eBay Loar Tailpiece Cover

[goaty76]

http://bit.ly/1f5f71t

This tailpiece cover just ended on eBay. I could use a Loar tailpiece cover so this intrigued me. I ended up not bidding on it because of a few oddities with it. It lacked the decorative lines above and below "The Gibson". Also the outer perimeter engraving seemed to be placed slightly further in than on other examples I've seen. I thought it was probably a reproduction. Seeing the low bid price I felt others probably agreed. It ended at $137.81 which now has me a bit confused. That price seems a bit high for a repro but cheaper than I would expect an original to fetch. So what are people's thoughts on this? Original or not? Anyone here get it?

Phil

PS
I hope my link works. It's the first time I've done it from my phone. If it doesn't I'll fix it later or someone else can post a link or pic.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Repro, no doubt. It's made of brass (note the yellow edges in the ebay picture), the engraving is too deep and, as you pointed out, it lacks the decorative lines. An original would be from nickel silver. An original (with worn-off silver plating) would look like this:110808

[Gary Hedrick]

If you want a really good repro then order one from Darryl . When I bought my 1/12/23 the cover was missing in action replaced with a gold mid 60's one.

Darryl makes as good a replacement as you will find.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I saw that auction. The engraving is double lined and done by machine or possibly stamped, not hand engraved

[JFDilmando]

No fear of misidentifying that one as authentic. Far far afield in style, script, just about everything....
I asked Darryl if he'd consider doing another cover, and he said that he wasn't really geared up at the time.... He might think about it again, but..... I asked again, but not enough interest, way too busy, etc.....

Maybe of there where several Loar folks who "needed/wanted" a good cover, there might be a critical mass there that might persuade Darryl to consider turning out a few ?

[Tim W]

I can hand engrave one for you that will look period correct. I've cut some made by Prucha I think but they're made of brass and then silver or gold plated. That one in the auction was done on a pantograph type engraver you find at jewelry stores.

I do them by hand the way Gibson did in the 20's. As for the depth of cut, that will vary some as these are not a stencil they are drawn on the surface and then cut with a flat graver polished to a mirror finish. The outline is wriggle cut with a flat just like you see on trombones, trumpets and the like.


http://bit.ly/1f5f71t

This tailpiece cover just ended on eBay. I could use a Loar tailpiece cover so this intrigued me. I ended up not bidding on it because of a few oddities with it. It lacked the decorative lines above and below "The Gibson". Also the outer perimeter engraving seemed to be placed slightly further in than on other examples I've seen. I thought it was probably a reproduction. Seeing the low bid price I felt others probably agreed. It ended at $137.81 which now has me a bit confused. That price seems a bit high for a repro but cheaper than I would expect an original to fetch. So what are people's thoughts on this? Original or not? Anyone here get it?

Phil

PS
I hope my link works. It's the first time I've done it from my phone. If it doesn't I'll fix it later or someone else can post a link or pic.

[Darryl Wolfe]

No fear of misidentifying that one as authentic. Far far afield in style, script, just about everything....
I asked Darryl if he'd consider doing another cover, and he said that he wasn't really geared up at the time.... He might think about it again, but..... I asked again, but not enough interest, way too busy, etc.....

Maybe of there where several Loar folks who "needed/wanted" a good cover, there might be a critical mass there that might persuade Darryl to consider turning out a few ?

I actually have the materials to do this. I just have not ever gotten geared up from the fabrication point to make it worth while. The 3-4 I did in the past were 100% hand made right down to cutting the top edge with a jewelers saw. The 3-4 I made were from solid sterling silver.

I have now located and stocked up on Nickel silver (German silver) This looks virtually identical to silver plated except that it is solid and more cost effective. It polishes out just like the originals but does not wear off.

I also sent out the pieces for hand engraving. I tried three different guys on this and found one that had the eye for doing it correctly. Each persons work has a look of it's own, a signature as it may be. The engraving alone is in the range of $50-$75. When I did the original 3-4 it was $6 for the sterling silver and about $25 for the engravinging and I sold them for $75-$100 a pop.

I may have to check in with Tim W regarding the graving task. I have gravers, but I just can't get the technique down. I can do the wriggle but that's it

So, in summary, I do plan to make some as soon as I can devise a jig to help me bend the sides accurately and repetitively. The original ones I did by marking and scoring the bend points and hammering and banging in a vise and then hoping they fit right. Get my point.

