Is a Gibson F5G a "Professional" Instrument?

[Mike Sutterfield]

At what point do the middle price range instruments start to be considered "used by the pros"? Don't see any pro's playing F9's. What about F5G's? What about other mandos in that price range? Thoughts?

[MikeEdgerton]

I play an F5G and I've made hundreds of dollars in my professional career.

The answer is actually yes.

[Trey Young]

I know the mandolin player from Chatham County Line plays(ed) one and they seem pretty professional...

[mandroid]

Only if you can get the gig to Pay You.. will it be Professional ..:whistling:

if you get enough $ & file as a Musician, you can depreciate the instrument purchases as tools
required to operate your business.

[Astro]

If an instrument reaches "professional grade" when the owner makes more off playing the mandolin than he spent on it, we're all in a heap of trouble.

I'm going to have to get a cheaper mandolin. :redface:

[stevedenver]

absolutely,
simply a plain fern, in essence

less figured woods. less ornamentation.
I don't believe they are tap tuned, but are still the same specs

I have seen more than a few pros on stage in Nashville, using the F5G

get a Harvey made one, have it well set up, and you are ready to be a pro

at one time the F5 G was indeed a fern, but without binding on the back, and I believe a simpler headstock ornamentation as well-mighta been a flowerpot instead of a fern as I recall
almost bought one in 09 locally , but found my fern for less on the net

while models may be indicative of overall hierarchy and quality, there are always exceptions-

while I love a certain level of ornamentation and detail, I would always buy a noticeably superior sounding and playing instrument over a looker.

[George R. Lane]

John Maberry of the Reno Tradition plays one and it sounds great.

[Mike Sutterfield]

What would be your advice be in the choice between an F5G and a Flatiron festival of the same year. Both out of the Nashville Factory? Most say they are the same mandolin with different peg head logos. In the here and now one cost $1500 more used than the other. Thoughts?

[stevedenver]

so does the fellow accompanying Jim Lauderdale playing at the Ryman I think (plays fiddle mando and guitar, and very well), and I noticed he had a current F5G judging from the plain headstock.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

I was thinking of asking a similar question on here the other day. Only I was going to ask which of the "pros" (do the quotes save me some form of uprising on semantics?) play Gibson MM's or DMM's. I know Skaggs plays a couple of his RSDMM's, but I don't know of others.

[stevedenver]

tramp, the answer is you have to play, or ask the seller for an honest opinion.
(this assumes he/she is a mando player and has an ear-many don't if they don't play or only know lower end stuff in my experience)

one thing I can say, is that a Nashville flatiron wont have the staying power in terms of re-sale as a Gibson, doesn't make sense, but I think its true.

otoh, if the flatiron is x braced, you may dig it, as these tend to be fuller, bassier, and more open-closer to a 'guitar' - I don't recall when the x went to tone bar-
while the tone bar bracing is all BG, and, fwiw, does take a few years of manic playing to break in-X's sound fuller right away, but also typically a different type of treble, not as cutting.

my only experience with Flatirons were from Montana, both pre and post Gibson, and those very are fine mandolins by and large, and recognized as such.

When it comes down to it, though, its your money, and 1500 is a lot to save.

If you are dedicated to mando, then you could go low and later trade up, or have a 'combat' mando and later get a better one still, or, buy the gibby, and know its money in the bank.

if the gibby is a Dave Harvey, id be prone to buy that one as he has a stellar rep for build and sound.

And I know this may sound nuts, but if you credit card it, you could buy both and return one, and not have to worry about anyone elses opinion. I have done this more than once, and the trick is to ask if they can send a call ticket from UPS, as typically, dealers have more favorable shipping rates than you or I as individuals. cost you about 150-200 for the opportunity to have both and send one back.

fwiw, if you care, BE SURE that the gibby flat iron is USA made, cos im not so sure about this , unless its shortly after gibby bought flatiron and moved it to Nashville...I thought they had some Chinese thing going on like with Epi ....

seems like 2001 and that era were very fine ones out of nashvegas, and I think x braced

at this point, ie the transition , I cant help you with exact details on gibby flatirons, but I suspect someone around here can

[Bradley]

I think with the F5G you are at the upper scale as far as the $4K market goes and perhaps one or two other mandolins
in that price range are close, but doesn't bear the Gibson name. To get something that is nicer you will pay the next price level of about $7K or so. If you are used to having a fully bound instrument then looking at the plain attributes of the F5G somedays leave you wanting more, but when it comes to sound and playability the F5G holds it own especially in the price range its in.

