Kentucky 855 Fit and Finish - Should I return it?

[cbrann]

Hi gang!
I just bought a Kentucky model 855 mandolin and it really sounds great! Very nice tone. After driving 50 miles there and back yesterday, I pulled it out to play today and noticed fit and finish issues around the scroll on the back. Specifically, there is a kind of gutter between the binding and the wood. It's not sanded down smooth like the rest of the instrument and looks a bit ragged. There is a noticeable ridge as a result.

I know this is a Chinese made instrument but I thought I could expect better quality at this price point ($1095). On the other hand I just don't want to make the trip back to the store if this is just the norm for the Kentucky brand.

Any thoughts Kentucky owners?

[almeriastrings]

Could you post a photo?

Certainly, in my experience, that is not at all typical. Fit and finish on these is usually very good.

[roysboy]

I have to agree ....anytime I've come across a Kentucky mandolin they've looked pretty darned nice .....my own has a beautiful finish and no issues . 1000.00 is a LOT of money to layout for shoddy workmanship and I would return the instrument in a heartbeat .

[Ivan Kelsall]

Return it to the store where you bought it ASAP. IF anything else should go wrong with it,you don't want the 'finger of suspicion' pointed at you. The Kentucky brand of mandolins is known for good workmanship,but you can expect the occassional 'rogue' slipping through,it's just the nature of the manufacturing business. If it sounds ok,then 'maybe' if they give you some cash back,it could be a good deal,but you have to consider re-sale issues with another buyer if you came to sell it yourself,
Ivan

[cbrann]

Here are pictures of the areas of the Mando that are suspect. The first picture is a spot on the binding on the back but the most noticeable one was the back scroll - picture number 2 - right along 2 edges of the binding. You can also see it along the front scroll in picture 3 - this might be the clearest picture I was able to take.
From what you've already said I should be taking this back. Snowing pretty bad here today in Southeast Michigan - might have to wait until tomorrow or Saturday.
What do ya think?

[Steve Ostrander]

I've always thought that the fit and finish on KY mandos was not up to par with, say, Eastman. Your photos bear this out. Having said that, I am a fan of the KY sound and I've owned 3 of them. Problem is, you might take it back and get one that doesn't sound as good. To paraphrase Billy Crystal, "It's better to sound good than look good!" I'd play the replacement before I swapped.

[almeriastrings]

Here are pictures of the areas of the Mando that are suspect. The first picture is a spot on the binding on the back but the most noticeable one was the back scroll - picture number 2 - right along 2 edges of the binding. You can also see it along the front scroll in picture 3 - this might be the clearest picture I was able to take.
What do ya think?

I have NEVER seen a Kentucky with anything remotely resembling work like that - and I've seen quite a lot.

It is most categorically not typical. Their work is usually really clean and precise.

Something seriously wrong there.

Return it ASAP.

[EdHanrahan]

... after driving 50 miles there and back ...

Some here would love to have a grocery store that close! Many here would happily drive that far just to browse some "better-than-GC-quality" mandos. Unless you're talking 10 mph in the unpaved outback, all (but maybe one?) would drive 50 miles to exchange a questionable instrument in a heartbeat!

[Gene Summers]

I agree, take it back and exchange it for another that you have played, examined very carefully! Take your time, take your magnifying glass too! $1k is a considerable amount of money to pay for seconds. Good luck! :disbelief: Happy New Year!

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

To me just looks like the binding was poorly scraped in the inside of the scroll area, not to mention the routing channel was not really even so when they bound it they did a botched job with some filler....you could take it to a luthier and have some of the binding on the inside scraped a bit more even....the filler job? not sure.......but if it sounds good just try doing that. Might get it switched out for a new one that has perfect binding but lousy sound, or one that doesn't sound as good as this one....I mean this is all just cosmetic.....just my 2 cents for what it's worth..

[bluemoonofky]

If you love the way it sounds, maybe the strap will cover it up and it won't bug you as much...
But if it was me and I spent that much $$$$ I would take it back - just play the new one to ensure you like it as much.

I love my Kentucky and have always thought the KM-855 was a good looking mandolin.

[sunburst]

A different perspective:
It has points and scrolls, it was around $1000, and you expect it to look better than that?
I'd say, if "fit and finish" on something as superfluous as a scroll on a $1000 mandolin is better than that, it's a bonus. I think you should play it, not return it.

