Trade offs: Vintage v. New

[Indianarick]

hi folks:

i understand the trade-offs in my more familiar world of drums. sounds, durability, etc. it all makes sense to me there.

but in the mandolin world i feel less comfortable. my question is...how much maintenance, etc. is necessary to sustain a vintage instrument (likely a Gibson A). can i play it and use it? or are they pretty fragile? will it require a lot of luthier time and money?

of course the condition of it at purchase factors in. i am looking for what else to consider when owning a vintage mandolin. i do want an instrument i can play.

i am torn between a Gibson A, and a Collings MT O.

wisdom and experience welcome.

thanks,

rick

[AlanN]

Most of the Gibson A models that come through here and that I've seen in shops are very playable and robust. Heck, they are 80 years old and have lasted this long. If a particular mandolin is not playable, the seller usually says so (or would hope the seller says so.)

[Eric F.]

I have a 1928 Gibson. It is no more or less fragile than my 2006 Weber. The only issue I've had with vintage Gibsons has been the tuners. You might have to take them off to clean and lubricate them. Once I did that with my current Gibson, the tuners worked as well as the tuners on any modern mandolin I've owned.

Certainly there are issues to look out for when buying an older instrument. You want the neck straight, the top to be not sinking, the frets not pocked and jagged. But once you have one in good shape, it requires no more maintenance than any other mandolin. I lubricate the tuners on all my instruments regularly anyhow.

[pfox14]

I would vote for vintage just because I love vintage instruments. I would recommend buying from a reputable dealer/store, so you can get an instrument that doesn't need a lot of work (hopefully). Good luck in your hunt.

[Jim Garber]

I have a few Gibson As and other vintage instruments. Gibsons are solid for the most part. Any mandolin esp made of wood will need some adjustments over time. If you are worried, best to buy from a reputable dealer who gives you some setup included in the sale price.

[bmac]

I would simply avoid obvious structural repairs, like broken neck or headstock. A crack or two would not bother me if well repaired, but it should be reflected in the price. I love older instruments and enjoy the evidence of age.

[Indianarick]

Hey all:

Thanks. Headed to Philly soon and plan to visit Vintage Instruments. Several A's to browse...

But i really like the Collings too....

Rick

[Bradley]

As cool as vintage instruments are I would always lead toward a new instrument. I say this because the playability is almost always
better! the sound is just as good or better and there's nothing wrong with a warranty if you are dropping the bucks for a nice Mandolin or guitar.

[JeffD]

The advantage of vintage is that often you can get a whole lot more mandolin for your money than buying new. Have to keep your eyes open and know what you are doing, but its very possible to do.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Rick - You seem to have decided on 2 great mandolins to choose from.The only thing that's really important,is how they play & sound to you. If you get the chance play both types & then make your choice. The 'durability' of mandolins isn't down to the instruments,it's down to how the owner(s) keep them.One of my mandolins is 11 years old (i've had it for 3), the other one is 7 years old from new & they're both in immaculate condition. Mandolins are just as robust as guitars or any other instrument,you just need to treat them right.They seem to me to be both fragile (to a point) & tough at the same time.The bottom line from me - buy the one you like the best,take care of it & it'll outlast you,as many other vintage instruments have done with their past owners,
Ivan

[Freddyfingers]

This is a good thread for me. I have been looking around at loads and such. A friend suggested looking at old gibsons I laughed as I thought I don't have that much cash. Surprisingly I found many A styles under 1000. I don't know I they project like the f styles of that time do, but I would rather have a 80 year old A style with mojo than a new f style I like mojo!

[Jim Garber]

One other thing to bear in mind is that vintage instruments hold their value. Buy an old Gibson and more than likely you can sell it for what you paid for it a few years from and might possibly even get more for it. Buy a new one and you will likely have to take some loss in value even if you sell it only a few months down the road.

[jmp]

Personally, I think the old Gibson A styles have the best tone for my ears and great projection too. If your aim is to play great sounding music I cannot think of a reason to buy anything else. If your aim is to just look cool than a new instrument with fancy woods and a sculpted figure is worth considering.

[Indianarick]

Ok. So now i am really looking forward to a vintage A. I will let you know how it goes!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Here's a good YouTube clip - 'Mississippi Sawyer' played by several different top flight players,one of whom is Robin Bullock (Wolf boy on here).Listen to his (i assume) Gibson "A4" ,it's as good as any on there (IMHO) http://youtu.be/Do4VbnO-GVs,
Ivan;)

[Indianarick]

Hey all:

Thanks so much for the comments and insight. Here is the outcome...

Arrived in Philly today. Went straight to Vintage Instruments. If you haven't been, it's quite something. Gorgeous old building. Lots of instruments. Sarah was very helpful.

After two hours of browsing and playing, I settled on a 1916 A. Not the prettiest one but just sounded amazing. Felt great. A world apart from my new Weber. Actually passed on some really nice ones. Just felt good about the basic A. Lots of wear but seems intact. And it literally sings.

Thanks again to all...


113093

[brunello97]

Nice looking axe, Rick. Love that wide grain on the top. Keep in touch and let us know how it sounds after you've had it awhile.

BTW, check the Factory Order Number (FON) on the neck block against the numbers in Joe Spann's book. I had what I thought was a '16A from the SN and it turned out to have been made in '14....

Mick

[Cheryl Watson]

I see you bought a nice vintage Gibson but for anyone else pondering this same choice:

If you really dislike flat-fretboards, and you very much prefer radiused fingerboards, that might be one good reason to choose the modern Collings. Other than that, I love the vintage Gibsons. Some people have the fretboards on the them radiused and refretted by an excellent luthier.