[Nick Triesch]

An F9 or an A5 would be a pro instrument.

[Mike Romkey]

The first response made me laugh out loud.

[tburcham]

I consider anyone the plays with an organized group on a regular basis for pay a professional musician. Virtually every Bluegrass Band that meets this definition has or has had a Gibson F5g or an F-9. Most touring Pros eventually upgrade to a Gibson mandolin with more flash (a Fern or a Master Model)...cause they can. I personally don't think there is any difference between the sound of a "good" F-9 and a Fern. In fact, the strongest mandolin I have ever played is my Dad's 2003 F-9. My Harvey built F-9 Custom (finished like an F5g) isn't far behind.

So, my answer is "Yes!"

[allenhopkins]

I've played professionally on a $25 Strad-O-Lin. It's the player who's professional, not the instrument.

That being said, an F-5G is a very good mandolin and can hold its own in most playing contexts.

[GDAE]

I must say I'm curious about why it matters if it's considered pro-level or not....

[Marty Jacobson]

How about an Ibanez or Washburn?

112279112280

[j. condino]

That Ibanez that Monroe is holding lives here in Asheville!

j.
www.condino.com

[almeriastrings]

I'm having a hard time thinking of any $4K-range mandolins that might not be considered as a "professional" level instrument.

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

I agree, it's the musician not the instrument. I woulf think of any Gibson F-9 or F5G as a "professional" instrument....heck even a $1500 "A" model or "F" model could even be considered a pro instrument. I think like one other gentlemen said...some more better known players might eventually upgrade to a high end Gibson just because it "is" one. However if you attend lot's of festivals, you'll see bands on the roster playing all sorts of different mandolins, some Gibsons and more well known builds, and some even hand made by a luthier friend or even by themselves. Just because you don't see any or very many playing F5G's and F9's certainly doesn't mean that their are some that are. I would consider either of those mandolins a professional grade "concert" instrument as do my own...my custom built Eddie Blevins F5. Even my Nashville Faltiron Fest "F" I would have considered pro grade as well. It's basically an F9 just with a different varnish and a few different apointments.
Just because it doesn't say Gibson or Collings or Nugget or whatever, doesn't mean that it can't be classified as a pro-instrument, quite the contrary.

[lorrainehornig]

I own a professional level mandolin, but I am definitely not a professional player...so I agree with those who state that professionalism is based on the musician and not the instrument. However, it is my greatest hope to rise to the ability level of professional, even if I never make a dime. The point at which mid-range instruments would be considered "used by the pros" is very subjective. An instrument may be (factually) constructed of top-notch materials with top-notch craftsmanship but that is only part of the equation. Also, I don't feel that everyone being paid to play is a professional. I guess, when all is said and done, professionalism is all about pure unadulterated skill.

[Bertram Henze]

I think, in a parallel world, mandolins are conversing on the Players' Paradise forum. They'll talk in threads about their many players, how they hope to acquire a new player and if their current player can be considered professional. Some of the threads get locked down, e.g. when some Washburn wants to get rid of its newbie player and pass him on to some gullible Ibanezes and Fenders...

[Pete Jenner]

I think, in a parallel world, mandolins are conversing on the Players' Paradise forum. They'll talk in threads about their many players, how they hope to acquire a new player and if their current player can be considered professional. Some of the threads get locked down, e.g. when some Washburn wants to get rid of its newbie player and pass him on to some gullible Ibanezes and Fenders...

Jeez Bertram, I'm glad I don't live in that world. I can't imagine any instrument wanting to own me - I'd probably end up as a wall decoration.

Of course the possibilities are endless. Imagine a rich Rogue buying Chris Thile. I wonder if Gilchrist would end up being owned by a Gilchrist.

[AlanN]

Just because it doesn't say Gibson or Collings or Nugget or whatever, doesn't mean that it can't be classified as a pro-instrument, quite the contrary.

And here's the reason some boys started taping over the name.

[Bertram Henze]

I'd probably end up as a wall decoration.

...or you'd get adopted by a banjo.

[Pete Jenner]

...or you'd get adopted by a banjo.


...arrrgghhh!!!

