Mandolin accompaniment

[Jim T]

I'm sure this is basic for a lot of you, but is something as a fairly new mando player, that I'm struggling with and would appreciate some direction. This spring I'm going to start playing with a beginning/intermediate old time music class thru our local parks dept. I attended one of their classes as a spectator the other night. They seem to be oriented to playing fiddle music that would be used for clogging, contra, and square dances. They will play a fiddle tune (the session I attended had 4 fiddles and 2 guitars) in the AABB format over and over until the dance is complete. There are no breaks taken by various instruments as is done in Bluegrass. Finally, to my question...........where does me and my mandolin fit in to this? I'm thinking I could: 1). Play chop chords the whole time. 2). Play the fiddle tune myself, but I'm not sure how that would sound with the fiddles also playing the tune, or 3). this is where you all come in, cause I don't know what #3 might be? Let's use "Arkansas Traveller" and "Red Wing" as examples since I just recently learned these and I noticed they're on their play list.

Tnx for any help here. Jim

[John Flynn]

Here is a excerpt from John Hartford from the liner notes of "The Speed of the Old Long Bow." The whole liner notes contain some of the best advice about OT string band playing I have ever seen, but here is the paragraph that directly answers your question:

#
Everybody has a bunch of things they can do their instruments – you can 1) play rhythm on the down beat, 2) play rhythm on the off beat, 3) play a figure, like boogie woogie, 4) play a figure, like high or low bass runs, 5) play unison lead, 6) play harmony, 7) deaden your strings and play rhythm things, 8) play 4/4 and chromatic runs, 9) play straight open chord rhythm, 10) play closed chords, 11) always just play one note like the tonic, 12) you can just lay out.
I would add to that list 13) playing melodic variations, and 14) special effects like crosspicking, double-stops, tremelos, double-stop tremelos, etc. So you can see there are lots of options in OT that do not involve "breaks." And in OT, on the mando, you can play around with all of them, for the whole tune, not just when "your break" comes around. That is what makes OT so exciting for me and why I happen to like it better than the forms of ensemble music that involve breaks. One of the tricks that Hartford goes on to talk about is to change purposefully and on major changes in the tune, like the beginning of an A part or a B part. This concept is masterfully illustrated on mandolin by Mike Compton on Hartford's redition of "Squirrel Hunters" which is a free download off of Amazon.

As to your options, I would go light on the chop chords. Some people frown on them in OT. I use them probably more often than I should, but I only do them as a variation. OT players tend to favor open chords, heavy on the bass strings, light on the trebles. You can feel free to play the melody, even if the fiddles are playing it also. Just be playing in sync with them.

If you want to hear the master of playing mando with OT fiddle tunes, listen to Curtis Buckhannon on "Laugh and Grow Fat," by the Ill-Mo Boys. Available here at this link, (no financial interest):
http://www.vigortonerecords.com/

[Jim M.]

With four fiddles, you probably won't be heard on the mando playing the melody, unless you have a really loud mando. If you do, go ahead and try the melody. It will sound fine in unison with the fiddles. I don't think chop chords work that well with OT music. You probably want to use more open chords. You certainly don't have to stay on the 2& 4, either. Open chords with some rhythmic variation from the guitar can work very well.

[Jim T]

John and Jim, Tnx very much for the info. It's been a huge help. I ordered the Curtis Buckhannon CD from the site you listed as well as a couple of others. After your post, John, I realized that I've been concentrating on collecting mandolin music but not much that features the mando playing in an OT music setting. I've been trying to play open and closed chords (not chopping) with some of my practice CD's strumming on the 2 and 4 beats and I can see possibilities there. I know there are chord sheets available for the songs this group/class plays so should be able to start out with this. I'll try playing the melody on songs I know that for. Also, I dug out my Niles Hokkanen books and cd's "Bluegrass Up The Neck" and "The Penatonic Mandolin" to work with some more. From what you two posted I can see some use for further study with these. Please keep in mind that even though I was an honor student in high school and college, when it comes to this music stuff I'd be in the "slow learners class". LOL

Best Regards, Jim

[twaaang]

Just a word of caution about playing the same melody with four fiddlers: you may have a hard time hearing yourself and getting the feedback you're used to from your own playing. I'm not suggesting this should be a point of discouragement, rather to keep you from being unduly frustrated with feeling the problem was unique to you. When I was first "coming out" to play in sessions and found myself sandwiched between two fiddlers, I was totally lost. So be sure to find the right place to be, so you can hear them and yourself separately. And have a ball! -- Paul

[mcashion]

I've been playing old time for about three years. It depends on how many people are playing and what they are playing. Sometimes, if the fiddles haven't shown up yet, playing melody is a lot of fun. You can use double stops or even play two sets of strings with a drone, just like the fiddles do. (I'm working on this.) Say you are playing the melody on a D tune...you can drone the next lowest strings below the strings you are fretting. i.e., fretting the melody on E, drone A open, striking all four strings. When you drop down to the A string, drone the D string. Usually, I play rhythmn sort of like the guitar does, but with more variation in the beat. I like old time because there aren't any "stars" and everyone is welcome. We even have 7 year olds at our jams and they are a real joy to watch!

[Scott Rucker]

Mike Compton's backup style is amazing, to my ears. I like the sound he had in Hartford's band, but am blown away by the backup he provides to several tunes on Bruce Molsky's "Contented Must Be" CD. It proves how that awesome right hand of his works for more than Monroe style picking.

[Jim T]

I've been working the last couple of weeks on more open chording and even adding an alternating bass note...ala a guitar. #Seems to work pretty well on some of the fiddle tunes. #I've noticed others seem to do ok with chop chords. #Anyway, this boom chuck business got me to thinking about whether mandos use bass runs similar to a guitar for acompaniment? #This oldtime music class starts later this month and tnx to you all I'm going to be better prepared.

Jim

[mandocrucian]

Workshops at the Northern Virginia 4-H Center (http://www.ext.vt.edu/resources/4h/northern/), Front Royal, VA:

April 3-6, 2005: Beginning Bluegrass/Old-Time Mandolin (must have at least 6 months playing exp. )

<span style='color:red'>May. 8-11, 2005: RHYTHM Mandolin (Intermediate level and up)</span>

(Click on 4-H link for course details, etc. Mandolin and octave-mandolin making classes by "Luthier" Don Kawalek will also be held those same dates)

Niles Hokkanen

[Jim T]

Hi Niles, I've got a couple of your books and have gotten a lot out of both of them. I hear great things about your classes and I'd love to come to your Rhythm Mandolin class except for a couple of problems: 1). I'm only what I'd call an intermediate beginner (and a slow learner at that, LOL) and 2). I live on the opposite coast from you. I see the potential for another book from you based on basic rhythm mandolin playing. That seems to be a somewhat forgotten area but yet rhythm playing is likely to be what a person would be doing the most of when starting out jamming........hint hint!

Best Regards, Jim