View Full Version : Cedar tops
Rick Schmidlin
Feb-27-2005, 12:17am
I was wondering how Cedar tops are doing on mandolins. I was was wondering if the wood is to soft for the stress of the top?
Rick
Michael Lewis
Feb-27-2005, 12:51am
Though redwood is not cedar it is a close relative, and several makers have used it successfully for mandolin tops. I see no reason cedar can't be used also.
Chris Baird
Feb-27-2005, 1:13am
I've tried cedar a couple times but have had trouble. I always do a lot of deflection testing as I carve braces and on two different cedar tops the braces tore off the soundboard. The glue didn't fail the wood did. It has certainly been used successfully but is not as structurally sound as spruce.
krishna
Feb-27-2005, 10:23am
Michael , what do you think of the argument thats been floating around for 20 or so years about what happens to classical guitars that had tops made with ceder? For those who don't know about this,I'll explain. It has been much talked about (and is also documented) that 60 year old ceder top classical guitars have lost a lot of tone and volume. These were not your run of the mill classicals but some VERY expensive axes! The ceder just seems to have reached the end of it's acoustic life. there are no structual problems.... There are apparently dozens of high end 50 and 60 and 70 year old classicals that are being relegated to wall ornament and museum status. Any comment?..Kerry
Rick Schmidlin
Feb-27-2005, 1:34pm
I have been part of a few groups of discussion on this with guitar players and luthiers.It seem at least the verdict is still out on steel stringed guitar. There are many #who have owned and thier cedar tops twenty plus years.James Taylor and his Cedar toppede Olson is a good example. Other #educated guitar players like Lawrance Juber believe they do not last the test of time.His exsperance was based on classical guitars I believe.
Rick http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
sunburst
Feb-27-2005, 1:44pm
I have a steel string guitar with a cedar top that I built 12 years ago. It still sounds the same, but I've had to glue the bridge back on twice.
As in Cris Baird's experience, the wood failed and not the glue joint. I added some stiffness inside the guitar, and the bridge has been on ever since.
The top also developed a crack that resists all efforts to keep it glued. It's not really a structural problem because of the location, but the lack of resistence to splitting and the resulting dificulty in maintaining glue joints makes me wary of using cedar for mandolin tops.
T Monster, Western Red Cedar tone wood makes the most sweetest sounding mandolins I have ever built with a booming low end chop and bell type rings on the steel strings, I am planning many more too in the future, but a word of caution here: do not carve as thin as Spruce, leave as much as 40K or more on the rim side of the top and anchor the tone bars very firmly, you shouldn't have any trouble with the sound board from then on, I haven't as yet. #good luck # # # # # # # #Ron C
Michael Lewis
Feb-28-2005, 1:40am
To answer the classical guitar question, there are also many spruce topped classical guitars that have "palyed out" too. The problem as I see it is that the tops are so very thin, that they can physically distort too easily. Maybe they would be better with better bracing. As for mandolins, I think Ron Cole is right, don't make the tops too thin. You should always consider the structural qualities of the material you are using and compensate for any weaknesses. For example, in regard to braces coming off a cedar top, if you make the gluing surface of the braces wider (bigger footprint) they should hold better.
krishna
Feb-28-2005, 3:25am
That answer my question.Thanks...Kerry
Spruce
Feb-28-2005, 1:28pm
"Cedar tops, Weber?"
In reference to Weber and cedar, the one cedar-topped Weber F5 I've played is hands down the best Weber I've ever played...
And it belongs to Chad from Greg Boyd's shop who has seen a lot of Webers in his day, and wound up with his cedar-topped mando...
I built quite a few mandos using cedar, and never had any structural problems with the wood...
I left it maybe 20% thicker as I remember...
Choose your cedar well, too....
A fingernail is a good tool for sussing out the hardness of the wood. #It varies tremendously from tree to tree....