[Mike Sutterfield]

Well certainly a pro could make a living on a cheap instrument. I think that's a given. I'm a professional MAKING A LIVING playing guitar in Nashville since 2000. I can play cheap guitars (I choose not too) but the art I create is vastly inferior if the instrument I use doesn't inspire me. The questions are more from a perspective that I have outgrown my mandolin sonically where I feel like its missing something. Ultimately it is not very pleasing when I play it. I'm sure I could change everything on it and have some slight improvements but it's not worth that investment. SO...... I'm looking at buying an instrument that's not only the best bang for the buck but that I wouldn't outgrow as I start playing in professional situations. Make sense?

[Jai]

Levon Helm used to often play an A9 in later years - certainly not a mandolin virtuoso but definitely a professional and respected amongst the mandolin community (one of the finest rhythm mandolin players to grace this planet, in my opinion). And not bluegrass- but definitely respected, legendary and professional - Dave Swarbrick plays a Weber Gallatin oval these days - they're comparable to A9s. I doubt that 'cheap' is the reason that those guys are using those particular instruments. You can bet that they are/were happy and inspired by the sound. There is a kind of 'bluegrass bling' thing that goes on (this is just an observation from an Englishman who loves bluegrass but who inevitably approaches it with a certain amount of cultural distance) that requires mandolinists to have a sunburst f5 with inlays, binding and a fingerboard extension - none of which of course does anything for the sound or playability. I can understand why: they look gorgeous and Bill played one. Interestingly, amongst celtic musicians the taste seems to be more towards simple and plain A style mandolins and they all manage just fine :)

[roberto]

Well certainly a pro could make a living on a cheap instrument. I think that's a given. I'm a professional MAKING A LIVING playing guitar in Nashville since 2000. I can play cheap guitars (I choose not too) but the art I create is vastly inferior if the instrument I use doesn't inspire me. The questions are more from a perspective that I have outgrown my mandolin sonically where I feel like its missing something. Ultimately it is not very pleasing when I play it. I'm sure I could change everything on it and have some slight improvements but it's not worth that investment. SO...... I'm looking at buying an instrument that's not only the best bang for the buck but that I wouldn't outgrow as I start playing in professional situations. Make sense?
Make sense to me. I think the Harvey's F-5Gs sound really really great.

[samlyman]

Many professional players over the years have played instruments that were not overly-expensive. Yank Rachell played a Harmony "Batwing." If memory serves Jeff Austin of Yonder Mountain SB used to play a Flatiron F-5 before he bought his Gilchrist. I saw a full-time touring acoustic Grateful Dead cover band a couple of years ago (can't remember the name) and the mando player played an F-5G (it sounded tinny and had very little acoustic volume). So many working musicians have played "working class" instruments that Zeta produced a workingman's violin/fiddle a number of years ago.

This thread reminds me of the guy I would see at Seattle Folk Fest year after year with a Martin D45. The guy could only play 3 chords but he went out of his way to tell people he played a D45 (even though we were all blinded by all the mother of pearl and abalone every time the sun shone in his direction). The instrument doesn't make the player - the player makes the instrument (or not in the case of poor playing). Check out Grisman's Tone Poems to see how cheap plywood instruments with a decent setup and Grisman at the helm can sound great.

[Willie Poole]

a lot of it is a "status symbol", you have to play a Gibson if you are in a bluegrass band, at least that's what a lot of people think, as far as a F-5G being good enough to be played professionaly, the answer is by all means...I know the mandolin player for Nothing Fancy played one at one time and might still play it, and it sounds great..Myself I have recorded a few CD`s using a Flatiron Festival model which is pretty much the same mandolin as was pointed out earlier....

It is in the hands of the player not what name appears on the head stock....

Willie

[Mandomax]

Yes, an F5G is most definitely a pro-level instrument. It begs the question "Are you listening with your eyes or your ears?" If it has the tone, it has it, regardless of price point.
To comment on Sam's post above, Jeff Austin plays Drew Emmitt's old Nugget after he got rid of the Flatiron. The amplified sound he gets out of it is not pleasing to my ear.

[Mike Sutterfield]

Many professional players over the years have played instruments that were not overly-expensive. Yank Rachell played a Harmony "Batwing." If memory serves Jeff Austin of Yonder Mountain SB used to play a Flatiron F-5 before he bought his Gilchrist. I saw a full-time touring acoustic Grateful Dead cover band a couple of years ago (can't remember the name) and the mando player played an F-5G (it sounded tinny and had very little acoustic volume). So many working musicians have played "working class" instruments that Zeta produced a workingman's violin/fiddle a number of years ago.