[multidon]

For my 2 cents worth. I recently acquired a KM 600 which is a discontinued F model. Mine has roughness around the scroll similar to yours but not to that extent and nothing like the "gutter" you have. On mine there is rough and uneven finish, unevenly scraped binding, a very small chip on the edge of the binding channel, and a couple of small finish stains on the binding. All of this is INSIDE the scroll where nobody can see it without close examination. I used a little micro mesh to take off the stains. other than that nobody sees it so who cares? The fit and finish everywhere else is flawless. The only part less than stellar is inside the scroll. Now, to be fair, getting the inside of scrolls right is very hard and takes a lot of time and skill. To me, with everything else about this mandolin being so right, this was probably the one thing the let slide to keep the cost point low. I think the KM 600 was made to sell at around 550 dollars or so. When you think about getting a carved f style for that kind of money a little sloppiness around the scroll is forgivable and a fair trade off.

Kentucky mandolins fall into 3 categories: standard series, artist series, and master series. Both yours and mine are in the artist series. You would see correctly finished scrolls on the master series which are made in a different facility. They are also twice as much as you paid. I think on f styles priced like this a little roughness in the scroll is to be expected. That being said, I would not accept as big a flaw as your "gutter" at that price point. They can do better. If I was you I would trade it in for a better looking example. Notice I said better looking not perfect. I don't think you can expect perfect at that price but you should be able to get pretty good. You should be able to get another one that sounds good since in that regard at least Kentuckys are pretty consistent. Did you get it at Elderly? I know they would want you to be satisfied.

[cbrann]

Thanks so much everyone!
I really appreciate the feedback. Not having really shopped mandolins much before, I wasn't sure what I could expect from a chinese made instrument in the $1000 price range. I'm sure that the scroll is a difficult area to get right, especially in a production line shop. I emailed Elderly Instruments and they said that this type of work around the scroll was not that uncommon for this price range. They have a couple of more 855's in stock so I'm going to go back and check them out. I should be able to get a good one with a few choices to look at.
Thanks again and Happy New Year!
Craig

[Ivan Kelsall]

From John Hamlett - " I think you should play it, not return it.". If it sounds good,as John says,& as i intimated in my first post,maybe you should keep it & ask for some cash back. However - I've seen a couple of Kentucky mandolins that were excellent re.their fit & finish & again,as i said,you might just have a 'rogue' that slipped through. It's not unrealistic to expect your mandolin to be as good as the 'others',so i'd return it,talk to the sellers & make a decision then,;)
Ivan

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

A different perspective:
It has points and scrolls, it was around $1000, and you expect it to look better than that?
I'd say, if "fit and finish" on something as superfluous as a scroll on a $1000 mandolin is better than that, it's a bonus. I think you should play it, not return it.

I think this is the best advice, you should follow this.....

[cayuga red]

Hi gang!
I just bought a Kentucky model 855 mandolin and it really sounds great! Very nice tone. After driving 50 miles there and back yesterday, I pulled it out to play today and noticed fit and finish issues around the scroll on the back. Specifically, there is a kind of gutter between the binding and the wood. It's not sanded down smooth like the rest of the instrument and looks a bit ragged. There is a noticeable ridge as a result.



I know this is a Chinese made instrument but I thought I could expect better quality at this price point ($1095). On the other hand I just don't want to make the trip back to the store if this is just the norm for the Kentucky brand.

Any thoughts Kentucky owners?

You are already unhappy with it. Return it while you still can.

[FLATROCK HILL]

A nicely done scroll may be a lot to expect from a $1000 mandolin...I don't know. And maybe it's too much to expect a $1000 mandolin to both look good and sound good. All I know is that the workmanship on your scroll is sub-par compared to other Kentuckys I've seen.

Not sure by your post if it's 50 mi one way for 50 mi round trip but in either case, you're plenty close to bring it back and talk it over with someone. You might want to wait until the snow lets up a little though.

[mandolin tony]

Hi every one & happy new year. I have a 805 & the fit & finish is perfect, I say drive back an look them all over & pick one that makes you happy. I got mine from folk musician & I am very happy with it. the pictures of the 805 are my mandolin.

[sunburst]

...I have a 805 & the fit & finish is perfect...