I've tried contacting Prucha to fabricate the covers from my material, but never heard back. If any one has an "in" with him, let me know.

dw

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I have now located and stocked up on Nickel silver (German silver) This looks virtually identical to silver plated except that it is solid and more cost effective. It polishes out just like the originals but does not wear off.
dw

Darryl, did I understand it correctly, the originals are from silver plated nickel silver, aren't they?

[Darryl Wolfe]

Originals are silver plated. I believe the base metal is the same hard nickel silver material that the standard period covers are made of. However, the nickel silver material I acquired is a much higher grade softer material. The material I have will polish out nearly identical to silver.

[goaty76]

Thanks for confirming what I originally thought. It was just when the price started going up I thought maybe I had missed something even though I knew nothing on it looked quite right. Out of curiosity what do you think an original would go for these days? I know that would depend on where you get it so maybe we could speculate a dealer price and also a private collector to collector price.

Phil

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I remember one on ebay in 2006 going for over 5k.

[shylock3]

Thanks for confirming what I originally thought. It was just when the price started going up I thought maybe I had missed something even though I knew nothing on it looked quite right. Out of curiosity what do you think an original would go for these days? I know that would depend on where you get it so maybe we could speculate a dealer price and also a private collector to collector price.

Phil

I don't think 2 grand would buy an original , I would happily pay that for one-probably more. There were several of these look a likes popped up a couple years back. I got all excited thinking they might could be real, and bought a few of them. They're not. I had 2 of them gold plated, but they just don't have the right look. Charlie Derrington came up with one, I guess Darrell or someone made it.

[ellisppi]

if anybody is thinking of having Tim W engrave a TP, I assure you he will do a great job

[chris]

2 Grand would be a good deal

[JFDilmando]

One thing I have seen with good repros….. it is hard to really get "antiquing" done right…. you can't put a shiny, new cover on a beautiful old Loar…. or at least I can't. It just seems it doesn't look right…. not talking about faking to deceive, talking about what looks "period right", vs what is out of place…. I have seen several good engraved pieces, that just failed in the "make it look old" department…. I have one.

[f5loar]

I know of several Loars that the TP looks brand new with no signs of tarnish or aging.

[chris]

If you ever want to tarnish silver real fast, Put it in a bag with a cool hard boiled egg. Keep an eye on it,8-12 hrs will get it pretty tarnished.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Ken Waltham had this to say about tarnished Loar tailpieces: "Some Loar t/p covers wear the silver off, others, primarily '24's are "German silver", they seem to be almost like a Sterling silver, and do not wear much at all. My '24 is this way. Very shiney." The link: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?21340-anybody-need-an-original-Loar-F-5-tailpiece-cover/page2

[Darryl Wolfe]

Here is one of the sterling silver TP's I made 15 years ago. These will tarnish darker in areas very quickly once installed and the mandolin is played.

[Gary Hedrick]

The one that you made for me "tarnished" nicely and folks could not tell the difference from an original ....I did leave your label on it for the sake of originality. I do tend to view the issues of replaced bridge tops, tailpiece covers and broken hardware of pickguards as being part and parcel of playing an instrument over many years. I suppose if you are paying top, top dollar for a Loar then you have the right to have it all and the case and instrument be pristine but 90 years is a long time to expect "virginity" in an instrument. So which is it....investment or tool?

[Timbofood]

I will second you on the "Virginal aspect" of instruments, Gary. Honest wear makes me happy! Velveteen Rabbit syndrome and all that.

[f5loar]

I replaced all the replaceable parts on mine to preserve the originals. Same as saving the case from more aging. You should never carry an original vintage prewar case out to your next gig.

[Timbofood]

Sound logic Tom, as long as the goodies stay with it to maintain originality no harm no foul. Maintaining playability with non original parts makes perfect sense, especially with respect to the case. We do treat these instruments almost as though they were human. They are, indeed, alive. The regard for their health and safety reminds me of the Hippocratic Oath... "First, do no harm."

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I replaced all the replaceable parts on mine to preserve the originals. Same as saving the case from more aging. You should never carry an original vintage prewar case out to your next gig.

Amazing how different approaches can be, I leave that Loar case at home to save the mando from aging, rather than the case. And my dear little brother keeps carrying his 1945 D-28 in the old case in order to save his shoulder from aging. :))

[mandroid]

I always wonder if these are stripped, just for parts selling short-term Profits .. what a shame ..