This thread reminds me of the guy I would see at Seattle Folk Fest year after year with a Martin D45. The guy could only play 3 chords but he went out of his way to tell people he played a D45 (even though we were all blinded by all the mother of pearl and abalone every time the sun shone in his direction). The instrument doesn't make the player - the player makes the instrument (or not in the case of poor playing). Check out Grisman's Tone Poems to see how cheap plywood instruments with a decent setup and Grisman at the helm can sound great.

We can all point out a few cases where an instrument was better than the player and vice versa. Quality is what makes a fine instrument vs. a laminated P.O.S. I don't care about status. What I clarified in this thread was that I was looking for an instrument I wouldn't outgrow. I also said good players can play lesser instruments and still make great music because they are great musicians. I would guess a large percentage would much rather have a quality instrument they have bonded with than a cheap one. We can all generalize all we want. Lets be a realist. Everyone on this forum (talented or otherwise) would love to have a Gilchrist or a '24 Loar. Why would a person who had the fortune to own one of those prefer a Harmony or other "Lesser considered brands"(No offense intended to those who have an affinity for them, I know little about them and they may be wonderful!)? It's likely all of the stories and examples of greats with "lesser" instruments could be prefaced with " Although they own many other high end and master crafted instruments they have been seen or heard playing....." Like everyone else I want the best I can afford. I only asked because i'm not an expert on Gibson mandolins seeing how they are not readily available locally and I haven't played an F5G. Is it worth the $2000 bucks to step up to a higher end model? That's really the advice I'm looking for.
This was never a debate about talent. At least I didn't intend for it to be....:)

[Mike Sutterfield]

Yes, an F5G is most definitely a pro-level instrument. It begs the question "Are you listening with your eyes or your ears?" If it has the tone, it has it, regardless of price point.
To comment on Sam's post above, Jeff Austin plays Drew Emmitt's old Nugget after he got rid of the Flatiron. The amplified sound he gets out of it is not pleasing to my ear.

I saw Jeff Austin last night on Bluegrass Underground. I thought the nugget sounded pretty dang good. I thought from his facial expression he was about to pass out but other than that!!! :))

[Mike Sutterfield]

So to clarify :cool: I agree with everyone.......

[Ken Olmstead]

It is if a professional is playing it!

There are guys busking in the streets with Rover mandolins...they are also professional mandolins! :)

[Bertram Henze]

Interestingly, amongst celtic musicians the taste seems to be more towards simple and plain A style mandolins and they all manage just fine

True. This is the genre of understatement. The ratio of musical quality vs. looks is a direct measure of prestige, so any over-pretty instrument would be an unneccessary challenge to the player. You want to be able to have tears running from your audience's wide eyes with just the help of a cigar box. And you and the cigar box better look like you slept in it.

[samlyman]

Thanks for the correction... I should have said Nugget.

On the matter of the way Austin's Nugget sounds - I think this is an artifact from amplification. I jammed with Drew a ways back and remember that Nugget sounded great!

[Cary Fagan]

The cafe our band plays in gives each of us an absolutely free bottle of water. When they give us a beer, I'm going to call myself a professional.

[stevedenver]

tramp
im impressed that you are making a living, no less than in nasvegas

I totally understand too, that you're not getting what you want, and
I understand how motivating and inspiring a great instrument is
and, there comes a time when your technique and ear get dialed in and you need more

im not a music pro, but I play for money and I play out 3 times monthly, and after five years I thought my fern was not all I wanted.

I jumped from my fern to a brentrup , and an ellis, and then ....a rigel A, all of which I still have.


I would mention , if you like A's, you can get into a truly masterful superb sound arena on your budget or a tad more.
Fs have there own thing , but there is nothing like a great player on a great sounding mando, unless youre into the church of bluegrass, in which , an F may indeed be de rigueur.

[Pete Counter]

Didnt Ronnie McCoury play a Kentucky before he got his Gilcrist?

[FLATROCK HILL]

I know this is a bit off topic, but not too far off I hope.
This video was posted not long ago. http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?101990-VIDEO-Special-Consensus-Monroe-s-Doctrine
I think the mandolin sounds fantastic; certainly a 'pro' player. Looks like a Black Fern with a sawed off Florida. Does anyone know what it is?

