View Full Version : Need An Opinion on a Big Muddy Mandolin
Gregooch
Dec-12-2013, 4:49pm
I am considering a trade for my 2010 Gibson LP faded USA model along with either my Fender vibro champ amplifier or my old 1963 Gibson Hawk Amp. LP and the vibro champ are like new used only a handful of times in my house, the Gibson Hawk is going to probably need new tubes and a new power chord at some point but does work. The trade is for a very nice looking M-4w which looks to be about equally new and taken care of also has a custom mural painted on the top - an outdoor scene with deer and geese etc. Looks to be very nice. Seems to be fairly equal plus he gets the amp of his choice, both have plush cases. just wondering if anyone has experience with or opinions on the Big Muddy.
George R. Lane
Dec-12-2013, 5:27pm
From what I have seen these are good intermediate instruments which sell for under 1k. It seems to me you are trading a lot of gear for what you are getting in return. Just my opinion. Hopefully others with more knowledge will chime in.
F-2 Dave
Dec-12-2013, 5:54pm
I'm with George. It seems to be a lopsided deal. Personally the painting on the top of the mandolin would be a deal killer for me. Can't speak to the quality of the Big Muddy. They seem to have a very good reputation, building a quality product.
Eric F.
Dec-12-2013, 6:12pm
I have no idea what the value of your stuff is, and I wouldn't want a mandolin with a painting on the top. That said, the Big Muddy M4 is a fine instrument. I've played several and owned one. I'd happily own another.
I just recently purchased a Big Muddy M-11. I love it. I have enjoyed every Big Muddy I have tried. Very substantive instrument. If you didn't care about orthodox bluegrass it could be the only mandolin you would ever need. And its very affordable.
It depends on the painting. If the painting on that thing is half way decent I could really like it. I customized by Aspen II years ago (a cowboy scene), and I love taking it out.
If you don't like it you may be able to have it removed and have something painted on you do like. :)
Gregooch
Dec-12-2013, 6:25pm
I have no idea what the value of your stuff is, and I wouldn't want a mandolin with a painting on the top. That said, the Big Muddy M4 is a fine instrument. I've played several and owned one. I'd happily own another.aus
The choice was the LP and either the small fender amp or the '63 Gobson which will need some new tubes etc. and could concevably be worth some dollars in the end. Also, Is the painting a deal breaker because it would affect the tone or just because you prefer the plain wood? Does anyone know how that is applied, hand painted or some other method? The painting looks really nice if it's not going to hurt the tone.
multidon
Dec-12-2013, 7:20pm
The value of a used Big Muddy is around 400-450 dollars. Thats what they routinely go for based on the fact that new ones are around 699. That is todays street price also for a brand new LP faded. So used value is about the same. I would say an even trade the LP for the Big Muddy would be fair to both parties. No need to throw in the amp unless you are just trying to get rid of it.
F-2 Dave
Dec-12-2013, 7:30pm
aus
The choice was the LP and either the small fender amp or the '63 Gobson which will need some new tubes etc. and could concevably be worth some dollars in the end. Also, Is the painting a deal breaker because it would affect the tone or just because you prefer the plain wood? Does anyone know how that is applied, hand painted or some other method? The painting looks really nice if it's not going to hurt the tone.
I don't have any idea what effect if any, the painting would have on the tone. I'd just prefer my mandolin sans deer and geese. No disrespect intended to people who like paintings of deer and geese on their mandolins.
allenhopkins
Dec-12-2013, 8:23pm
Gibson Les Paul Studio faded approx. $400-450 used.
Used Fender Vibro Champ approx. $350-400.
Gibson Hawk used approx. $300.
Above prices from quick Google searches. So say you're offering $700-850, and one of the amps may need some new tubes.
Big Muddy M-4 on sale here (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/msg/4237841996.html) for $625 used. Mid-Missouri (predecessor to Big Muddy, same builder) on sale here (http://atxmusictrade.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/mid-missouri-mandolin-m-4-big-muddy-z/) for $425 used.
Off the cuff, think you're upside down on the trade. Now, if you love the artwork, that could enter into your calculations. Generally, additional layers of paint on an instrument's top don't enhance the sound, but you can put your own esthetic value on the after-market enhancement.
i would negotiate a bit, IMHO.
Gregooch
Dec-13-2013, 7:36am
Gibson Les Paul Studio faded approx. $400-450 used.
Used Fender Vibro Champ approx. $350-400.
Gibson Hawk used approx. $300.
Above prices from quick Google searches. So say you're offering $700-850, and one of the amps may need some new tubes.
Big Muddy M-4 on sale here (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/msg/4237841996.html) for $625 used. Mid-Missouri (predecessor to Big Muddy, same builder) on sale here (http://atxmusictrade.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/mid-missouri-mandolin-m-4-big-muddy-z/) for $425 used.
