Mar-20-2014, 11:49am
Here is Mother Maybelle's 1928 L-5 (http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/maybelle-carter-825.aspx).

There is another 1928 for sale at Mandolin Brothers (http://mandoweb.com/Instruments/Gibson-L-5+16+Acoustic+Archtop+Guitar-1928/3676).

Ken Olmstead
Mar-20-2014, 11:57am
Congrats OP, that's sweet! Hoping to get a Loar LH-700 later in the year, after my vacation and I have settled down from my recent bout of instrument madness! Something tells me I will really enjoy an archtop acoustic guitar, more my speed!

Ken Olmstead
Mar-20-2014, 11:58am
Sorry this took so long. Here ya go.

Dang, you win !! And we share a love for Eddie Lang!

Jim Garber
Mar-20-2014, 12:11pm
Man, it isn't a contest... I just admire these old vintage guitars. Frankly, I could barely afford it when I got it and it was a wreck -- took almost as much to restore it and it took a few years by an expert luthier.

Ken Olmstead
Mar-20-2014, 12:34pm
Man, it isn't a contest... I just admire these old vintage guitars. Frankly, I could barely afford it when I got it and it was a wreck -- took almost as much to restore it and it took a few years by an expert luthier.

Just a light hearted way of saying "nice guitar." I'll say it differently,

Real beauty of a guitar you got there Jim!

Jim Garber
Mar-20-2014, 1:42pm
No, I was kidding, too. I guess I was thinking about the saying about the guy who has the most toys wins. I have been doing this for decades. I always put my extra cash into instruments and was never into fancy cars or motorcycles or electronics.

Ken Olmstead
Mar-20-2014, 1:46pm
No, I was kidding, too. I guess I was thinking about the saying about the guy who has the most toys wins. I have been doing this for decades. I always put my extra cash into instruments and was never into fancy cars or motorcycles or electronics.

You in good company for sure!

I was just stunned by how gorgeous that instrument was to my eyes and probably was a bit over exuberant in my compliment. :) It truly is exquisite!

Jim Garber
Mar-21-2014, 6:16am
Thanks... I love the understatedness of the design and limited ornamentation. I think by the next year or so, Gibson decided to put block inlays but I like the dots. I am dying to put a new set of strings on it and play it some.

jromano23
May-01-2014, 3:01pm
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27b6g_groucho-marx-everyone-says-i-love-y_music

Stumbled upon this gem...

Ryk Loske
May-01-2014, 6:01pm
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27b6g_groucho-marx-everyone-says-i-love-y_music

Stumbled upon this gem...

The guitar that Groucho is playing in that scene is Eddie Lang's. (They were friends.) Not included in that clip is that at the end Groucho throws the guitar overboard. But for THAT a different guitar was used!

Jim,
The '28 that i let slip away had block inlays. It may have been the first.

Ryk