[Mike Romkey]

Sorry for the double post. Would delete if I could figure out how.

[Mike Romkey]

Trampsinger: Thanks for the additional perspective about who you are and what you're trying to do. This is all obviously subjective, but my advice would be to spend a little more money and go up to the next level if you're looking for a professional-grade instrument you're not going to want to upgrade once you get into it ... if you can afford it. I used to own a Gibson F5 Steffey and I loved it, though when I played some "better" mandolins I liked them more. I've played a lot of Gs. I'm not saying they're not good and probably some are great, but I haven't played one that would make me wonder why I bought a Duff. World of difference. And from your perspective, if you want something that's going to challenge you and that you'll just love more and more every time you play it, take the next step. It's not like you've never played music and you're trying to decide if you need a Gilchrist as your first instrument. That said, there's nothing wrong with the Gs. And I just defied my own advice and bought a Collings mandola because 1) it was a lot more affordable than the next jump up 2) I'm not sure how much I'll play it 3) Collings doesn't make anything that sounds bad (though the mandolin sounds are a bit "modern" for my taste), and 4) it'll hold its value and be an easy resale. I'd say that's another option. Since you're in Nashville, go fool around with some and see what suits you. If you know someone you trust who plays mandolin, take them with you.

[George R. Lane]

Flatrock,
He plays a Hinde.

[jesserules]

I'm a professional MAKING A LIVING playing guitar in Nashville since 2000.

Okay, so what mandolins do you see being played by professional musicians in Nashville?

[Nick Triesch]

John Moore from Bluegrass Ect. plays a Kentucky or at least did for several years. He is really a super player and I think he was the teacher of......? Some one really famous.

[Mike Bunting]

John Moore from Bluegrass Ect. plays a Kentucky or at least did for several years. He is really a super player and I think he was the teacher of......? Some one really famous.
I think he plays a Flatiron in Bluegrass ETC. And he was indeed.

[jim simpson]

Look how professional I look holding my old F5G, I guess my head got cut off.

[E.Mailhot]

Only if you can get the gig to Pay You.. will it be Professional ..:whistling:

if you get enough $ & file as a Musician, you can depreciate the instrument purchases as tools
required to operate your business.

WAIT A MINUTE!!! people are supposed to PAY us to play??? well i once heard Darren Nicholson of Balsam range say that bluegrass musicians make tens and tens of dollars. so how many "tens$$" do you have to make to say you are a professional???

[Mike Sutterfield]

Okay, so what mandolins do you see being played by professional musicians in Nashville?

The only mandolins I see are in country are where players are utility and play small "Parts". Really dont see to many. My friends that play grass play Daleys

[Jeff Hildreth]

I know a mandolin player who plays at a farmers market in Calif one day a week. He makes around $200 each time. He paid for his Eastman 6 series in one month. I believe he is now playing a "professional" instrument.

I made $15 in 15 minutes playing a button accordeon that cost me $15. Ergo, the instrument and I are both "professionals"

Folks seem to be feigning humility with their apologies for owning a "professional" instrument... given that the perception of professional is "more money than you spent for you mandolin".

I bought a Washburn that was ciustom made for Jethro Burns. I got it from Chet Atkins. It was a reasonably priced 2 point oval hole that was exceeding well made with very fine woods and had "players wear". It was a professional instrument by definition, not by price chaeck.

Let's get price out of the equation. It is not an indicatior of quality or of any level of "professionalism".

[allenhopkins]

...I made $15 in 15 minutes playing a button accordeon that cost me $15...

Sorry you got overcharged...

[DataNick]

...otoh, if the flatiron is x braced, you may dig it, as these tend to be fuller, bassier, and more open-closer to a 'guitar' - I don't recall when the x went to tone bar...

Wanted to give some clarification on this: The "Nashville" Flatirons from 1999-2002 (Performer A and Festival F) are parallel or "tone-bar" braced. They are made to Loar specs per Charlie Derrington's re-tool of Gibson's production facilities for that purpose, in the same facility side by side with the Gibsons of that era. C. Derrington stated here: http://www.mandozine.com/resources/CGOW/derrington.php
that the Flatirons and Gibsons were identical in structure with only minor cosmetic differences, and that Gibson dc'd the Flatirons for self-competition reasons.