Off the cuff, think you're upside down on the trade. Now, if you love the artwork, that could enter into your calculations. Generally, additional layers of paint on an instrument's top don't enhance the sound, but you can put your own esthetic value on the after-market enhancement.
i would negotiate a bit, IMHO.
Thanks for the research Allen and everyone.
I am trading the Studio LP with the Gibson Amp for the Big Muddy Mando. I originally had plans to restore the Gibson Hawk to use along with my Studio LP but as I found myself not really getting into the whole electric thing after buying the LP, the Hawk just sat in a closet for 3 or 4 years. It does work - I tested it this morning but it makes some static like sounds could even be normal sounds for an amp that old? But I do like think I will the mandolin and get more use out of it and I figured the amp is going to a good home and will get the restore that it needs. So I will probably go ahead with the trade today assuming both parties are happy.
Personally I would not attach any dollar value to the art work unless you are a collector of "grass roots" art... which is a real possibility as some people do collect it. Was this sold new with the art work already on it? or was it painted on by an owner? If painted on by an owner it may have some value to collectors of primative art but that is questionable...???
As far as the Big Muddy is concerned, if you are looking for a great sounding instrument you are on the right track. A used Big Muddy is probably worth $500 in good condition (a guess).
Steve L
Dec-13-2013, 9:25am
You're trading about $900 dollars worth of gear for about $300 worth of mandolin.
Gregooch
Dec-13-2013, 9:33am
You're trading about $900 dollars worth of gear for about $300 worth of mandolin.
here is a link to the listing.
http://providence.craigslist.org/msg/4215599662.html
Steve L
Dec-13-2013, 9:46am
De gustibus non est disputandum.
Canoedad
Dec-13-2013, 9:47am
here is a link to the listing.
http://providence.craigslist.org/msg/4215599662.html
That's not paint. It's much better IMO. I was expecting to be fairly horrified, but it's actually quite nice.
multidon
Dec-13-2013, 10:07am
Wow I like the artwork! It looks familiar. I think I ve seen it in a listing before. Good news is since its woodburning not paint no effect on tone at all.
Tim2723
Dec-13-2013, 10:13am
Now that it has become clear that it isn't a painted scene I have a potential concern. This might be a question for the luthiers here, but would a wood-burned scene affect the response of the soundboard? Somehow I just intuitively think that would be a very bad thing to do.
EDIT: Sorry Don, I didn't see your post in time. You're confident that it would have no bad affect then? I suppose in the end it's not much different than some scratches in the surface.
BlueMt.
Dec-13-2013, 10:24am
It would depend on how heavy handed the woodburning artist was. ;)
If you are buying it as a work of art there is no way to estimate its value, because it is simply a matter of what one will pay. The wood burning would reduce the price I would pay for the instrument. But that's just me.
I suspect it would do little harm to the instrument or tone.
JeffD
Dec-13-2013, 10:39am
That is a really really cool mandolin.
I don't know any way to even guess the value of the mandolin as modified. Probably, realistically, no extra value. So on a dollars and cents basis I would assume the instrument value as if it were a regular instrument on the secondary market.
Then look at how much extra you are trading above that and ask yourself if you like the art work that much.
FWIW I like it. But I am the guy that had this (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/album.php?albumid=10&attachmentid=61236) done.
Gregooch
Dec-13-2013, 11:03am
Thanks for all your input. I am going to check it out at noon. I will report back tonight after I get home.
Dave Weiss
Dec-13-2013, 11:16am
I saw that mandolin listed a few years ago. If I recall correctly, it was listed for 5 or 6 hundred $??? I was seriously interesed, but didn't have the money. If you're trading stuff that you don't use any more and really want that mandolin, then go for it. I doubt that the artwork had any affect on the sound. Good luck!
stevejay
Dec-13-2013, 2:17pm
The wood burning is tastefully done. I don't see how it could affect tone at all. Unique and very nice. Big Muddys/Missouri are a little "twangy" to some people. But the tone is the tone, and it isn't "cheap" sounding, just different. I need to restring up my Walnut Big Muddy, miss it.
Tim2723
Dec-13-2013, 4:58pm
Well, there are those who subscribe to the idea that 1/1000 of a millimeter of extra finish has a negative effect, so woodburning might be questionable.
Canoedad
Dec-13-2013, 5:04pm
The Big Muddy is now removed from Craigslist. Did you get it Greg?
Jeff:
Pretty cool!! Cowboy and cactus... Now that is Fine Art!!!
8ch(pl)
Dec-14-2013, 6:37am
For what itr is worth, the M-4 is the top of the Big Muddy Line. I believe it is priced new about $150 more than the M-1 Mahogany model. The M-4 is Rosewood. I have both am M-1 and an M-4. The M-4 is Brighter sounding than the Mellow M-1. I prefer the M-4 for playing with other instruments (ie in Church Worship band) and the M-1 for accompanying my voice.