[f5loar]

There was a time when Bill Monroe thought his old Gibson mandolin was tough as nails and then a young lady showed him it was not that tough when used as a hammer and a little help from a fireplace poker.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Rick - "..sounded amazing. Felt great......". There's nothing left to say - enjoy it,it does look great,
Ivan

[Russ Donahue]

Well done Indiana...

I have a 1916 A as well, though mine is pumpkin. When I want the love of my life to feel good about my mandolin craziness, that is the instrument I play for her...she loves the sound and the vibe is awesome.

[Freddyfingers]

Here's a good YouTube clip - 'Mississippi Sawyer' played by several different top flight players,one of whom is Robin Bullock (Wolf boy on here).Listen to his (i assume) Gibson "A4" ,it's as good as any on there (IMHO) http://youtu.be/Do4VbnO-GVs,
Ivan;)
Nice video, Thanks!

[thistle3585]

Rick,
I am assuming you are in Indiana? Where at? I'm in Columbus.

[Indianarick]

Rick,
I am assuming you are in Indiana? Where at? I'm in Columbus.

yep. Greencastle.

[Indianarick]

Hey all. Ended up not pulling the trigger on the A. Ultimately it seemed overpriced for what it was. Lots of them out there. So I wait.

[mandolirius]

There was a time when Bill Monroe thought his old Gibson mandolin was tough as nails and then a young lady showed him it was not that tough when used as a hammer and a little help from a fireplace poker.

What is the point of injecting this into the thread? Supposed to be funny, or what?

[Franc Homier Lieu]

What is the point of injecting this into the thread? Supposed to be funny, or what?

Yeah f5loar, what gives? Just cause you have posted thousands of comments on this board, comments that have been informative, wise, and impeccably polite, what makes you think you can post something that is, though not offensive in any way, not perfectly pertinent (at least in the opinion of some)? I expect more from you.;)

[stevem]

Not sure where the 1916 date comes from with a truss rod and adjustable bridge--I'm no expert, but that mando looks loar era or later and should be priced higher than a 1916.

[Masterbilt]

Not sure where the 1916 date comes from with a truss rod and adjustable bridge--I'm no expert, but that mando looks loar era or later and should be priced higher than a 1916.
That Gibson A is actually listed as a 1922 on the website:
http://vintage-instruments.com/navigate/catidx7.htm (#26909).
Felix

[jmagill]

For me, tone & playability are the most important features in an instrument, with tone having an edge because a great-sounding instrument can usually be made playable, but the reverse is more problematic.

Vintage instruments often have great tone in spades; after all, you just can't make a new 60-year old mandolin, and there's a sound that only years of playing can produce. If it's not perfectly playable, a good repair tech can make it so, and there's the rub.

Prices in the vintage world are dictated by what an instrument IS, not what it sounds like, and a pristine example in all-original condition will be the highest valued. Any change you make to the original condition will lower its value.

I've often thought about looking for an ugly, well-played CHEAP CHEAP A-model from the teens or twenties in good structural condition that sounded just great, and then doing to it everything I'd want to suit my playability standards: a new, radiused fingerboard (and while it was removed, maybe adding a trussrod) with bigger frets of a more durable material (EVO or stainless steel), a new adjustable bridge, a new nut if it needed it and new tuners with a higher gear ratio. Then I'd have a sleek hot-rod A for sure... but one that I'd have a hard time re-selling for what I paid for it.

If you don't find a vintage instrument whose playability suits you PERFECTLY, and plan to have it tweaked by a luthier, then don't let re-sale value be too big a factor in your decision-making.

Something to keep in mind while shopping...

[jmagill]

On thing I forgot to mention is the cost of the modifications. Say you have a vintage A model, valued at $1000, that's in pretty much original condition; maybe the pickguard & tailpiece cover are missing, etc., but the bridge, frets and case are original. You make the modifications mentioned in my last post, which cost, say, $500. Now you have $1500 tied up in a great-sounding, great-playing mandolin you've just devalued to, say, $800. If you don't want to take a big financial hit, you better be prepared to keep this mandolin forever...

[Indianarick]

Ended up pulling the trigger on a Collings Mt O in Sheraton Brown. Thanks to all for your input!

[Bill Baldridge]

Enjoy!

[Ken Olmstead]

I don't know, for some reason, I tend to prefer what I call "Modern Classics" like Weber, Taylor and Ome. Just something about small changes from the originals that work for me but the new ones are not so far off the beaten path that you still get that vintage vibe. Also, updated Gibbys and Martins are cool too, but the first brands I mentioned seem to work better for me personally.

[CeeCee_C]

My 1919 A1 sounds wonderful, but it is beginning to get a little fragile. The string tension caused a vertical crack in the side about 2" behind the neck, body joint. I had it repaired and then the other side broke, same way.

The problem is that you don't know how the previous owners cared for an instrument.

Still, they're reasonably priced for what you get and I expect you'd be able to sell it for what you paid.

BTW, Acoustic Music in Guilford CT has a wide range of old Gibson A models for sale. (NFI). Brian is absolutely reputable and IMO, their prices are fair.

[mandroid]

The newer A5, shares the longer neck access of the F5, without all the costly extra work
of the florentine deco decor.

there is a lot of draw towards the scroll look though .. obviously ..

FWIW, some think the bluegrass Genre requires the player have an F5 ..


I am not on the BG team , never chosen, But , the Cafe forum had me seduced

when a Lebeda made mandolin was ready to change hands..

Now added to the 22 brown A, I got in my pre internet exposure years,
an A 4 also from 1922 but It has a Truss rod ..

as I'm supposing, It was introduced that year starting from the top of the line.
and highlighted by having the Truss rod cover nickel plated.

rather than the subtile black as it came to be more commonly.