Only the "Nashville" Flatirons can really be considered equivalent to a Gibson F5G, and they typically go for $2200-$2500.

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

Wanted to give some clarification on this: The "Nashville" Flatirons from 1999-2002 (Performer A and Festival F) are parallel or "tone-bar" braced. They are made to Loar specs per Charlie Derrington's re-tool of Gibson's production facilities for that purpose, in the same facility side by side with the Gibsons of that era. C. Derrington stated here: http://www.mandozine.com/resources/CGOW/derrington.php
that the Flatirons and Gibsons were identical in structure with only minor cosmetic differences, and that Gibson dc'd the Flatirons for self-competition reasons.

Only the "Nashville" Flatirons can really be considered equivalent to a Gibson F5G, and they typically go for $2200-$2500.

My Flatiron Fest "F" I got in 2000 was a "Nashville Flat" and it started out kinda sucky but after it broke in it sounded really great, it had parallel tone bars and a quirky miss-bookmatched back of two pieces of funky Maple from opposing trees. One side was a bit striped or almost plain, the other had some bird's eye to it....I unloaded it...like a dork, one of my regrets....but oh well..I hope one day to maybe get it back....if possible for sentimental reasons....By the way, I considered it a professional mandolin 100%

I've seen some of the purtiest and some of the most horribly ugliest looking mandolins known to man in the hands of many awesome players in groups at festivals and many in well known groups.....some sounded good, some sounded better, some not so......it's the player not the mandolin. However, a better mandolin will be easier and you won't have to fight it so much to get tone out of it, so your technique won't suffer. But if I had a mandolin that I liked, sounded good and I was a pro and I liked it...so what? But if I wanted an F5 G or any other mandolin...it's ok also. Jessie McReynolds played Stivers for a long time and I also saw him in a video promoting Loar 700's so if he's playing one and he likes it, he's a pro....more power to him!

[DataNick]

My Flatiron Fest "F" I got in 2000 was a "Nashville Flat" and it started out kinda sucky but after it broke in it sounded really great, it had parallel tone bars and a quirky miss-bookmatched back of two pieces of funky Maple from opposing trees. One side was a bit striped or almost plain, the other had some bird's eye to it....I unloaded it...like a dork, one of my regrets....but oh well..I hope one day to maybe get it back....if possible for sentimental reasons....By the way, I considered it a professional mandolin 100%

I've played 3 besides my own 99 Performer A; they all sounded and played great. At the New Years Eve BG jam party this year we did a taste test between a 99 Nashville F5G and a 2001 Nashville Flatiron Festival F: no real discernible difference in build quality, neck feel, etc. Tone, volume, chop pop, etc. all equal. Verdict: no diff...

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

Well you wouldn't miss my Nashville Flatiron Fest "F" if you saw it......before I unloaded it, I had the peghead bound by a luthier in white binding...so if you see one like that, it probably used to be mine LOL

[Hallmark498]

does this count?

http://youtu.be/k_QLZVs2bps

[MikeEdgerton]

I have a simple test for mandolins. I pick it up and hit a G chop chord. If I can feel it reverberate in my chest I know I'm holding an instrument that that is worth me spending time with. If it doesn't then it's just a mandolin. I've only found a few that do that to me. What you find to be important might be different. I went from a really nice Eastman mandolin to a truly great Gibson F5G because of that. I played everything on the wall at Mandolin Brothers but kept coming back to that instrument. It wasn't the cheapest on the wall and it wasn't the most expensive, it was the one that spoke to me. If it was me I'd be on a journey looking for the mandolin that speaks to you. When you find it you'll know it.

[DataNick]

I have a simple test for mandolins. I pick it up and hit a G chop chord. If I can feel it reverberate in my chest I know I'm holding an instrument that that is worth me spending time with. If it doesn't then it's just a mandolin...

The first time I played my JBovier F5 Studio, the reverberation was so strong it was "frightening". I honest to God had never felt that much sound wave reverberation. I don't use a tone guard on it cause it would be overkill!

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

The first time I played my JBovier F5 Studio, the reverberation was so strong it was "frightening". I honest to God had never felt that much sound wave reverberation. I don't use a tone guard on it cause it would be overkill!