Gregooch
Dec-14-2013, 7:58pm
The Big Muddy is now removed from Craigslist. Did you get it Greg?
Haven't had a chance to pick it up until now. I love it. He told me never really played it all and it shows. I also feel pretty good that the Amp has a good home where it will get the attention it deserves. To my taste the strings might be a little high but maybe that is how they are supposed to be, as it plays really nice, no buzzing or anything. It really is very tastefully done and IMO it looks better then the same mando would without it. I just learned a couple of new songs on it well; by ear anyway but they're sounding pretty good.
Thanks for all the tips and advice and I really did take it to heat pro and con but I think I was blinded by the light as they say. Tell me; how do you change the strings on this with a sealed tail piece? Usually the are open or the strings just slide through from the bottom? Does the tail piece open up?
Dave Weiss
Dec-14-2013, 8:29pm
Just pull at the top of the tailpiece cover and it should come right off. Were any extra bridges with the mando? Check the compartment in the middle of the case. If not, contact Mike Dulak at Big Muddy and see if he can send you a lower bridge. He makes them in high, medium and low. Sounds like you've got the high one. I'm glad you got it, enjoy!!!
Gregooch
Dec-14-2013, 8:58pm
Just pull at the top of the tailpiece cover and it should come right off. Were any extra bridges with the mando? Check the compartment in the middle of the case. If not, contact Mike Dulak at Big Muddy and see if he can send you a lower bridge. He makes them in high, medium and low. Sounds like you've got the high one. I'm glad you got it, enjoy!!!
Thanks guys. I tried getting on their web site and I get all kinds of error messages? What's up with that?
bratsche
Dec-14-2013, 9:08pm
Mike Dulak's e-mail address is swingdog AT bigmuddymandolin.com.
Congrats on the acquisition, BTW, and play it in good health!
bratsche
Gregooch
Dec-14-2013, 9:09pm
For what itr is worth, the M-4 is the top of the Big Muddy Line. I believe it is priced new about $150 more than the M-1 Mahogany model. The M-4 is Rosewood. I have both am M-1 and an M-4. The M-4 is Brighter sounding than the Mellow M-1. I prefer the M-4 for playing with other instruments (ie in Church Worship band) and the M-1 for accompanying my voice.
Is it a Spruce top and Rosewood back and sides. I beleive the necks are maple but I could be wrong?
Dave Weiss
Dec-14-2013, 9:09pm
Give him a call, It's a worthwhile phone call ;).
Phone 573-698-3300
email swingdog@bigmuddymandolin.com
make sure you put the word mandolin in the subject line
*** mahogany necks...
Dave Weiss
Dec-14-2013, 9:14pm
Yes, spruce top, rosewood back and sides, mahogany neck.
8ch(pl)
Dec-15-2013, 7:01am
I should have said back and sides. My instruments are Mis Missouris and about 12 to 15 years old.
Gregooch
Dec-15-2013, 8:22am
I did message Mike on Facebook, haven't heard back yet, if I don't I will try e mailing however although I may have the higher bridge it actually plays very nice, no buzzing, no problems picking, strumming or tremolo'ing, if that's even a word? I do want to know if he has any spec sheets or anything like that and find out the year and how many were made like this with the painting just out o
Gregooch
Dec-15-2013, 8:24am
I did message Mike on Facebook, haven't heard back yet, if I don't I will try e mailing however although I may have the higher bridge it actually plays very nice, no buzzing, no problems picking, strumming or tremolo'ing, if that's even a word? I do want to know if he has any spec sheets or anything like that and find out the year and how many were made like this with the painting just out o
just out of curiosity is what I was going to write but my computer froze up and I couldn't finish my last post.
Steve L
Dec-15-2013, 8:35am
[QUOTE=Dave Weiss;1232304]Just pull at the top of the tailpiece cover and it should come right off.
I'd be careful about pulling at the top of the tailpiece. Most of those stamped tailpiece tops are designed to slide off, not pull open.
Gregooch
Dec-15-2013, 8:35am
Why all the problems getting on the Big Muddy website. Does anyone know what's going on with that? I get warning messages every time I try to pull it up that say this site is not trusted etc?
multidon
Dec-15-2013, 12:39pm
Web sites are usually certified to assure the user that the site is not fraudulent. According to my browser (I use Safari) the certificate is expired. Mike needs to renew it. I just click on to continue anyway since I am 100 percent certain that the Big Muddy Web site is not fraudulent.
Since Big Muddys do not have adjustable bridges action adjustments are often made by using different height bridges made by Mike. I have always wondered though why more people don't upgrade these to an adjustable bridge. They are available for flat tops.
