Wanted: Prewar Martin D45 & '30s Martin D28 [Archive]

Gary Hedrick

Dec-08-2013, 9:27am

Don't normally comment on the ads in Café but this one really caught my eye.

Whew! now that is a heavy hitter......just throw a late 30's Advanced Jumbo in the mix and you would have the trifecta of acoustic guitars!!

goaty76

Dec-08-2013, 10:07am

Price wise the AJ doesn't come close to the the other two. The rare/cool factor of it though is up there with them.

Phil

Jim

Dec-08-2013, 10:12am

Yep, those are the guitars I want too:grin:

William Smith

Dec-08-2013, 10:31am

That dude must've won the lottery, good for him, the 28's are out there but well with what 91-92? D-45's that might be a problem for him to find? Best O' Luck on his quest now why can't I win anything except this bout of pneumonia that I can't get rid of!

Gary Hedrick

Dec-08-2013, 11:11am

Price wise the AJ doesn't come close to the the other two. The rare/cool factor of it though is up there with them.

Phil

Not an expert on guitar prices but I thought the Brazilian rosewood AJ's of the late 30's went for $35k to 45k and there are prewar bones that can be bought for somewhere in that range (they are rough but can be bought) or am I full of beans and apple butter??

Here is a unofficial Martin Guitar Forum ad for an AJ

Please note that my preference is to do this transition locally (Philly/DE area) to avoid risks & hazards of shipping something this valuable. The selling price is $55K which is considerably less than the current appraisal value. Please contact me if seriously interested…

sunburst

Dec-08-2013, 11:53am

Yeah, rosewood AJs are rare and the ones that are in good shape bring high prices. 'Bones are plentiful by comparison, and were working guitars in many cases, so they are available in all conditions from beat-up players to near mint collectibles. Prewar 45s are a little different. They were expensive when new, so relatively few were sold, they were so fancy that many have been well cared for so the condition of existing ones is generally good... I've only seen and played two prewar 45s, IIRC, but then again, I've only seen and played one rosewood AJ.
Anyway, with the requisite amount of cash at the ready, you can pick through herringbones to find the one you want, but landing an AJ or a 45, that can take some work. Sure would be fun quest... right after that winning lotto number!

FL Dawg

Dec-08-2013, 1:48pm

Prewar 45s are a little different. They were expensive when new, so relatively few were sold, they were so fancy that many have been well cared for so the condition of existing ones is generally good...

It's not often that I can disagree with a man of your distinguished experience :)

I can't claim to be an expert on original D-45's either, except through fantasizing about owning one.

It's just that most of the ones I've seen offered up for public sale have some pretty serious issues. Some have survived relatively unscathed but a lot of these were working instruments owned by radio & Opry performers. Martin liked to refinish Style 45 instruments when they came back in for warranty work.

Here's a couple examples to kick off the fun!

http://www.gruhn.com/features/wilmalee/wilmalee.html

I'm pretty sure this Nashvillian pickguard ain't factory :)

110347

Gary Hedrick

Dec-08-2013, 1:59pm

I was reading the front page of the Indianapolis Star and voila' seems Jim Irsay the owner of the Colts just bought a D45 this year for his guitar collection. This fellow is a heavy duty collector...all sorts of unique guitars ....former Beatles guitars etc etc..

sunburst

Dec-08-2013, 2:06pm

It's true, Martin liked getting the fancy instruments into the hands of prominent country stars, and the stars did use them on stage and "apply" signs of use and wear, and Martin did refinish nearly everything that came in for repair for much of their history, but even the roughest D-45s I've seen look pretty darned good compared to some of the rougher D-28s. Holes to mount sound hole pickups, holes in the top for knobs (to adjust the sound hole pickup), holes in the lower bout side for wires to the sound hole pickup, repaired and un-repaired body cracks (and worst of all, poorly repaired body cracks), bolts through neck heels, split pegheads and on and on.
The one I'm working on now is not prewar, but it is a 'bone. Here's the starting point...
110348
There may well be D45s with this kind of wear, but it's almost (but not quite) typical of player-grade D-28s. In other words, it's not that D-45s were treated so well, it's just that D-28 were treated so bad!;)

barney 59

Dec-08-2013, 4:07pm

Not an expert on guitar prices but I thought the Brazilian rosewood AJ's of the late 30's went for $35k to 45k and there are prewar bones that can be bought for somewhere in that range (they are rough but can be bought) or am I full of beans and apple butter??