Maybe that's my problem...I have this big gut just swallowing up the whole back part of my mandolin....in effect acting like a giant damper (joking)

[f5loar]

While the F5G is in that $3000 range and many do seem to use them in pro bands, I've seen dozens of other makers for less than $3000 being used also. I think you cut off for a pro instrument is going to be closer to $1000 as in the KM900 and a few others in that $1000 to $2000 range.

[hlbly]

There should be a "like" button on here...

[MikeEdgerton]

There should be a "like" button on here...

There is. See that "Thanks" button with the thumbs up icon?

[David Lewis]

Rough guide is about 500.00 for a guitar, and 800.00 for a mandolin. At least in Australia. You can get bargains. But yep anything under 800. isn't really going to cut it.

[mando-tech]

At what point do the middle price range instruments start to be considered "used by the pros"? Don't see any pro's playing F9's. What about F5G's? What about other mandos in that price range? Thoughts?

In my opinion -NO ! When it comes to credentials, it seems that the F5G does not pack enough to be considered a real professional mandolin.

[DataNick]

In my opinion -NO ! When it comes to credentials, it seems that the F5G does not pack enough to be considered a real professional mandolin.

Well,

My buddy C.J. Lewandowski plays a 2015 David Harvey Gibson F9 and I dare say that most folks in this thread would have trouble either out-picking C.J. or making their mando sound any better than his F9...and oh yes, they're Pros...just got back from a European tour...so I would say that if an F9 can sound this good (and I've played several that were) then certainly an F5G is a "Pro" instrument...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTK2-JaKdBs

[MikeEdgerton]

You know there's a message here someplace where someone asked Joe Vest which mandolins made in Nashville up to that point sounded the best and his answer was "2 F5G's" if I recall. I wish I could find that. That F9 sounds good but then again I'm assuming that professional mandolin player could make pretty much anything sound good.

[DataNick]

...That F9 sounds good but then again I'm assuming that professional mandolin player could make pretty much anything sound good.

Yeah Mike!

C.J. is one humdinger of a Monroe picker!

...I had to add this: C.J. has been going on and on about that F9 for a couple of months...now I see why...

[slk]

Is there any difference between an F-5G and F-5G artist model?

[Russ Jordan]

John Mayberry makes his F5G sound mighty good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Jfpc1sGFg

[George R. Lane]

John Mayberry makes his F5G sound mighty good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Jfpc1sGFg


I have seen him on the Ronnie Reno TV show playing an F9, and it sounds great.

[almeriastrings]

Is there any difference between an F-5G and F-5G artist model?

Only the wording on the label. Gibson have a track record of confusing names and label changes.

As far as I can ascertain, they started using the 'Artist' designation on some labels around 2012. Prior to that, they carried a 'Master Model' label... I know... I know... even though not the same as the other 'Master Models' in the line. The ones with red spruce and varnish... it is possible they changed precisely to avoid such confusion.

F-5G's can be terrific mandolins capable of holding their own with just about anything (as can F-9's). As usual (especially with Gibson) it comes down to the individual example. If you can find a really good one - you are set.

[jim simpson]

I'm sure I've recounted this in the past but here goes anyway. Years ago I picked up an F5-G and used it the next day at a gig. It popped so loudly when I started a break that I honestly thought I had broken a string. It was the first mandolin that I owned that covered it all, tone, volume, & playability. It really set the bar high for future purchases.

[Emmett Marshall]

WAIT A MINUTE!!! people are supposed to PAY us to play???

No. No. No. You just keep gigging until all the money runs out.:))

[FLATROCK HILL]

Yeah Mike!

C.J. is one humdinger of a Monroe picker!


Yeah Nick...Your buddy C.J. sounds great. Nice pickin' on a good sounding mandolin for sure.

He also seems to have a rare talent that I admire. It ain't easy to play in crisp, perfect rhythm while back-phrasing your words in that sort of a relaxed, Lester Flatt style.

[roberto]

This is me with my F5G. Love that sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPSsabl8v34

[Mike Snyder]

Recently bought a Mike Black A4 that made evident some shortcomings in my F5G. The big round diffuse nature of the Black is in stark contrast to the focused mid-range power of the Gibson. Slightly nasal but still the "woof" on the chop that the bgrassers love. And volume to spare. Irish jams on the smallish side, definitely the A4 with tone to die for, and any small ensemble stuff or solo busking. For power stuff, big ITM sessions or the rare bluegrass scene the F5G is the ticket. Also, the neck is much narrower on the Gibson. Deeper but under 1 1/16" at the nut. And I've played it for 10 years and the Black is still a little harder to play as cleanly. No doubt in my mind that any F5G from Derrington to present is pro quality. So, the slightly nasal quality in comparison to a stellar A4, some finish defects in comparison to a perfect A4, and the nitro finish as tough as nails but (probably) not as warm as varnish. Truth; I have played varnished Gibsons that I would not trade my F for. All mandolins are the same except the ones that are different.