Just in the interest of accuracy the "rosewood" Mike uses is not true rosewood. He uses "Bolivian rosewood". This a a lumber trade name for the tropical hardwood also known as morado, Pau Ferro, or ironwood. It looks like rosewood but it's not. Not that this is a bad thing. Pau Ferro is a very fine tonewood. Luthiers love it because it is easy to work with. It bends easily I have heard. It is easy to finish because it does not require pore filling like true rosewood. I used to have a "rosewood" Mid-Mo (predecessor to Big Muddy) that really impressed me. I was sad to let it go but it just wasn't getting played. There is no downside to "Bolivian rosewood" except that the term is a bit misleading. Lumber trade names can be a real mine field to negotiate. "Brazilian cherry" and "Brazilian walnut", as two other examples, have nothing whatsoever to do with cherries and walnuts.
Gregooch
Dec-15-2013, 1:31pm
Interesting info about the tone woods thanks, Don.
Dave Weiss
Dec-15-2013, 1:44pm
Years ago I talked to Mike about putting an adjustable bridge on my Big Muddy and he advised against it. Mike did a lot of experimenting to come up with what works best, the simple thin, light bridge that comes on the Mid-Mo/Big Muddies is part of the magic...
Gregooch
Dec-15-2013, 7:35pm
Give him a call, It's a worthwhile phone call ;).
Phone 573-698-3300
email swingdog@bigmuddymandolin.com
make sure you put the word mandolin in the subject line
*** mahogany necks...
I e mailed Mike and asked him a few questions about the mandolin. It was built in 2008 and interestingly he did not do the art work on it so the original owner must have had it done. He does have various bridges available at no charge if I decide I need oneo but it seems to be fine with the one that's on it for now. he said that it has Spruce top, Bolivian Rosewood (santos) back and sides, ebony fretboard/bridge, mahogany neck.
Loretta Callahan
Dec-16-2013, 12:33am
I have a Big Muddy M-4 and can attest to how awesome it is. As far as the website goes, Mike had a business person/friend come in and re-tool things. That's when I noticed that the website went South as far as I'm concerned. I loved the old website. Can't stand the new one .... but I adore Mike Dulak. He's the best.
That whole "fraudlent" thing is simply a result of web designer or IT person who is too lazy to do their "due diligence" Annoying, but safe as far as Big Muddy is concerned.
Why all the problems getting on the Big Muddy website. Does anyone know what's going on with that? I get warning messages every time I try to pull it up that say this site is not trusted etc?
bratsche
Dec-16-2013, 3:45pm
Years ago I talked to Mike about putting an adjustable bridge on my Big Muddy and he advised against it. Mike did a lot of experimenting to come up with what works best, the simple thin, light bridge that comes on the Mid-Mo/Big Muddies is part of the magic...
That is very interesting. All of my flat-top instruments have one piece bridges, though the MidMo/Big Muddy bridges are the thinnest. Now whenever I see a maker of a flattop style instrument who uses an adjustable style bridge, it always makes me wonder ..."why?" ... and makes me think that if I ever were to get one of these others, I would simply have to at the very least try a one piece bridge on it before deciding one way or another, since where I live, there is really no reason for adjusting a bridge once you've fine-tuned it initially.
bratsche
Regarding damage possibilities of the wood burning... I believe that this woodburning art work had been offered by Mid-Missouri for quite some time in the past.. I would doubt that it has done any structural or sound damage.
All of my flat-top instruments have one piece bridges, though the MidMo/Big Muddy bridges are the thinnest. Now whenever I see a maker of a flattop style instrument who uses an adjustable style bridge, it always makes me wonder ..."why?" ... and makes me think that if I ever were to get one of these others, I would simply have to at the very least try a one piece bridge on it before deciding one way or another, since where I live, there is really no reason for adjusting a bridge once you've fine-tuned it initially.
bratsche
Many folks obsess about having an adjustable bridges when, if the mando is well built and stable, there is little need for an adjustable bridge. The only time I needed to adjust my bridge on my Mid-Missouri was when a broken steam pipe drenched my mando for a day. Even then all I had to do was shim the bridge to counter the now sunken top and it plays fine again,,, although it doesn't look so hot.
I am totally psyched. I am going to get my M-11 tarted up with some wood burning art. I know just the artist.
Tuuli
Dec-19-2013, 12:42pm
This was my man do and the wood burning did not affect the tone at all.
Someone I know did the woodburning for me and I cautioned her about going deep into the wood. The top needs to be sanded first if you're going to try this because the oil finish is a problem otherwise.
I may have another one done with less on it so it isn't so busy-looking if I can find one cheap enough. I found the man do was too quiet for my bluegrass use but I miss it for playing by myself because the high strings on my Summit A with F holes is almost harsh on my ears.