tailpiece design and string breakage

[erick]

I have recently noticed that if I loosen the strings to clean them or to raise the bridge, with certain tailpieces, the E string is much more likely to break when I re-tighten the string to pitch. The two tailpieces that have given me the most trouble are the Allen cast style ( found on Monteleone and other makers), and the Collings. Interestingly, when I got fed up enough with the Collings tailpiece and had Bill James make me one, the problem went away.

The problem as I observe it, is that for some reason these, tailpieces can cause the E string to twist, either on the tailpiece itself, or at the string post, because invariably the break is at one of these two places. I have tried using pencil graphite and nutsauce to reduce friction at the bridge and nut, but this doesn't seem to make a difference.

ANone else had this problem? Did you find a solution to it?
Eric Kilburn

[Ivan Kelsall]

I've had cast tailpieces on both my mandolins for 9 years & i've never had a string break as you described once. It's hard to imagine the string rotating,as the loop around the string post on the tailpiece would prevent that happening ie. you'd have to remove the loop from the string post,twist it & then put it back. Even then, as long as the string was still straight,it wouldn't break. It might be that after loosening the string,the string could possibly 'kink' at the tuner end & break when you retighten it (them). It's certainly a puzzle. If it was a general fault with 'cast' tailpieces,then i'm sure we'd have had a lot of irate Collings (& other) owners posting on here,& we'd most likely have heard from Bill Collings himself,
Ivan

[Tavy]

The tailpiece design should make absolutely no difference to whether the string breaks at the tuner or not.

That said, cast tailpieces (or the archtop guitar style) are a pain if you want to actually take the strings right off because you have to straighten them out to get them through the hole in the tailpiece - and that's usually fatal for the string!

[mandroid]

My strings break from metal fatigue , but only after making a lot of music-sound vibrating them.

E goes first , because its thinner and pulled more tightly to reach the E pitch.

.... breaks usually at the Bridge.


I never do as you describe,
I have recently noticed that if I loosen the strings to clean them

[Mandobart]

I never intentionally loosen strings, except when I'm replacing them. I learned a few years ago that if you start loosening strings, and you don't loosen them all fairly uniformly, the one(s) you don't loosen may break. As you loosen strings, the neck relaxes and moves back a little, which puts more tension on the unloosened string(s). The opposite happens when I'm tuning up after a string change; as I raise a pair up to pitch, the others go a little flat.

When changing strings, I first detune all strings a half step, before removing the first pair. This prevents breaking the remaining ones, and possibly letting the bridge move. I change only one pair at a time, and tune them up a half-step flat again, then bring them all up together slowly.

[DougC]

I have the solution. At least it is something that is often overlooked on mandolins and violins.

The post that the string winds around, can have a sharp edge at the little hole where the string goes through. Either from wear or just sharp from manufacture, it causes little e strings to break all the time.

[Mandobart]

I have the solution. At least it is something that is often overlooked on mandolins and violins.

The post that the string winds around, can have a sharp edge at the little hole where the string goes through. Either from wear or just sharp from manufacture, it causes little e strings to break all the time.

The roughness at the hole need never break a string, if you first wind it around the post 3 - 5 times before passing the string through the hole. I've never had a string break there, even on cheap mandos with very rough shafts. Also makes getting the old string off much easier than the new school popular "lock" method. I would like to see the wooden violin peg that could break a steel string due to roughness....

[sunburst]

I try not to ever loosen E-strings and re-tighten them because they break too easily. In fact, it is common to break at least one e-string in the process of setting up a mandolin because they often have to be loosened for adjustments. Perhaps some types of tailpieces cause more string breakage than others when loosening and re-tightening strings, but regardless of what style you have, save the cleaning for string change time and that should solve the problem.

[Mike Bunting]

I try not to ever loosen E-strings and re-tighten them because they break too easily. In fact, it is common to break at least one e-string in the process of setting up a mandolin because they often have to be loosened for adjustments. Perhaps some types of tailpieces cause more string breakage than others when loosening and re-tightening strings, but regardless of what style you have, save the cleaning for string change time and that should solve the problem.

Yes, the only time I remember breaking an E string is when I've tuned down to D in deadman's tuning and later tuned it back to E from the D.

[stevejay]

The roughness at the hole need never break a string, if you first wind it around the post 3 - 5 times before passing the string through the hole. I've never had a string break there, even on cheap mandos with very rough shafts. Also makes getting the old string off much easier than the new school popular "lock" method. I would like to see the wooden violin peg that could break a steel string due to roughness....


I have had better results with the wrap method over locking as well. It's also easier as long as the wrap doesn't uncoil, which is the reason some started locking it down with the bend I imagine. I you do a bend using the lock method and it happens to unwrap, this won't bode well and will most likely break. For some the wrap method is easier and more intuitive.

[peter.coombe]

As John says, don't loosen the E strings. These are the easiest to break, although I also sometimes break the A string of FT74 strings I use when setting up a mandolin. I have never experienced string breakage at the tailpiece of an Allen or James tailpiece, but did break a few on the stamped Gibson style tailpiece at the loop when I was using those tailpieces. I always break strings at the string post where the string first winds onto the post, not at the hole. This is caused by wear on the string when loosening and re-tightening for setup work. Latest mandolin I have just finished I snapped 2 E strings at the string post while setting up the E strings. Can't remember the last time I broke a string when playing normally. I hate it when people lock the string on the string post. It is unnecessary, and is a PITA to get the string off the string post when changing strings. Enough winds around the string post and pull through the hole and it won't slip. I can play a whole gig without needing to re-tune.