Here is a unofficial Martin Guitar Forum ad for an AJ

Please note that my preference is to do this transition locally (Philly/DE area) to avoid risks & hazards of shipping something this valuable. The selling price is $55K which is considerably less than the current appraisal value. Please contact me if seriously interested…

I played one that retrofret had. That AJ has a Martin scale fretboard. The only Gibson that I know about that does. Consequently Martin dweebs, such as myself, think that this is the best Gibson guitar ever. I believe the price was $40,000 and it had issues but it was a wonderful sounding instrument. I know where a 1930 OM 28 is hiding that is in such good condition that when I saw it I thought it must be a brand new reproduction. The seller is only asking a little north of $200,000 for it, if that's any help.

Gary Hedrick

Dec-08-2013, 5:00pm

I too have had a chance to play one of those AJ's and a prewar 28 at the same time.....both are powerful guitars.

Also didn't Red Smiley have a D-45 that he played.....now that one might have had some wear on it

f5loar

Dec-08-2013, 5:30pm

Red had two 45s. Wilma Lee had more than 6 including Charlie Monroe's 45. Sounds like Carol Lee was unloading the junk ones and holding on to the goodins' . There are more 45s with issues than not but the ones without issues don't change hands very often.

barney 59

Dec-08-2013, 7:04pm

My guess is that if you stuff a quarter of a million dollars in a shopping bag your likely going to come up with a very good D-45 in fairly short order --similarly as difficult as finding a Loar with that much in your pocket.

Buck

Dec-08-2013, 7:07pm

Most (nearly all) production AJ's were IRW, not BRW as previously assumed. That hasn't changed the price though. Still, a 30's AJ is about 1/3-1/2 the value of a '34-'38 D-28 in comparable condition.

William Smith

Dec-08-2013, 7:21pm

Prewar advanced jumbo Gibsons were Indian Rosewood back and sides? I thaught they were all Brazillian the same as the D-28 bones?

Buck

Dec-08-2013, 8:38pm

Everyone assumed they were, but for a few repairmen who questioned the look, smell, texture, and feel. Ultimately, lab tests were done on some samples to confirm the species. It turned out to be IRW, as were all other Gibson rosewood guitars from the mid-late 1930's. Regardless, they're fantastic guitars, scarce and among the best Gibson guitars I've ever played.

Gary Hedrick

Dec-08-2013, 8:53pm

Well I'll be darned.......learn something from the Café just about every time I read it.

barney 59

Dec-08-2013, 11:54pm

The way I heard it was that Gibson did not use Brazilian after 1936 and the AJ was I believe introduced in '36. Very small window for a Brazilian one if that is true. I do believe the one I played at retrofret was a 1936 and was indeed Brazilian.

almeriastrings

Dec-09-2013, 12:26am

Here's Red's.....

http://www.chiefnoda.com/pict/pwd45/index.html

Now living in Japan. I'd pass on the extra headstock bling.....:(

Jim Garber

Dec-09-2013, 9:56am

j. condino

Dec-09-2013, 11:04am

Darryl Wolfe

Dec-09-2013, 1:03pm

sunburst

Dec-09-2013, 1:07pm

That's a '45 I have on the bench right now, Darryl. Sounds... OK, nothing special. Even with the mediocre top wood worn through, it's worth more on the market than anything I can build!