Nothing personal, but that's impossible. The fit & finish of a Collings is not perfect. It all comes down to whether fit and finish is the important thing, or whether sound, feel and playability are more important, and it comes down to what is acceptable at what price, in terms of fit and finish.

[Paul Hird]

Regardless of anyone's advice, good or bad, it still boils down to whether you are unhappy with the product. If you are going to question your decision to keep it every time you pick up the mandolin to play it or just look at it, regretting you kept it, that will be a bad thing. If you can put the flaws out of your head from the moment you make a decision, that is good. Play and enjoy. From what I can glean from your comments you seem to be leaning toward returning it. If that is what you choose, at least you will feel like you had an option to correct the problem and find one that is satisfactory to you.

[Mike Scott]

Regardless of anyone's advice, good or bad, it still boils down to whether you are unhappy with the product. If you are going to question your decision to keep it every time you pick up the mandolin to play it or just look at it, regretting you kept it, that will be a bad thing. If you can put the flaws out of your head from the moment you make a decision, that is good. Play and enjoy. From what I can glean from your comments you seem to be leaning toward returning it. If that is what you choose, at least you will feel like you had an option to correct the problem and find one that is satisfactory to you.

I think you have received a lot of good advice so far. I think this one is the best!

[cbrann]

Well . . . I got over to Elderly Instruments this afternoon (70 miles one way as it turns out) but I'm glad I did. Now . . believe me - sound is more important than looks in my book too. I just thought that I might get both on a new instrument.

I looked at two other Kentucky 855s to compare looks and sound. Sound was my overall priority but I was able to improve both. I was surprised actually by the amount of difference in the three instruments of the same model which, by the way, they didn't all display normally. They pulled them out of the back room for me. I picked one that had nice evenness of tone and sustain across all strings a frets. Lucky me, it also had the best workmanship as well. There was another that had even worse workmanship than the one I had originally!

As some of you said, I would have been second guessing myself if I hadn't gone back. I was so glad to be able to try some of the other instruments and come up with one that I am happier with. As a side note, there was an Eastman MD315c there that also caught my eye. Probably the best instrument they had under $800 (it was $600). Very nice action, reasonable sound (but not as resonant) and great workmanship. Still, highly appealing.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Really glad to hear that things worked out well for you. And glad to hear you're happy with your new KM-855. Hope you're completely and totally satisfied with it for years to come.
Hmmmm...only 70 miles separating you from the good folks at Elderly. Keep us posted!;)

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

Well if you're happy, in spite of everyone advice, that's all that matters. Still, couldn't someone have just scraped the binding inside of that scroll to clean it up a bit more? Would a luthier charge alot to do that? The other area with the botched filler job around the binding, wouldn't be hardly noticable unless if someone looked at it really close right?

[Jesse Harmon]

Well, that's just one more story about the fine people working at Elderly and of course the man who runs the show. I hope they never lose their patience for these situations. Not enough good can be said about all of them. Glad you took the time since it bothered you. I remember my Dad, after putting in a beautiful hardwood floor would always point out the one flaw whenever we had company. Don't know whether he would have been better off to tear it up and fix it or not since it was always something he could use to talk about the floor.;)

[Timbofood]

Glad to hear everything has proven satisfactory, the crew at Elderly are top flight people!

[cbrann]

Well if you're happy, in spite of everyone advice, that's all that matters. Still, couldn't someone have just scraped the binding inside of that scroll to clean it up a bit more? Would a luthier charge alot to do that? The other area with the botched filler job around the binding, wouldn't be hardly noticable unless if someone looked at it really close right?


I'm not sure a bit of scraping or sanding would have done the job because of the finish. This mandolin has a glossy lacquer finish, even over the binding. I think scraping it would also involve putting on some lacquer there. Even though the area could be made flush it would the appearance would stick out more because of the differing texture and color of the resulting raw wood. Blending new lacquer into the existing finish is well beyond my abilities and probably would be more than I would be willing to pay someone else to do it. Thanks for the recommendation though!! I appreciate you giving some thought.

I'm editing my above response . . . .
I've just looked at my posted pictures again and I see you were looking at the inside of the scroll as many others may have as well. My disappointment in the instrument was with the top of the finish. Perhaps the pictures don't really show the problem very clearly but the binding doesn't line up with the back very flush and there is a bump line there. That is the "gutter" I'm referring to. It needed to be fitted better and sanded more thoroughly.