[DataNick]

That was cool Roberto!

Really nice tone on that F5G and nicely done on that tune!

[mgap]

The first response made me laugh out loud.

Ditto.

I showed my wife and told her what my (our)life could be, hmm... she was not amused. ha

[Rheatown]

I'm sure I've recounted this in the past but here goes anyway. Years ago I picked up an F5-G and used it the next day at a gig. It popped so loudly when I started a break that I honestly thought I had broken a string. It was the first mandolin that I owned that covered it all, tone, volume, & playability. It really set the bar high for future purchases.

I have had a similar experience with my F-5G. I also have to hold back in jams because it is so loud. I do my repairs at the Gibson repair shop and Danny Roberts always does a good job. It comes back at about 90% of the sound of my Ellis F special.

[roberto]

That was cool Roberto!

Really nice tone on that F5G and nicely done on that tune!

Thank you, Nick!

[drbluegrass]

I traded a guitar (Martin '37 D-18 Authentic) and my Red Diamond 1922 "Crusher" voiced mandolin because I was wanting a top quality banjo for recording. I ended up trading the RD for a Harvey built F5G and a D.P. Hopkins Phoenix banjo (later bought two Yates banjos). The F5G beat out a Daly, a couple Collings, an Elk Horn, a couple Webers and a couple Northfields for my final choice. One of the Collings' was a couple thousand more. I thought the drop off in tone from the RD to the F5G would be drastic...it wasn't. Actually they just sounded different from one another. The F5G has a little more body and fullness and the RD had a slight bit more top end. My ears like the rounder, more full tone, but the F5G still has plenty of sweet top end. Most of the other mandolins I tried lacked the fuller sound of the F5G. The F5G really sounds shockingly good. There was little, if any, drop off in tone quality. I couldn't be happier. My Harvey F5G isn't going anywhere. I think you can spend thousands more on a mandolin and just get more bling. To get anything that actually sounds better you'd have to get into the tens of thousands more. Next mandolin in my sights to add to the F5G will be a Steve Hinde. The guy makes killer mandolins. Just ask Rick Faris with Special Consensus.

[multidon]

Roberto, why is there no "Gibson" on your headstock?

[Eddie Sheehy]

I've got a killer custom F5G-SB... It's to die for...
I've also got a killer Mike Black A4 (with a virzi) but it's no match for the F5G. Might be the Red Spruce top...

[Johnny60]

Multidon - wondered the same thing myself! I maximised the screen size and you can see that there's a piece of black tape over the Gibson name. No idea why.

[roberto]

Roberto, why is there no "Gibson" on your headstock?


Multidon - wondered the same thing myself! I maximised the screen size and you can see that there's a piece of black tape over the Gibson name. No idea why.

There's a "The Gibson" under the tape. ;)
I love Gibson, but it's just that I'm not an endorser.

[MikeEdgerton]

In homage to all of the greats that have done the same. Monroe carved the name out with a pocket knife, Grisman and Wakefield and I'm sure others covered the name with tape. This shouldn't be unusual to anyone.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?22638-Dawg%27s-blackened-headstock

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?2948-Whats-up-with-the-tape

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?14673-Great-Close-up-of-A-Lloyd-Loar-Headstock

And then there's Rhonda Vincent...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?49156-Rhonda-Vincent-gig-Webers-Impromptu-Interview

[roberto]

And John Reischman banjo player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtEFXm7eobg

[dhergert]

You can tell that a musician is a professional by the model of plunger that he or she plays.

If he or she can pull wonderful tone out of a plunger, doing so with a nice mandolin should be a lot easier.

-- Don

[DataNick]

I've got a killer custom F5G-SB... It's to die for...
I've also got a killer Mike Black A4 (with a virzi) but it's no match for the F5G. Might be the Red Spruce top...

Easy there Pilgrim...we don't want the word to get out...LOL!


And Mike, that Rhonda Vincent story in that thread has just made my day!