Darryl Wolfe

Dec-09-2013, 1:48pm

I guess there are exceptions...generally speaking the red spruce/taper brace is an astounding combination

f5loar

Dec-09-2013, 2:25pm

1937 to early 1939 were really good D45s. Of the 40's the best two I've played is the one Marty Stuart has and the other Red Smiley one. Both are killers especially in the hands of their masters. A really good all original wide neck (pre-1940) D45 is going to cost you way more than $300K.

Jim Garber

Dec-09-2013, 2:39pm

All that money and effort for a big boomy rosewood guitar. I just played a matched set of '37s recently. I played the D28 for exactly 3 chords and then gave it back to the owner, but the D18 I could not put down! I'll take a '37 D18 any day over one of those rosewood guitars....

I agree, James. I have owned quite a few nice vintage BRW guitars including a 1928 Martin 0042, but I always pick up my mahogany ones. I used to own Martins but ended up leaning more to Gibsons. However, if I found the right D-18 at the right time, I might grab it.

Hendrik Ahrend

Dec-09-2013, 4:57pm

That's why I prefer the taper braced '45 D-28's

Just those would be my vote, too. Love my brother's. That one's got it all, not boomy sounding (unlike many scalloped earlier ones), just beautifully balanced. And they are still Adirondack, which seems to have changed by '46. And besides, Jimmy Martin played one.

Gary Hedrick

Dec-09-2013, 6:16pm

Frankly, if I had the bucks I would go for this 1942 SJ (http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/71594). I have a 1950 one that is a killer in mahogany and my main flattop. That one is about as worn as mine but older and rosewood -- I like that. Who needs pristine when you have the tone?

Jim, I have my father's 1958 SJ....a real warhorse of hours of square dance picking and even a show with Bill Monroe. It too sounds great and is far from pristine but what a history!!

Gary Hedrick

Dec-09-2013, 6:19pm

All that money and effort for a big boomy rosewood guitar. I just played a matched set of '37s recently. I played the D28 for exactly 3 chords and then gave it back to the owner, but the D18 I could not put down! I'll take a '37 D18 any day over one of those rosewood guitars....

j.
www.condino.com

Yep, I would agree. The mahogany guitars of that era sure have a certain balanced tone about them and most of them are light as a feather....even the early 50's D-18 are just plain wonderful to my ears...

j. condino

Dec-10-2013, 8:27pm

Featherweight indeed- the iconic sub-3lb powerhouse of a guitar. I think back and almost cry about how much I disrespected those things when they were $400 during the disco years...

I always liked that sunburst '38 D45 that Don Teeter had on the cover of his first acoustic guitar repair book. It was a wreck before he rebuilt it. I used to sit on his back porch and play it when I was 19 and stationed a few miles down the road at Tinker AFB. Even with the missing fingertip and the custom prosthetic extension that he made, Don was a pretty good picker and liked to goof off in the afternoons and play a few tunes. Don took a liking to me as a kid who would come by the shop and sold me his old National tri cone - a 1930 style 3 "Lily of the Valley"- for $75 just before I shipped off to Japan. Is anybody holding on to a highly custom engraved #930?

As a little sneak preview, I'm currently working on what we are hoping will be a very accurate full sized blueprint for the Guild of American Luthiers coming out approx. this summer of a '37 D-18 & D-28. Hopefully a lot of guitar builders will put it to good use. The Loar era snakehead plan is almost done and will be out this spring!

j.
www.condino.com

almeriastrings

Dec-11-2013, 12:02am

I'm also a big fan of those war-time, taper-braced 1945 instruments, especially the 18-series. Among the lightest guitars Martin ever made, right down to the white plastic tuner buttons and ebony neck reinforcements. I have two of them, a D-18 and a 000-18, both with their original brown Lifton cases (though they live in Caltons when out and about). The D-18 is very, very similar to Doc Watson's (now owned and played by Jack Lawrence). Really loud, clean sounding, punchy guitars. Much under-rated for a long while, only now are people beginning to wake up to their uniqueness.