View Full Version : Gibson '57 F-5... formerly owned by Clarence White?
Ultra Turtle
Jan-29-2014, 2:34pm
http://cartervintage.com/mandopage/mandopage.html#loar25
They said it was appraised by Mandolin Bros., and they verified it was owned by Clarence. I'm just wondering how they authenticated that. To my little knowledge, he only played a Randy Wood.
Anyone know anything about this, and its' history?
It sure is a beautiful instrument!
I've only seen one picture of Clarence playing a F-5 type mandolin, but it's a side shot, and you can't see much. The binding is different.
113435
Pretty dang cool. And much cheaper than Duane Eddy's 50's F-5.
Timbofood
Jan-29-2014, 3:52pm
Might the esteemed Roland White have some knowledge about this? I know some of the things my brothers have owned but, will admit, not everything.
I thought the same thing Alan!
RichieK
Jan-29-2014, 4:02pm
I actually asked Roland about this mandolin when it was for sale around 1989, and he said it was not Clarence's. Originally was a blonde.
Ultra Turtle
Jan-29-2014, 4:11pm
I thought the same thing... Roland would most likely know.
Thanks, RichieK! Good to know you have the facts from the source.
Darnthorny
Jan-29-2014, 4:37pm
I remeber playing that mandolin at Mandolin Bros YEARS ago when they had it for sale.. I think it was in the early 80s (can't remember). The story then was that it had belonged to Clarence, but that's all I can remember, other than it's appearence was the same.
RichieK
Jan-29-2014, 9:37pm
I would also check with the Carter's. They are straight shooters.
Ivan Kelsall
Jan-30-2014, 4:38am
Whatever it is,it has one fat headstock compared with the other Gibson F5 pics. on the page.Did Gibson Headstocks vary so much ?. It just looks odd to me,but then i haven't seen 'that many' older Gibsons,
Ivan
Clarence didn't record too much on the mandolin, the only Byrds I know he did is Take A Whiff On Me, any others?
Timbofood
Jan-30-2014, 9:17am
I agree Ivan, there was a stretch where peghead width got rather pregnant, I had a chat with Bill Halsey about that very subject some time ago,he'd mentioned that there had been a rather hard headed fellow there who was responsible for putting pegheads on a diet to get them back to their earlier girlish figure. I don't remember his name.
pfox14
Jan-30-2014, 10:28am
This is a refinished F-5 that also had the headstock veneer replaced and they're asking $6K. Personally, I think the Clarence White connection adds nothing to its value. Price is too high IMO, but most of Walter's stuff seems over-priced.
Ivan Kelsall
Jan-31-2014, 4:22am
Timothy - For me,along with the other ellegant attributes of the "F" style design,the peghead profile is another aspect that contributes to the 'whole' appearance. That wide headstock detracts from the appearance to quite a degree. The shape of the scroll didn't look over brilliant,until i looked at the other F5's on the page & some of them weren't too hot either (IMHO),
Ivan
Timbofood
Jan-31-2014, 7:06am
Indeed!the heavy, broad configuration just looks too cumbersome as far as I am concerned. There is a delicacy in "The" design which gets muddied by some builders from time to time, even "The" company gets muddy with it's own design.
f5loar
Feb-01-2014, 12:37am
I'm confused. If Roland says it's not Clarence's mandolin and they have no photos of him holding it why would they say it is his?
f5loar
Feb-01-2014, 12:40am
That's his F2 he played with the Byrds. I never saw him with an F5.
Ivan Kelsall
Feb-01-2014, 3:53am
From F5loar - "......why would they say it is his ? " .To make it more attractive to a prospective buyer by adding a 'provenance'. However it seems as though Mandolin Bros. (maybe) hasn't got it right on this one - who's perfect ?. If MB were given 'spurious' info.re.the mandolin,it's not their fault,& you can't just call somebody a liar for giving info.which they in turn may have believed. A bit more checking out seems to have been in order in this case,
Ivan
f5loar
Feb-01-2014, 1:45pm
Clarence didn't record too much on the mandolin, the only Byrds I know he did is Take A Whiff On Me, any others?
But you did get a signed letter and photo of Duane holding it with that deal. This deal has nothing other than someone else saying Clarence owned it. So if Mandolin Bros believed it , does not mean Carter should believe it too! Two wrongs don't make it right. Even those guys on the Pawn Stars question letters of authenicity and always bring in an expert to view the item before they make the deal. Carter should have it least gotten in touch with Roland or Roger McGuinn to verify this before promoting the clelebrity card. I'm with Roland on this one. For a refinished and altered 50's F5, the price is a bit steep so no doubt they are adding in the CW factor in that price. And add in that it was a blonde when whomever owned it really changes the price. Blonde F5s from the 50's or before are extremely RARE!
Sorry about that, I put the wrong quote and it should be the one about Duane Eddy's F5 that was for sale a while back. But in answer to the above quote is yes he did others with the Bryds. I can think of Americas Greatest National Pastime sung by Skip Battin with CW on mandolin. The Byrds did many mulit-instrument overdubs in the studio and I'm sure there are others. CW would sometimes do 6 guitar overdubs to Roger's one 12 string. They recorded 2 bluegrass sounding instrumentals I remember had mandolin buried in the tracks. When I saw the Byrds live CW would have the mandolin (usually the F2) slung to his back. He would take the guitar break, swing it around and take the mandolin break and then back to guitar again. Pretty amazing to see it done live.
Yeah, The Byrds music had lots of layered things, I imagine CW on mandolin on a few things. There was a youtube somewhere of him doing the slung over the back thing. Funny, as great a guitar man as he was, his greatness did not carry over to the mandolin. On Sweethearts, Hillman played the Monroe-esque fade-out solo on Pretty Boy Floyd, not Clarence.
Ultra Turtle
Feb-03-2014, 12:27am
This deal has nothing other than someone else saying Clarence owned it. So if Mandolin Bros believed it , does not mean Carter should believe it too! Two wrongs don't make it right. Even those guys on the Pawn Stars question letters of authenicity and always bring in an expert to view the item before they make the deal.
Carter should have it least gotten in touch with Roland or Roger McGuinn to verify this before promoting the clelebrity card. I'm with Roland on this one. For a refinished and altered 50's F5, the price is a bit steep so no doubt they are adding in the CW factor in that price. And add in that it was a blonde when whomever owned it really changes the price. Blonde F5s from the 50's or before are extremely RARE!
My thoughts exactly... a few resources could have verified it's ownership by Clarence. With todays technology, just about everyone is within the reach of an email or phone call. I'm sure Gene Parsons or Roland would remember.
f5loar
Feb-03-2014, 1:22pm
And for that very reason that it is so easy to verify this one I give the Carter's an "F" for effort on checking it out before posting for sale. One phone call to Roland would have done it. Gene Parsons another good still living source but if Roland didn't know about it you can take that to the bank. Ask me what my brother owned in instruments. I thought the Carters were above this type of "sales gimmick".